F/A Attrition ONLY

[L1011Ret]

I've been told the number of FA's necessary to support an MD80 is 20-21, 27-28 for a 757. So 50 MD80's grounded should result in about 1000 heads. 3000 would mean 150, or half the 80 fleet. I find that scenario a bit unlikely, especially all in one fell swoop. There is no magic number above which airlines can no longer do business. Prices will have to rise to reflect the cost of doing business, and that's already happening. A lot of people are going to continue to fly in a lot of airplanes to a lot of places, and I see AA being a part of that.

If aircraft are to be grounded, I think it's much more likely to be a gradual process; speeding up parking of the oldest 80's and looking for international opportunities for the newer 737's coming on line.

The last big furlough in July 2003 was a result of a massive concessionary contract change, and resulted in 3250 furloughs. The company had no problem getting 1350 FA's to voluntarily take a year off. The problem with AA's OVL program is that it isn't open ended. The 1350 had to come back the next year. UA, on the other hand, allowed people to stay out as long as there were people on the street. They also had a recall bypass option. AA should have both those things; they're strictly no cost items and save jobs for people who want to fly. In the event there should be a furlough, those things should be APFA's number one concern.

MK

Thanks Mark for providing reasoned speculation rather than hysterical opinions and rumors.

 

[eolesen]

Saving union Jobs, ........and.......Seniority....ARE the "2" most important things to organized labor

Funny, I always thought one of the most important things was to to preserve quality of life for the members. Saving jobs at the expense of qualty of life or compensation doesn't accomplish much in the end.

I'm "rubbing my rabbits foot" like crazy !!

Oh, there's an image I wish I hadn't read....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Funny, I always thought one of the most important things was to to preserve quality of life for the members. Saving jobs at the expense of qualty of life or compensation doesn't accomplish much in the end.



Oh, there's an image I wish I hadn't read....

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:wub: :blush:

OK .."E", now that we got the "rabbits foot rubbing" out of the way !

As to your earlier MISTAKE, ....Seniority, is what it is..............."LAST IN................FIRST OUT" !!!

I can only speak for myself.
When I joined ANY union, I FULLY expected to get laid off FIRST,.......W I T H O U T ..ANY loss($ or otherwise) to those senior to me.
And you know why I didn't mind,..........because it was a FAIR system, because I knew that one day, I'd be high up on the Seniority list, and I'd wasn't about to sacrifice ANYTHING to those below me.

It's called PAYING DUES, and I don't mean union Dues.

AGAIN, a VERY fair system !!!!!!!


What also factors into this whole thing, is something that we ALL subscribe to, and that is,...........In life, timing is(most times) EVERYTHING.

???

 

[eolesen]

Never disputed seniority being what it is, but I still maintain that quality of life is more important than protecting jobs at any cost...

 

[Skymess]

Never disputed seniority being what it is, but I still maintain that quality of life is more important than protecting jobs at any cost...

I'm with you. I'd rather be furloughed than work under undesirable conditions for all.

 

[nbmcg01]

I'm with you. I'd rather be furloughed than work under undesirable conditions for all.

Union principles 101
Protect jobs
Enhance quality of life through wage and work rule gains

Protecting jobs has many meanings
Enhance quality of life does too

You can't have one without the other (and be a good union)

 

[Skymess]

Union principles 101
Protect jobs
Enhance quality of life through wage and work rule gains

Protecting jobs has many meanings
Enhance quality of life does too

You can't have one without the other (and be a good union)

Well, welcome to the world of the APFA. Side letters of agreement that chip at our quality of work life in order to save the company money and enhance mgmt bonuses.

That current fiasco of a joke of a proffer in IDF takes the cake. Yes, add more people to the headcount when they currently have too many.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well, welcome to the world of the APFA. Side letters of agreement that chip at our quality of work life in order to save the company money and enhance mgmt bonuses.

That current fiasco of a joke of a proffer in IDF takes the cake. Yes, add more people to the headcount when they currently have too many.

