Flight Attendant Attrition Rate

[Garfield1966]

I do not think Opt II is all that big of a deal. I work the domestic side and the Opt II list is short. Very rarely do I have anyone who picks up seq. If they do, it is usually at the end of the month when they are trying to get their final flying in. The amount of Opt II being flown in the system is minimal as far as I can tell. If we are running short, we cancel the extras, look for a move or plot a reserve.

I tend to agree with Miaami. Recalls will happen when they happen. Until it becomes uneconomical to fly at min FAA crew, AA will continue as normal. Rumor is in Crew Skd that we might see about 600 or so back in Oct/Nov. Heard that usually about 35% don’t come back and about another 30-40% of what’s left go sick.


Guess things could be worse, we could be at Delta, United or US Air.

 

[ArtTang]

jsn25911 writes:

Maybe I am confused but I thought: [...]

I respond:

No, you got it right, jsn25911. HIBOARD is where f/as electronically post any trip they wish to drop (or trade) to another f/a looking for extra time. In other words, HIBOARD is where f/as drop and find trips to pick up FROM EACH OTHER. This is the ultimate win-win situation because both parties benefit without adversely affecting furloughees. Some f/as fly option II without understanding or even considering how they are affecting their furloughed colleagues, but they are indeed impeding the recall of furloughed f/as, regardless of how anyone tries to spin it.

By the way, for those who have access to company DECS, you may access which bases have option II flying available (it seems to be avaliable on a daily basis which indicates to me that there is an ongoing manning shortage) by entering RF8803 CCS. Also, if you wish to view the list of f/as who are seeking to fly option II on any given day, you simply enter NND/MIA/21sep/II (this will show the list of MIA domestic f/as seeking to fly option II). For international, you'd simply enter NNI/JFK/21sep/II. I realize most of you have these codes as they are in the public domain.
Hope this answers your questions.


Art Tang
MIA

 

[jimntx]

II tend to agree with Miaami. Recalls will happen when they happen. Until it becomes uneconomical to fly at min FAA crew, AA will continue as normal. Rumor is in Crew Skd that we might see about 600 or so back in Oct/Nov. Heard that usually about 35% don’t come back and about another 30-40% of what’s left go sick.

[post="182417"][/post]​

Actually, Garfield the company hit it almost exactly on the recall last 01DEC. According to the company, they build in a 10% cushion to allow for those who refuse recall--i.e., you need 100 f/as, you recall 110.

For the recall 01DEC03, they recalled 390 and had 38 refuse. Can't get much closer than that.

For the recall 01JUL04, the refusal rate was higher. 233 recalled, 47 refusals which is a bit over 20%. But, still nothing like 35%.

In the July recall, there were 2 of the 186 who went immediately to maternity leave (well, they had to do SOMETHING while they were furloughed ). I can't speak to how many go on sick leave immediately after recall. I heard that was a more common occurrence with the f/as coming back from the overage leave on 01JUL.

 

[ArtTang]

I would also agree with Garfield that few f/as fly option II. Most f/as have plenty of choices in HIBOARD and/or know it is not kosher to fly option II while we have colleagues on the street. When we had no furloughees, it was perfectly fine to pick up an option II trip because it didn't adversely affect anyone. Also, I would again respectfully disagree with MiAAmi about the fact that option II is open only on rare occasions. I may be mistaken (it happens a lot), but it seems as if option II is open quite frequently. Again, I think Garfield would have a better assessment of that stat. The RF8803 CCS code will help anyone interested in tracking the trends do so.

Peace,

Art Tang

 

[jimntx]

No, your right about HIBOARD....Its where f/a's can Trip Trade or Drop Trips....I think you are confused about how often Option II is open. Option II is only open occasionally. HIBOARD is avail to f/a's all month long were as Option II is only avail part or none of the month. Usually only around holidays and big weather events is Option II avialable. Sorry to hear about your friend and hopefully the rumors of a recall will happen soon for you two.

