FA Attrition

[kirkpatrick]

but the last TWA lady I flew with, who is just happens to be the neighbor of Mayor Bloomberg in NYC, quoted " I love what I do, and that's why I do it". Guess what honey? You have just thrown those of your fellow TWA/AA F/A's under the bus who "REALLY" needed this job to survive..I am glad you flew Cairo, Tel Aviv, etc...Now what? This is LGA/ORD! This is called an MD-80 not a 747, It's your job! Make it happen!

I'm not sure I understand the logic of this argument. Are you saying this ex-TWA lady you flew with should have refused recall, allowing someone junior to get their job back, simply because she does not appear to be in dire financial trouble?

The message in Mr. Hunter's post is that there are 1525 FA's who no longer have recall rights. Whether a recall chooses to come back or not does not help them in any way. You and your fellow FA's can help by jumping on the bandwagon and pressuring the company to extend their recall rights.

These people are at or near the bottom of the pay scale, the company could forego the whole expensive interview process, and their training could be abbreviated as ours was. There's no reason in the world why those who have fallen off the list should not be offered their jobs back.

MK

 

[Flyboy4u]

I'm not sure I understand the logic of this argument. Are you saying this ex-TWA lady you flew with should have refused recall, allowing someone junior to get their job back, simply because she does not appear to be in dire financial trouble?

Yes, that's what I am saying...Why are those taking recall when they clearly don't need the job, and in alot of cases, don't want the job? A very good friend of mine is a trip trader at LGA. She has alot of the former TWA FAs as clients. She has alot of trouble working with them because they only want to drop trips..Unfortunately, when you are that junior dropping isn't that easy. So why did you come back after being gone for so long, and not wanting to fly?

The same argument can be said for those on the line currently flying who continue to drop their trips, and never fly. They are doing nothing more than taking up seniority numbers and allowing reserves to pick up thier slack. This is a JOB. It's not a walk in the park, and then decide to fly when one wants too. There are hundreds still on the street who need an income and health benefits..They would gladly fly their schedule and more. Unfortunately, they will never get that chance...You talk of pressuring the company into doing something. In due time you will understand that AA doens only what it wants. They have their reason, whatever it may be, to not extend further recall rights. I can tell you the "so called" union that you belong too doesn't care. What needs to happen is in the next contract, is a mandatory 75 hour schedule be flown monthly. Period!

 

[upsilon]

There is a grassroots bag tag campaign organized and funded by an activist group of former TWA flight attendants to bring attention to the fact these folks were left behind in the recent 2 year recall rights extension. So far, there are about 1000 "Recall 4 AAll" bag tags out in the system with more to come.

As a former dedicated TWA international pax, I would both contribute to such a fund and proudly display such a bag tag. Is that possible?

 

[nbmcg01]

As a former dedicated TWA international pax, I would both contribute to such a fund and proudly display such a bag tag. Is that possible?

How kind you are! It is always nice to hear from our former passengers. If you will email me @ [email protected], I will be happy to have one sent to you.

 

[s80dude]

Yes, that's what I am saying...Why are those taking recall when they clearly don't need the job, and in alot of cases, don't want the job? A very good friend of mine is a trip trader at LGA. She has alot of the former TWA FAs as clients. She has alot of trouble working with them because they only want to drop trips..Unfortunately, when you are that junior dropping isn't that easy. So why did you come back after being gone for so long, and not wanting to fly?

The same argument can be said for those on the line currently flying who continue to drop their trips, and never fly. They are doing nothing more than taking up seniority numbers and allowing reserves to pick up thier slack. This is a JOB. It's not a walk in the park, and then decide to fly when one wants too. There are hundreds still on the street who need an income and health benefits..They would gladly fly their schedule and more. Unfortunately, they will never get that chance...You talk of pressuring the company into doing something. In due time you will understand that AA doens only what it wants. They have their reason, whatever it may be, to not extend further recall rights. I can tell you the "so called" union that you belong too doesn't care. What needs to happen is in the next contract, is a mandatory 75 hour schedule be flown monthly. Period!

