FA Attrition

[Flyboy4u]

Ed, reserves are paid a guarantee whether they fly or not. AA shouldn't care who flies a flight as long as the plane is properly staffed. Actually, I think AA's trading rules are archaic and restrictive. Are you suggesting that f/as only fly what they've been awarded, no more, no less? Or that they shouldn't be allowed to trade to allow for more flexibility? Pref bidding might be an answer to that philosophy but I believe you'll have a hard time selling it to the rank and file AA f/a that lives by the "we've always done it that way" mantra. Reality is that the one benefit left for the f/a job IS flexibility. It is the main reason many of us have flown for 30+ years. We could trade up to check in which saved many a commuter butt or someone who had walked out of their house without a passport. Flight was covered, no discipline assessed. As to AA's commuter policy, I don't think it is a good policy but then I always lived where I worked and I'm not trying to get to work in a new base after being "at home" for the past 5 years. I would be willing to bet that recall off duty by % is far less than their peers. Why, because most are still in the "honeymoon" stage of return and do not want to give the Company any reason to leave the others "behind". I guess I'm having difficulty understanding your anger. You should want every last soul back. That means more under you and less time on reserve.

Once again, reality is $700,000,000 in shared sacrifice and counting warrants recall for all.

Well Nancy , as a true nAAtive than we don't see eye to eye..Sorry....Have you been layed off from an airline before? when promised the "WORLD", please don't say Yes? Why? I would then suspect Eastern?, and TWA?,...Why do I say that? I have been there and have done it with your Current employer...You talk about guarntees, and you are correct when you say AA doesn't care who flys it, Right? Do you care? No! Why? I have what I have...Right?...Yes....BINGO....You signed up to do a job, Right? My guess with your responses, and attitude U are at least 12-14 years seniority with AA,,,,,Correct? OK>.....Reality is ...Get a life, Do your job, or Sh*t and get off off of the toilet...Nobody cares! Because you dont reAAly care if you did, you would't respond in holier than thou AAtitude! Sorry...It is what is is!...Thank you NorEaster for being honest on these boards...Somebody has to be!

 

[nbmcg01]

Well Nancy , as a true nAAtive than we don't see eye to eye..Sorry....Have you been layed off from an airline before? when promised the "WORLD", please don't say Yes? Why? I would then suspect Eastern?, and TWA?,...Why do I say that? I have been there and have done it with your Current employer...You talk about guarntees, and you are correct when you say AA doesn't care who flys it, Right? Do you care? No! Why? I have what I have...Right?...Yes....BINGO....You signed up to do a job, Right? My guess with your responses, and attitude U are at least 12-14 years seniority with AA,,,,,Correct? OK>.....Reality is ...Get a life, Do your job, or Sh*t and get off off of the toilet...Nobody cares! Because you dont reAAly care if you did, you would't respond in holier than thou AAtitude! Sorry...It is what is is!...Thank you NorEaster for being honest on these boards...Somebody has to be!

Have I ever been furloughed from an airline? WHAT? PanAM which led to my employment at TWA. TWA, 5 times in 70-71, AA, starting in 2003. I always flew my schedule and rarely picked up trips and NEVER when there were others on furlough. I fought HARD to have our furlough provisions extended from 5 years to 7 and no I don't think anyone should be hired off the street or allowed to transfer from "in house" until ALL furloughed are offered recall. As a long time union activist under one of the most contractually astute and visionary labor leaders of my generation, I learned to look "out of the box" in hard economic times to develop quality of life contractual provisions that were no cost or cost neutral.

The fact that AA SHOULDN'T care who flies a trip is a f/a positive provision. AA DOES care because of the current restrictive trading rules. (the red light, green light, math formula driven for example)

I WAS promised the WORLD, Two Great Airlines, One Great Future, and because of their unwillingness to live up to their promises (before Congress, the State of Missouri, and the employees of TWA) I chose not to return. I left in ample time so as not to affect anyone below me from having the opportunity to return. My seniority has been back and happily flying for some time. Do I miss flying? Rarely. Do I miss the lifestyle? Absolutely. I miss my co-workers, and I really miss union work. I would have loved to negotiated against AA.