[post="182413"][/post]​

The availability of Option II in MIA does not have much relevance to the rest of the system since MIA is overstaffed. As far as your statement that Option II is open only occasionally, perhaps you should talk with some of the f/as in LAX or SLT. Option II was open all month in both bases during August. In SLT it is normal for Option II to open no later than the 10th of the month and remain open the rest of the month. From what I hear SFO and LGA are almost as bad.

 

[MiAAmi]

I can only vouch for what happens here....this month option II was open alot due to Hurricane Frances and Labor Day happening within the same week. Still the company is not cancelling alot of flights due to a shortage of flight attendants. Even if Option II is open all month they still manage to get the flights out. I'm sure that the company is going to try and go as long as possible before the do a recall. If they can run on empty til DEC I'm sure they will try.

 

[Garfield1966]

Actually, Opt II has been open for several month in nearly the entire system. Mainly due to the high reserve hours. MU and OPT II haveb been very shrt for the most part. The last few days have seen the lists a little longer (mainly due to the lost flying caused by the WX in the system). Still, out of 10 people on the list, maybe 3 or 4 end up flying MU and 1 or 2 Opt II. Most want a turn, d/h one way back by 5p so it just does not happen.

I am not sure how this plays in to things but something I just thought of. There are alot of FA's out there (not sure what alot means other than I see alot of skds) who are just dumping their skds and staying on pay roll while not "earning their keep" so to speak. Picking up their trips from hi board while there are FA's on the street seems very unfair to me. Seems to me there are more of them than there are flying Opt II.

 

[jimntx]

If they are picking up trips from HIBOARD, they are still flying AA trips for which AA benefits. As far as "dumping their schedules"...if you mean dropping their trips in open time, will you please tell me how they are managing that? In almost 3 years of flying, I never got that command to work a single time.

Putting all your trips in HIBOARD is a time-honored way of getting rid of trips you don't want to free up your schedule to pick up trips you do want. Now, even at DFW I always held a line I bid--even my first choice one time--except one time. I was "awarded" a Fokker vacation replacement line that a 34 yr Purser bid because she knew she wouldn't have to fly any of the trips. I was able to trade every single trip on that schedule for trips I did want.

Now, I doubt you are talking about people "dumping their trips" and not flying at all because there are consequences today for doing that--namely you lose the company paid portion of your benefits premium.

 

[MiAAmi]

Another way some people manipulate the system is by parking their trips on someone elses schedule then picking up trips on make-up. I'm sure thats not suppose to be done but is pretty widespread.

 

[s80dude]

Using the RF8803 CCS code it looks like the only base with option II open is SFO-I and that is just for NRT trips. Guess the manning must be in line with where they want it for tomorrow. Kind of strange for being so far into the month....

 

[Garfield1966]

I don't know all the details but yesterday I can think of 3 skds that I saw with less then 20 hrs on them at the 20th of the month. They are simply not flying. To me, someone who is merely taking up a sen slot and not flying is far worse than someone who is looking to fly a full month and pick up additional flying.

 

[Garfield1966]

Two things I just thought of.

Saw a FA's skd this month who has not flown since SEP 1998. So there most be some advantage to not working. I would assume that paying your Med through AA is far cheaper than COBRA right?

Also, for those of you who read the DFW papers, there was a "former" AA FA who now sells realestate. Well, we looked up her name, guess what? She is not former. She is current. She is on the unpaid sk and just not flying. So again, there must be an advantge. My guess is medical and flight bennies.

I think that is worse than picking upa trip from Opt II but that's just my opinion.

 

[ArtTang]

Garfield writes:

To me, someone who is merely taking up a seniority slot and not flying is far worse than someone who is looking to fly a full month and pick up additional flying.

I respond:

Garfield, I can understand why one may advance this argument, but allow me to explain why it is not always selfish or inappropriate for a line employee to not work 'full-time' or, as you say, to 'merely take up a seniority slot.' I don't wish to argue with you, but I'd just like to posit another side of the scenario.