As someone who likes to fly about 90 hours, I need people who are droppers to be putting their trips into HIBOARD. I also like the flexibilty of being able to drop down in time as well. Next month finds me with lots of committments and I was able to drop some trips and am now at about 55 hours. The flexibilty of this job is what makes it so attractive. It's one of the few perks we still have.

 

[Hunter]

[...] You talk of pressuring the company into doing something. In due time you will understand that AA doens only what it wants. They have their reason, whatever it may be, to not extend further recall rights. I can tell you the "so called" union that you belong too doesn't care.

Hold on a minute. You are right that AA does pretty much what it wants. The trick is to find a way to make what you want just happen to be what is in AA's best interest.

In the case of the 2 year extension of recall rights, it took a very determined group of former TWA flight attendants over 1 1/2 years of hard work to get there. Amazingly, we first had to get our unions attention. We did that by picketing our own union. It was a novel idea that garnered national media attention as well as the support of other flight attendant unions across the country.

I do not think it was the case that APFA didn’t care as you suggest. It was more a matter that they felt as if they had already tried everything. As we all know, sometimes a few new ideas and a fresh set of foot soldiers can really shake things up.

Ultimately, the former TWA flight attendants created just the right mix of political leverage and financial incentive that AA concluded it was in their best interest to extend recall rights. Unfortunately, in the end, AA wanted to hang on to some leverage of their own in the form of the 1525 junior flight attendants they refused to include in the deal. We’ll see how that works out for them. We’re not giving up.

The former TWA flight attendants are a tenacious lot. We have stubbornly clung to the belief that to allow our fellow, union flight attendants to permanently lose their employment rights would be in effect to allow the cowardly acts of terrorists to stand. Not in the America I live in and not at the American Airlines for which we all want to work.

Join us, Ed. I will leave a bag tag in your mailbox at base.

 

[Hunter]

duplicate post deleted

 

[skyhoosier]

[

quote name='Flyboy4u' date='Mar 26 2008, 10:26 PM' post='586239']
" I love what I do, and that's why I do it". Guess what honey? You have just thrown those of your fellow TWA/AA F/A's under the bus who "REALLY" needed this job to survive.."

I don't understand your logic either. Like, you can't need a job you love? Or you can't love the job you need? I believe everyone who "REALLY" needs a job can find one, especially one they hate. We did what we had to do while being furloughed, but always dreaming of the day we would be back in our own job, the job we loved and were happy doing. Yes, some drop trips and for a variety of reasons. In some cases we recognize that colleagues need the overtime that those dropped trips provide. In other cases, some are still extricating ourselves from commitments that didn't just end the day we were recalled to training. Some are finishing up or winding down jobs, projects, caring duties, etc in a responsible way as to not disappoint those who supported us when we needed an alternate job (which we may or may not have enjoyed). We love this job for a multitude of reasons. It can be made to fit us as our needs change.

Everyone on the dropped list chose this job and had the right to expect that if they did their job well, they would be entitled to a chance to resume it, no matter how long they have to wait. They are the ones disadvantaged while waiting, not the company. The govenment did their part by extending funds to the industry to help in the aftermath of 9/11. Those still out were the first to be laid off. How about AA acknowledging that any 'costs' associated with their call back would have been fully covered by those funds they received, not only for AA but separately for TW LLC, had not they been absorbed into executive bonuses.

 

[Flyboy4u]

[

I don't understand your logic either. Like, you can't need a job you love? Or you can't love the job you need? I believe everyone who "REALLY" needs a job can find one, especially one they hate. We did what we had to do while being furloughed, but always dreaming of the day we would be back in our own job, the job we loved and were happy doing. Yes, some drop trips and for a variety of reasons. In some cases we recognize that colleagues need the overtime that those dropped trips provide. In other cases, some are still extricating ourselves from commitments that didn't just end the day we were recalled to training. Some are finishing up or winding down jobs, projects, caring duties, etc in a responsible way as to not disappoint those who supported us when we needed an alternate job (which we may or may not have enjoyed). We love this job for a multitude of reasons. It can be made to fit us as our needs change.