After all these years, I find it amusing that you thought I was a nAAtive with 12-14 years. I am savvy enough to know that the AA f/as are going to have to be willing to look out of the present and entertain such changes as pref bidding, a DAL style of reserve, new hires not being part of the defined benefit retirement package, and work rule changes which CAN be a good thing. I actually like Garfield's idea of have representatives from scheduling and representatives from the f/as sitting at the same table to hash out on duty work rule, reserve rules etc. Then a joint recommendation could be presented to the Company and the Union to be presented to the f/as as part of the upcoming contract. What a novel concept. The ultimate focus group, which might produce some pretty good work rules. Of course, not being binding there would have to be a vote by the membership.

ps..my TWA seniority was Jan. 14, 1970 700117

pss.. Ed, we have not only emailed in the past but talked on the phone...you still in real estate?

 

[AAStew]

After all these years, I find it amusing that you thought I was a nAAtive with 12-14 years. I am savvy enough to know that the AA f/as are going to have to be willing to look out of the present and entertain such changes as pref bidding, a DAL style of reserve, new hires not being part of the defined benefit retirement package, and work rule changes which CAN be a good thing. I actually like Garfield's idea of have representatives from scheduling and representatives from the f/as sitting at the same table to hash out on duty work rule, reserve rules etc. Then a joint recommendation could be presented to the Company and the Union to be presented to the f/as as part of the upcoming contract. What a novel concept. The ultimate focus group, which might produce some pretty good work rules. Of course, not being binding there would have to be a vote by the membership.

Nancy, what are the chances of getting some of these on the table? The Dal style of reserve appeals to me, such a small piece to give monthly, to get the quality of your life back! It is a win-win situation, no cost item! Having more flexibility with flying reserve by being able to trade!
I am tired of the same ole' same ole', every contract period. I may not agree with all of the ideas, but there are certainly some that would benefit us all!
HOw do I get in touch with the negotiator who came over from TWA?

 

[nbmcg01]

Nancy, what are the chances of getting some of these on the table? The Dal style of reserve appeals to me, such a small piece to give monthly, to get the quality of your life back! It is a win-win situation, no cost item! Having more flexibility with flying reserve by being able to trade!
I am tired of the same ole' same ole', every contract period. I may not agree with all of the ideas, but there are certainly some that would benefit us all!
HOw do I get in touch with the negotiator who came over from TWA?

You and the other active (and furloughed) f/as have to let your union and the negotiators know what you want. While dollar per hour is important, work rules drive your pay and quality of life. I'm pretty radical and would throw out (to the membership)blended pay vs straight pay/overtime to help ease up on some of the work rules. The Co. does not want to pay someone at overtimes rates for a trip they could have had flown for straight rates. Why is Intn. paid at a higher rate? The original reason (at least for TWA) was that all intn. f/as had to be language qualified and it was believed that "over water" was more dangerous. That just doesn't warrant the difference any more. Now, I do believe that Intn. should have a higher expense rate. D, surgeryALs stlye of reserve (3 days, trading available) built into all lines seems like the way to go. A certain % of lines could be exempt as needs allow. Add a % of 12 day reserve spreads (if the DAL doesn't "fly), with a provision that a % must be in the beginning of the month, middle and end. You could have 24 days off for a trip, surgery, home for most of the summer, CHRISTMAS, so many reasons and it would change the face of reserve.

Dixie is flying ourt of New York. Dixie Daniels. She is a wonderful person and a good listener. Her experience has been in concessionary contracts and looking for no cost, cost neutral items. The biggest challeng will be for AA not to play games with these quality of life enhancements and put a "price" on them "just because".

