2009 Flight Attendant Attrition

[jimntx]

No, THEY didn't vote that in. That is the apparent attitude of AA flight attendants.

And, AFA is in the midst of a representation effort at DL. Of course, they are not going to say that DL f/as are better off than any represented f/as whether AFA or another union.

 

[FA Mikey]

So the chart is wrong and what you heard through galley gossip is correct? come on Jim I know you can do better than I heard some where.

 

[jimntx]

I have a friend who is a very senior DL f/a. I guess she was lying to me when she told me what she makes per hour. It was substantially above our top of scale. That may have changed in their BK, but she has never mentioned having to take a cut in pay.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

I want a BK that involves no pay cut !!!!! :huh: :huh:

 

[FA Mikey]

That may have changed in their BK, but she has never mentioned having to take a cut in pay.

You think? Come on Jim, common sense. You are smarter than that statement.

 

[The Goose]

You think? Come on Jim, common sense. You are smarter than that statement.

I'm won't try imply things are all rosy for DL/NWA workers, but remember - there was a change in the bankruptcy laws on 31 October 2005. Things became less favorable for the corporations and a little better for the workers but - it's hard to gage the extent of this because Delta and Northworst got in "under the wire" as they could see the loss of favorable terms and filed under the old law.

The absence of bankruptcy filings after the change in law, to me anyway, says volumes as to the lack of "corporate friendliness" re: the revisions. I expect AMR and their pet "union" (I hate using the word "union" when referring to the TWU) to raise the noise level about a BK filing if the present mediation begins to move towards a release, no doubt with all the accompanying lies and half-truths commonly associated with their typical business conduct when dealing with employees. I suspect the FAs' union is equal to the TWU in treachery so there will be pressure from that front also. The pilots, at least those who follow Hill, seem to pride themselves in being horses' asses for no reason other than they can.

One of the opinions I remember reading cited a portion of the law that would deny failure bonuses to executives unless said exec could show the court a viable job offer at another company. The BK judge was free to either award a bonus to the exec or say "take the job - don't let the door hit your ass". There are many other changes but that one sticks out in my mind.

The execs have nowhere to go, regardless of what our management posters say, or they would have done so by now considering their compensation is so "low". The board of directors (if tossed) will simply pursue their other primary interests.

While I didn't like the idea in 2003, now I have the attitude of "Let 'em file". It's the last thing they want to do.

 

[jersey777]

I have a friend who is a very senior DL f/a. I guess she was lying to me when she told me what she makes per hour. It was substantially above our top of scale. That may have changed in their BK, but she has never mentioned having to take a cut in pay.

Ok Jim....we got it. It sucks to be old and junior. If you only have a few more years to go till you "retire" then why don't you leave the decisions up to those that will be here for the long haul and go back to Houston or whatever God forsaken city in Texas you are from.

 

[FWAAA]

All of you pro-hanging-on-til-death supporters keep twisting my words. I NEVER said that someone who is still flying their line should retire. You're all scared to death that the almighty FLEXIBILITY of the job might be touched before you get to impose yourself on the junior f/as--assuming there are any left by the time you get there.

All along I've only talked about the senior flight attendants who will neither fly nor retire. And, don't drag up your false statistic that is only about 200. Even the union admits this. It is about 200 (actually a little more) "active" flight attendants who haven't flown a trip in over ten years. There are hundreds more who haven't flown a trip in years but less than 10 years.

But Jim, in only 30 years (you'll only be in your nineties), you'll finally be senior and then you can bid all the choice trips and trade (sell) them to whomever you please, only flying when the mood strikes. Wouldn't that be grand?

 

[meechy36]

I'm a 97 hire who is 49, I have come to grips with the fact that I am always going to be junior, in fact I knew this within a couple of months of being hired. Even with that fact I don't want to change the way that things are. If someone wants to drop their trips I am all for it, you know why? Because that is the way I want to pick up trips, I have a big aversion to picking up trips from the company while anyone is on furlough, but guess what since that last set of leaves I have had to resort to MU if I want to pick up anything because there isn't anything out there. Jim I don't know who all these people are that are bidding and dropping everything because anyone I talk to from different bases are saying the same thing, there ain't anything out there

I have another 20 years here, do you? I would really like to know just how many FA's there are still left that do what you say they do, over and over and over? I for one wish that more of the people who dropped everything hadn't left or taken leaves because then it would be easier for me to pick up trips

One thing I won't do is vote for anything that would make it worse for new hires, and we all know I'm talking years down the road in regards to reserve and pay.