Everyone on the dropped list chose this job and had the right to expect that if they did their job well, they would be entitled to a chance to resume it, no matter how long they have to wait. They are the ones disadvantaged while waiting, not the company. The govenment did their part by extending funds to the industry to help in the aftermath of 9/11. Those still out were the first to be laid off. How about AA acknowledging that any 'costs' associated with their call back would have been fully covered by those funds they received, not only for AA but separately for TW LLC, had not they been absorbed into executive bonuses.

That's just it...You call this a Job, but then you agree with those who refuse to do it...THose who continue to drop trips, and not fly. Those who constantly call in sick and use "fake" FMLA's to cover themselves. I never once said that you can't have a job that you love, but why even take a job that you obviously dont need because YOU DONT WORK IT? Instead, you would rather have those other F/A's do your work while you sit back and enjoy the benefits..Not to mention, take away a career that those under you will never be able to come back too thanks to your stubborness and selfishness. The company only looks at numbers for manning purposes, and I find it hard to believe that AA will take into consideration those who actually don't work as part of those numbers...Perhaps, they do because they have too. You want AA to acknowledge "costs" associated with call backs from gov't funds? Good luck, and keep dreaming..Why can't you, do your part and fly what you promised to the company when they offered you a contract of employment? Why not ask your friends who are "supposedly" flying to do the same or quit? By actually doing your job as promised, or finding a new one would actually help those needing a recall to come back. Instead of blaming AA for the reason recalls won't happen, why don't you look in the mirror, and talk with your fellow co-workers who continue to reap the benefits but refuse to do the work?

 

[nbmcg01]

That's just it...You call this a Job, but then you agree with those who refuse to do it...THose who continue to drop trips, and not fly. Those who constantly call in sick and use "fake" FMLA's to cover themselves. I never once said that you can't have a job that you love, but why even take a job that you obviously dont need because YOU DONT WORK IT? Instead, you would rather have those other F/A's do your work while you sit back and enjoy the benefits..Not to mention, take away a career that those under you will never be able to come back too thanks to your stubborness and selfishness. The company only looks at numbers for manning purposes, and I find it hard to believe that AA will take into consideration those who actually don't work as part of those numbers...Perhaps, they do because they have too. You want AA to acknowledge "costs" associated with call backs from gov't funds? Good luck, and keep dreaming..Why can't you, do your part and fly what you promised to the company when they offered you a contract of employment? Why not ask your friends who are "supposedly" flying to do the same or quit? By actually doing your job as promised, or finding a new one would actually help those needing a recall to come back. Instead of blaming AA for the reason recalls won't happen, why don't you look in the mirror, and talk with your fellow co-workers who continue to reap the benefits but refuse to do the work?

Ed, I'm surprised at your attitude. The examples you are using are like apples and oranges, both are fruits but very different. Many of our recent recalls were not yet 50 when furloughed. They had spent almost 30 years in the airline industry. To walk away with "nothing" is a bitter pill and yet AA is insisting that these persons go through 31/2 weeks of training to be able to resign to retire at 55. Personally I think it is a risky proposition because passes and medical can be taken away on a whim and $99 a month is not a lot to live on... Not having a by-pass option is archaic and forces people into either resigning/retiring before they would have given normal circumstances, or folks return to juggle until family, school or furlough employment commitments are finalized. Leaving is permanent. There are no do-overs. I would hate to see someone close the door and then find commuting or being on reserve/availability (for any price) is not what they thought it would be. Bottom line is they EARNED the right to return and avail themselves of all contractual provisions. I personally don't know of anyone that would be stupid enough to use FMLA or call off flights if it wasn't medically necessary. We have too much to prove.

Every AA f/a should fight for their "brothers and sisters" to be given the opportunity to return. There should be no off the street hiring before all have been given this opportunity. The "shared sacrifice" dollars are too high to let anyone be left behind. $700,000,000 and counting.

 

[kirkpatrick]

but why even take a job that you obviously dont need because YOU DONT WORK IT?

I think I understand where your attitude is coming from. You're frustrated with stagnant seniority and think if low timers would quit we'd all move up in seniority and hold those good trips. I saw the same thing happen at TWA.