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"mess",

I'm with you, because when I was active, I DETESTED SLOA !!!!!!!

Then again, since it is "IDF", I'm not surprised.

Why to I get a funny feeling that there were an unusual number of '93 SCABS, in IDF (then, and or now) ?

Anyone got the SCAB list breakdown from '93 ?

 

[eolesen]

Why to I get a funny feeling that there were an unusual number of '93 SCABS, in IDF (then, and or now) ?

Anyone got the SCAB list breakdown from '93 ?

Which base had more scabs is probably irrelevent, Bears, since so many FA's commute from other states. In other words, I don't think you can grind the "Texans and Okies don't know what unionism is" axe here...

Plus, it was 15 years ago, and it's off topic for attrition...

 

[jimntx]

That current fiasco of a joke of a proffer in IDF takes the cake. Yes, add more people to the headcount when they currently have too many.

Yes, if you look at the flying assigned to IDF vs the "active" base roster, they have too many f/as. However, if you look at the flying assigned to IDF vs. the number of those "active" f/as willing to get on an airplane that contains passengers, you will see the need for the proffer. Same true at DFW, ORD, IOR, LAX, LAX-I, MIA, IMA...wherever senior f/as are found.

 

[MiAAmi]

You have to remember there are alot of high time flyers that depend on other f/as to drop their trips. Most of the time it is the more senior people dropping. Without those people dropping there wouldnt be any trips for people to pick up. This ability to drop or pick up is a very nice part of the job. I dont think people are going to want to give up that flexability, its a nice perk.

 

[The Goose]

Never disputed seniority being what it is, but I still maintain that quality of life is more important than protecting jobs at any cost...

Yep, but when you have an outfit like the Totally Worthless Union, every job not "saved" is dues money down the drain.

 

[L1011Ret]

You have to remember there are alot of high time flyers that depend on other f/as to drop their trips. Most of the time it is the more senior people dropping. Without those people dropping there wouldnt be any trips for people to pick up. This ability to drop or pick up is a very nice part of the job. I dont think people are going to want to give up that flexability, its a nice perk.

Have to agree, my spouse has picked up some great trips from HIBOARD

 

[Flyboy4u]

Have to agree, my spouse has picked up some great trips from HIBOARD

Well I have to now chime in here...I have to disagree KP...and BTW...Welcome back...U will soon know how the F/A's at AA really work...Yes, they ( the SENIOR F/A's drop their trips every month ) so JR F/A's like urself, ur wife, and me can pickup great trips off of the HIBoard.....However, different scenario here..What if those senior F/A's had no choice, but to actually work those trips instead of dropping them? Hmmm..How many would retire, and, or, quit? That's the problem with what's actually going on....Skymess and everyone else on here likes the "Flexibility", but it ( the Flexiblity) has come to a point, where that, is the AActual problem....Sure..why would u retire if u can hold the best trips, and most desireable? Keep ur perks at AA, and let some other sucker fly a good trip. Knowing, that when times get tough, and "the other job" you are working goes down the toilet, or ur "Rich" husband, who has been actually paying all of your bills for that past 20 years ,runs off with the next 18year old you can come back to the job, that you have always wanted, and work. Seniority had its place, back in the day when Aviation first took flight, but we are now in the 21st century, and still working with the those who started this profession. It's now time to actually look at those who work, who have pride in what they do, and who "Actually" need this job to survive.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Which base had more scabs is probably irrelevent, Bears, since so many FA's commute from other states. In other words, I don't think you can grind the "Texans and Okies don't know what unionism is" axe here...

Plus, it was 15 years ago, and it's off topic for attrition...

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COOL IT.."E" !

Your NO longer a moderator !!

If my "point" about 93' SCABS, as it relates to the 2 DFW bases..........HURTS,....well what can I say,.....except..."It IS what it IS" !

SCAB STINK, is worse than running over a SKUNK, with both front tires, in the heat of summertime !