Calling In Sick?

[PITMTC]

I don't think a brain surgeon's mind is necessary for that answer.

.............

I can't argue with a thing you stated in your post, you are absolutely correct.

One thing I can say is that abuse in sick time and the abusers and scammers did not start after we started taking concessions. The abuse has been going on since I started with this company and even back then I recognized it and was against it. The term "earn um and burn um" didn't start when Dave and Jerry came along.

 

[D M G]

My understanding is that your company actually increased sick leave benefit over 200% with fleet service when they agreed to reduce 5 vacation days per year but increased the sick accrual from 5 days to one per month.

If it saves the company money and the employees are willing to go for it, why not drop 12 sick days to 7 and increase vacation 5 days?

Win for company and Win for employees, I think so.

The company didn't increase sick time out of the goodness of their heart. FSA used to recieve a sick day per month until the Teamsters were de-certified in 1991. The company then began stick it up the FSA arses hard, imposing many cuts and implementing the ridiculous PDO policy. They took 12 sick days per year and eliminated the 10 Holidays, and in return gave 10 extra vacation days to use. You had to take 5 of those extra vacation days and put them into a sick bank each year, so it wasn't really vacation time, and if you used it as sick time you were subject to the attendance control policy.

Giving more vacation time and cutting sick time is a stupid idea that wouldn't fly. It's tough enough getting a DAT day approved, let alone giving people more vacation time to try and use. The only time you could get approved for this extra vacation time is in January and February. Isn't it bad enough that we already have agents having to take all their vacation time in Jan, Feb, Mar, Oct, and the first two weeks of November?

The problem with the number of DAT days and vacation week slots that the company approves has nothing to do with the current sick time and FMLA usage, so I don't even want to hear that argument. They want you to believe that they can't approve extra summer week vacations and DAT days because of sick time and FMLA abuse which causes manpower shortages. The company didn't approve adequate vacation slots as far back as '92, which was before FMLA was even law. It wasn't until the late 90's that the sick time and FMLA usage started shooting way up, and this was after years of not being able to take your earned vacation time in a reasonable manner. Of course there are people who would abuse the system no matter what the situation, but it became easier to burn a sick day to attend a graduation than it was to put in for a DAT and be denied time after time.

I say use your sick time. In 1991/1992 the company took away our accrued OJI days, and gave us nothing in return. I lost several months of accrued time, and I won't let it happen to my sick time.

 

[openview]

Well maybe there's an unrealized fairness to the genuine worker that's paying for the ern'm & burn crowd down the road should US fail. In short, and maybe topic for a future discussion on life after USAir, I just received and accepted my first opportunity post usair after a long, yet selective job search. In part I think I was selected after several interviews and many candidates, because I had and was able to show my last 3 performance evals, a folder full of commend. letters from projects over the years, and 2 certificates of perfect attendance for two of those years.

And when my position was cut after 13 yrs, and I left with a severance worth less than the sick time value sitting in my bank, I still didn't "wish" I had burn'd em. Its a perk not an entitlement and when I had surgery & needed to be out 2 weeks it was there.

So maybe when the next airline job interview asks to see the past 3 years employment history, those with the regularly scheduled sick calls, zero bank, and sprinkled with OIJ claims, psn leaves, no-contacts, grievances, suspension and such, maybe they'll hear the lovely words: ah..we'll get back to you.

 

[mweiss]

A better way to work the sick-but-not-really-sick deal would be to give the company the right, but not the requirement, to terminate about 2 1/2 percent of the workforce with the worst attendance records each year with no recourse to grievance.

I already know what PITbull will say in response to this. Management will use this as an excuse to get rid of the most senior employees.

Did I get that one right, PB?

But, anyway, you're right that there are abuses of the system from the top down. In my previous employment, we were permitted to take personal days, but there were a few important reasons that we were permitted to do so:

1) We were all salaried employees, so we got paid the same regardless
2) We all had specific tasks that needed to be accomplished, by particular deadlines. If we had to work 20 hours per day to get it done, we worked 20 hours per day. Conversely, if things were lighter, we had greater opportunity to take personal days.
3) We all had stock options, and thus disincentive to screw the company.
4) We were all reviewed against each other, so anyone who was a genuine slacker would be shown the door in nine months or less.

 

[pitguy]

So what is the perfect system? I don't know. How do you protect the company and honest hard working people who deserve to be rewarded and treated fairly?


--Maybe this is as fair as it gets.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Weiss:

what kept the company from giving stock options and profit sharing to the rank and file a long time ago?

I'll tell you what it was. Greed. Plain and simple.

Management (unwisely) figured they could toss some money at the worker bees in the form of direct compensation....and not have any reason to share the pie.

If the workers had been made partners, so to speak...to where if the company did well, they did well...that is the greatest incentive for the employees to avoid actions that would "screw" the company.

It's not a perfect world. There will always be malcontents regardless of how good a deal someone has.

 

[D M G]

and 2 certificates of perfect attendance for two of those years.

So maybe when the next airline job interview asks to see the past 3 years employment history, those with the regularly scheduled sick calls, zero bank, and sprinkled with OIJ claims, psn leaves, no-contacts, grievances, suspension and such, maybe they'll hear the lovely words: ah..we'll get back to you.