Since 9-11, there are so many f/as I know who have been positioning themselves to move on. I know several who are in law school, grad school (like me), nursing school, etc... Mind you, I would never condone a f/a calling in sick in order to pursue such activities. The example you cited of the f/a who sells real estate while being on the sick list would appear to be an isolated individual who is acting against company guidelines for attendance abuse (if, indeed, she is working at another job while on the sick list). But for the vast majority of others, we manage to fly and maintain our crazy schedules while fulfilling our obligations to AA. For example, this past weekend I had an enormous amount of writing to do so I dropped both my trips into highboard and they were, thankfully, picked up. And yes, I would have flown them had they not been picked up. My point, however, is that after MANY years of flying 115-125 hours a month, I finally have enough savings to pursue another career and my hard-earned seniority allows me to do so. By the time I am 45 and I qualify for Article 30 (the last vestige of what we laughingly call an 'early out'), I will have completed my Phd. and will leave AA.

Now, if I didn't drop my trips and attend school, I would not have the option of leaving AA in 3 years and I would continue to take up a 'seniority slot' without wanting to be on it. Because I am working hard toward a new career, as are so many others, I will move on and free up the slot for the individual who really wants to fly.

So, what is my point? Well, it may appear as if we are selfish and are taking advantage of the system, but we are working to better ourselves and to move on. This will ultimately benefit the company by getting senior folks like me off payroll as well as those who wish to return to it. (Is there any real advantage to staying at AA if one does not work? I'm not sure. I know that while I was on educational leave, I was paying $605. a month for my insurance at AA. This is still less than what I would have paid for comparable insurance on the public market, but I doubt it offers enough incentive for many people to stay idle on the senioirty roster without flying. As for the passes, the last couple times I've gone on vacation (to Holland and China) I actually paid for my tickets through Travelocity.com. I rarely use my passes). In summary, I believe that as long as we are responsible for our trips (i.e., cover them when we cannot fly them), then there is no harm done to any furloughed f/as or the company. We are merely dropping our trips to other f/as who desire high-time flying as we work to get out of Dodge, so to speak. In the long run, when we are off the payroll, the company will hopefully effect positive change by recalling more furloughees. Many say the attrition rate is remaining constant among the f/a ranks. I imagine that as fellow f/as make it in other fields (i.e., graduate from law school, get their real estate businesses established, etc...) they will continue to leave.

I do not know if I succeeded in convincingly presenting the other side, but there is always another lens through which to view these matters. I can honestly say that I can understand why Garfield or others may perceive f/as who do not fly as being leeches, and some probably are, but there are many of us who are simply making the job work for us the best way we can within the parameters of the contract so we can eventually move on to a new phase in life.

Art Tang
MIA-D

 

[kirkpatrick]

I do not know if I succeeded in convincingly presenting the other side, but there is always another lens through which to view these matters.

Thank you, Art, for your usual logical, clear-headed analysis. Yours is one of many reasons why people might wish to dump their trips while staying on the seniority list. The real estate agent Garfield referred to may be just "testing the waters" before quitting AA to do it full time.

But the point I'd like to make is, it's YOUR job and your business how much or how little you fly. I knew someone who moved his family to Costa Rica and would drop all his trips one month, then fly double time the next month. This was his way of dealing with the commute. Someone else may be trying out another job, or maybe, for their own reasons, they just don't want to fly a full schedule. They may intend to return to full time flying once the kids are in school or whatever.

The flexibility is one of the reasons we love our jobs. Let's not get caught up in a scenario that if we take a "poison pill;" ie, eliminate this flexibility in the hope that senior people will quit in droves and we'll move up in seniority. You never know what the next year or even next day will bring. Let's keep things as they are.

MK

 

[MiAAmi]

Thank you Art for your perspective. I just wanted to add that sometimes its easy to point fingers and view things as being selfish but in reality its the nature of the job. I can remember when we first started seeing furloughs people saying that the f/a's that drop their trips every month should quit and minimize the number of people on furlough. Thanks Art and Kirkpatrick for shedding light on why thats not really fair. Good luck Art on your future plans