 

[L1011Ret]

It's not going to happen! Why? AA F/A's are the MOST unsupportive, Selfish, group in the entire Airline system! You ask, What do I mean? Look at whats's going on..They DON'T care...My past Posts, since I have been on this board , support what I am saying...From the first recall, to the last recall,,,,It's only about themselves...Unfortuantely, those from TWA returning have the same attitude...It's their choice...They have the seniority, as the argument goes, they deserve it , as the argument goes, it's their right....I have flown with you ladys/guys from TWA...You are some of " the Best" in the entire system, but the last TWA lady I flew with, who is just happens to be the neighbor of Mayor Bloomberg in NYC, quoted " I love what I do, and that's why I do it". Guess what honey? You have just thrown those of your fellow TWA/AA F/A's under the bus who "REALLY" needed this job to survive..I am glad you flew Cairo, Tel Aviv, etc...Now what? This is LGA/ORD! This is called an MD-80 not a 747, It's your job! Make it happen!

The TWA F/As are 600 out of 18,000, yet you choose to blame those TWA F/As dropping trips for throwing fellow F/As under the bus. You really sound like some sort some sort of APFA radical who thinks TWAers should not even be working for AA let alone using the contract the way 17,200 other AA F/As do. They are all selfish you say but it was your selfish union that that negotiated the contractual language and who choose to selfishly throw all the TWA F/As under the bus. You are whining so much I'm betting your mother had to fly 75 hours every month and could not drop trips leaving you feeling abandoned and angry.

 

[jimntx]

Nancy, what are the chances of getting some of these on the table? The Dal style of reserve appeals to me, such a small piece to give monthly, to get the quality of your life back! It is a win-win situation, no cost item! Having more flexibility with flying reserve by being able to trade!
I am tired of the same ole' same ole', every contract period. I may not agree with all of the ideas, but there are certainly some that would benefit us all!
HOw do I get in touch with the negotiator who came over from TWA?

1. I'm not sure that this email address still works, but the APFA had put out a message asking for contract suggestions. They asked that you send suggestions via email to [email protected].

2. You can contact any member of the negotiating committee via Jetmail (assuming that they are not like most f/as and never read Jetmail). In Jetmail when you click on Create a New Message icon, a blank "email" comes up. When you click on TO:, an address book comes up. You have to specify the person's Base, but for Dixie that would be LGA, then type in last name, Daniels.

3. a. Go to APFA.org website
b. login
c. On Home page just to right of login fields, look for box labelled Updates
d. Click on APFA Negotiating Team
e. Click on Negotiations '08
f. Scroll down until you see Tell Your Negotiating Team What You Want. Click on that.
g. A "form" comes up where you just fill in the blanks--name, employee number, base, etc. and there is a "free-form" field at the end for entering your suggestion. Be aware, there may be a limit to the number of characters you can enter (like your trade message on Hiboard ).

You probably will get a polite, canned response, but hey. If we don't ask, the answer is automatically NO. I sent in several suggestions that might improve the jobs of junior f/as--some of them wouldn't even benefit me anymore, but might be nice for people hired after me (assuming we ever hire again before I retire ). I got no impression that the negotiators found any of my suggestions even mildly interesting. Improving the quality of life for junior f/as is not high on the APFA's agenda.

 

[skyhoosier]

Thank you Nancy and Mark for your voice of " REASON ". Can we all please speak now of reality? Ok, Reality is? We can drop trips when we want? Correct? on HiBOARD? correct? So, What does that do? It gives you what you want. Right? to fly nothing in the month? Right? Ok. so Garfield? What does that do to scheduling? Hmmmm....We all want to know Mr./Ms. Scheduler? When they drop, trade, move trips? Does that affect you?....Of couse it does...You have to deal with the aftermath...Am I right?

There isn't any 'aftermath' If a person drops a trip it is because someone else picks it up. FA X has 1 trip and FA Y has one trip = 2 trips being flown. FA X offers their trip on HIBOARD and FA Y picks it up, letting FA 'drop' the trip. Still = 2 trips being flown, just by one FA. Scheduling isn't involved or inconvenienced. FA Y wants extra time and is happy FA X wants time off and Scheduling doesn't care at all. I am not sure anyone else should care either; they don't have to fly the dropped trip. If no one wanted the dropped trip, then FA X would be flying it.