Believe me, a poison pill is NOT going to coerce anyone to quit; at least, not enough to make any difference. What you're talking about is flexibility, one of the key benefits to our job. I just flew with a low timer. She bids transcons and drops all but what's necessary to keep her vacation, sick leave and benefits. I say fine, more power to her. I fly mid to high nineties every month and I'm thankful for good trips on HIBOARD to choose from.

Shooting ourselves in the foot by taking away our own benefits isn't going to get us up the seniority ladder any quicker. Expansion is the only thing that's going to help.

MK

 

[ArtTang]

I think I understand where your attitude is coming from. You're frustrated with stagnant seniority and think if low timers would quit we'd all move up in seniority and hold those good trips. I saw the same thing happen at TWA.

Believe me, a poison pill is NOT going to coerce anyone to quit; at least, not enough to make any difference. What you're talking about is flexibility, one of the key benefits to our job. I just flew with a low timer. She bids transcons and drops all but what's necessary to keep her vacation, sick leave and benefits. I say fine, more power to her. I fly mid to high nineties every month and I'm thankful for good trips on HIBOARD to choose from.

Shooting ourselves in the foot by taking away our own benefits isn't going to get us up the seniority ladder any quicker. Expansion is the only thing that's going to help.

MK

MK,

Thank you for your voice of reason. I couldn't have said it better.

Peace,
Art in Miami

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Nancy & Mark, Perfectly stated. You both are always the voice of reason as Art states.

 

[Flyboy4u]

Thank you Nancy and Mark for your voice of " REASON ". Can we all please speak now of reality? Ok, Reality is? We can drop trips when we want? Correct? on HiBOARD? correct? So, What does that do? It gives you what you want. Right? to fly nothing in the month? Right? Ok. so Garfield? What does that do to scheduling? Hmmmm....We all want to know Mr./Ms. Scheduler? When they drop, trade, move trips? Does that affect you?....Of couse it does...You have to deal with the aftermath...Am I right? New Scenario, TWA and AA, remember most of AA doesn't know what a furlough is, or do they care? NOT>>> been proven more than once on here, if we all drop trips, refuse to fly the trips, or better yet, refuse to fly the trips and call you out on the ,So Called , " commuter" policy, Does that really matter? Inquiring minds really want to know the truth?

 

[nbmcg01]

Thank you Nancy and Mark for your voice of " REASON ". Can we all please speak now of reality? Ok, Reality is? We can drop trips when we want? Correct? on HiBOARD? correct? So, What does that do? It gives you what you want. Right? to fly nothing in the month? Right? Ok. so Garfield? What does that do to scheduling? Hmmmm....We all want to know Mr./Ms. Scheduler? When they drop, trade, move trips? Does that affect you?....Of couse it does...You have to deal with the aftermath...Am I right? New Scenario, TWA and AA, remember most of AA doesn't know what a furlough is, or do they care? NOT>>> been proven more than once on here, if we all drop trips, refuse to fly the trips, or better yet, refuse to fly the trips and call you out on the ,So Called , " commuter" policy, Does that really matter? Inquiring minds really want to know the truth?

Ed, reserves are paid a guarantee whether they fly or not. AA shouldn't care who flies a flight as long as the plane is properly staffed. Actually, I think AA's trading rules are archaic and restrictive. Are you suggesting that f/as only fly what they've been awarded, no more, no less? Or that they shouldn't be allowed to trade to allow for more flexibility? Pref bidding might be an answer to that philosophy but I believe you'll have a hard time selling it to the rank and file AA f/a that lives by the "we've always done it that way" mantra. Reality is that the one benefit left for the f/a job IS flexibility. It is the main reason many of us have flown for 30+ years. We could trade up to check in which saved many a commuter butt or someone who had walked out of their house without a passport. Flight was covered, no discipline assessed. As to AA's commuter policy, I don't think it is a good policy but then I always lived where I worked and I'm not trying to get to work in a new base after being "at home" for the past 5 years. I would be willing to bet that recall off duty by % is far less than their peers. Why, because most are still in the "honeymoon" stage of return and do not want to give the Company any reason to leave the others "behind". I guess I'm having difficulty understanding your anger. You should want every last soul back. That means more under you and less time on reserve.

Once again, reality is $700,000,000 in shared sacrifice and counting warrants recall for all.