I fly with a lot of senior people and I never get the Us against Them that Jim seems to get, and I fly with a lot of 40+ years gals.

MikeBOS

 

[AAStew]

Jim, Jim, Jim....where are you getting your info from? Midair? :huh: I called up my best friend and my cousin after reading your post, both Delta F/A's. They would like to clarify a few things....
The 52 hour threshold was imposed on them and the majority are pissed about it. In 2005 their top pay for a flight attendant was reduced to under $40 per hour, almost $11 less than ours if not more. Their sick pay was eliminated unless you received a physicians notice. That and about a million other little things.....that adds up to a lot!
As for AFA organizing on the property, they say different unions try every few years, but management pulls out all stops to block it. They still have enough flight attendants with the mentality that "Our company takes care of us" that the vote is defeated every time, though the margin of loss is smaller each time.
If anyone would like to see everything they did lose go to this link
http://www.2339c.org/Delta%20Wage%20Cuts.htm

So Jim, Delta might want you, you seem to fit their mold...but please don't try to paint them as such a utopian company...they are anything but!

 

[Maark767]

Jim, Jim, Jim....where are you getting your info from? Midair? :huh: I called up my best friend and my cousin after reading your post, both Delta F/A's. They would like to clarify a few things....
The 52 hour threshold was imposed on them and the majority are pissed about it. In 2005 their top pay for a flight attendant was reduced to under $40 per hour, almost $11 less than ours if not more. Their sick pay was eliminated unless you received a physicians notice. That and about a million other little things.....that adds up to a lot!
As for AFA organizing on the property, they say different unions try every few years, but management pulls out all stops to block it. They still have enough flight attendants with the mentality that "Our company takes care of us" that the vote is defeated every time, though the margin of loss is smaller each time.
If anyone would like to see everything they did lose go to this link
http://www.2339c.org/Delta%20Wage%20Cuts.htm

So Jim, Delta might want you, you seem to fit their mold...but please don't try to paint them as such a utopian company...they are anything but!

He thinks Delta is all that because they are growing and going everywhere. That's what he bases his opinion on and being junior,growth means more F/As under him thus making him more senior someday. I'm all for that don't get me wrong but that alone does not make the airline the best. It's all about the contract for me.....

 

[jimntx]

But Jim, in only 30 years (you'll only be in your nineties), you'll finally be senior and then you can bid all the choice trips and trade (sell) them to whomever you please, only flying when the mood strikes. Wouldn't that be grand?

You're joking, right? At 90, I would just barely be able to hold weekends off. Certainly not a line that the trip trade services would want.

If you are reading this thread for the first time, all the attacks on me are from people who like the idea of having a job that you don't actually ever have to show up for, and the company can't get rid of you for never coming to work.

AAstew, are you sure the "majority" are upset or just your cousins? Where are you getting your data? (As you asked me.) I called my friend who has been with DL almost 40 years. She doesn't care about the minimum threshhold because she flies her line. Can you imagine a more ridiculous, backward idea? Have a job where you show up and work when your expected to be there. What is this world coming to?

 

[FA Mikey]

Actually Jim, the so called attacks are against your belief that there should be limited or no flexibility to force people out so that the very JR people can have what takes years to achieve in a day. How did we get to this point of open ended flexible trip trading? A work group of mainly women who are having and raising children. Are JR people now against mothers and families?

Looks like AASTEW got her data the same way you did word of mouth. I also posted a graph published by another union showing as much and then simple CW says after a run through the bankruptcy court with no CBA to even question, that they would come out far ahead of us.

 

[Mach85ER]

A couple of questions from a clueless watcher in the upper deck peanut gallery seats:

Any wag as to how the current AA FA total package compares to the best package of any other FA job in the US?
-is it 20%-15%-10% worse? (I know there is a tremendous "apples/oranges" comparison, so just a wag)

Is there a minimum flying hour threshold to maintain health benefits?

THX

 

[AAStew]

For health benefits we have to fly 50% of our guarantee which is 35 hours per month.