You can burn unlimited days using FMLA and still get those perfect attendance certificates. I've seen people use 30, 40, or more FMLA days in a year and still receive one. They're not worth the paper they're printed on.

You can tell your next interviewer anything you want about your employment history because by law there isn't much imformation they can get from a current or past employer.

 

[bikingjw]

Js
After reading your anaolgy about sick leave abuse I agree with what you said, very straight foward and true. Its so easy for the bean counters to calculate in the cost of sick leave in lost hours and cost to the company. MY problem with the situation and what I'm trying to get across is.
1- Does the company figure in enough for sick leave, if not why? That is a cost all companys have.
2- If usairs sick leave is higher substantially , why is that? It should be understood it will be somewhat higher with all the stress with closings of stations, layoffs and the such. Any one not seeing that has his or hers head in the sand.
3- After reading some of these posts shouldn't it start becoming clear that strong arming employees to tow the line might not be the best solution to the problem? I was a shop steward for a while and went in with my fellow workers when they had their hearings. I was not there to defend anyone and I let them know that. I was there to make sure that the company followed the guidelines agreed to by both them(the company) and the union regarding sick leave abuse. Some of the people were abusing it, no question, others had good reasons of their absences. BUT all were thrown into the same kettle! In the end, no one won. The abusers found ways around the system while the ligit ones just got pissed. And I guarantee that a pissed off employee is not a very productive employee. So what to do??
3-Give me an example of how threats of termination will make an employee more motivated .
The answer, in my opinion is , change the system. Give the employee a reason for not calling in sick. How do other companys work their system to stop the abuse. I worked for an airline that used accrued sick and injury leave towards early retirement. I believe PSA paid the for unused sickleave. How about positive space tickets for attendence. Yes these cost money but I feel that cost would be easily offset. . What kind of savings are generated by more productive and happy employees. It's harder for the bean counters to calculate the savings, but is it working as it is in force now? I know that there are people that take the moral high ground saying sickleave is stealing and the such, ok it is. GET OVER IT!! It happens, always has and always will. Accept it, but then, outsmart it, not beat people over the head to stop it!

 

[Foster VonKeet]

I've been lurking on this board for quite a while and this topic is the the one that finally drew me into the discussion.
Sick time is given to you by the company to protect you in the instances of short term, minor disabilities such as colds, the flu, etc. Quite a nice gesture if you ask me, it costs you nothing and protects the income of most people most of the time, just what it was intended to do.
I'm amazed at the number of superbly ingenious ways presented for the company (one that's on the brink of failure, no less) to pay people for not being at work or justify burning their sick time. Change this paid time off to this paid time off, it's mine, mine, mine and I'll take it because I've "earned" it (it's a gift, remember), I'm sick because the company/management treats me bad, gave me bad news, I'm stressed out.....
You have agreed to provide a service to the company and the company has agreed to compensate you at a given monetary rate. That's Your Contract! You entered into it freely and about 99.9% of you have the capacity to have understood all the work rules and conditions of employment that went with the job within the first six months of being an employee. If the conditions were not what was promised or expected, that would have been the time to make a company/career change, not after 5, 10, 15, or more years.
Come to work when you are scheduled to be there, EARN YOUR PAY and you'll have done the best you can do to save your airline.
Try to keep in mind, the current management team, or even the last one did not put Airways in the hole it's in. I'll keep my opinions on how Airways got to where it is for another time.
I think y'all better focus on the next six to nine months. It's like you are on a damaged ship at sea and you're all standing around trying to make sure the blame for the damage is appropriately placed instead of trying to repair the ship.

 

[4merresrat]

'm amazed at the number of superbly ingenious ways presented for the company (one that's on the brink of failure, no less) to pay people for not being at work or justify burning their sick time. Change this paid time off to this paid time off, it's mine, mine, mine and I'll take it because I've "earned" it (it's a gift, remember), I'm sick because the company/management treats me bad, gave me bad news, I'm stressed out.....
You have agreed to provide a service to the company and the company has agreed to compensate you at a given monetary rate. That's Your Contract! You entered into it freely and about 99.9% of you have the capacity to have understood all the work rules and conditions of employment that went with the job within the first six months of being an employee. If the conditions were not what was promised or expected, that would have been the time to make a company/career change, not after 5, 10, 15, or more years.
Come to work when you are scheduled to be there, EARN YOUR PAY and you'll have done the best you can do to save your airline.
. . . I think y'all better focus on the next six to nine months. It's like you are on a damaged ship at sea and you're all standing around trying to make sure the blame for the damage is appropriately placed instead of trying to repair the ship.

Superbly put! Or you could use my fav analogy. . . they are rearranging the furniture when the buildings on fire! :blink:

 

[cavalier]

"Quite a nice gesture if you ask me, it costs you nothing and protects the income of most people most of the time, just what it was intended to do."

"Sick time is given to you by the company"

"(it's a gift, remember)"

"You entered into it freely"

WRONG!

Sick time is NOT a gift, it is in our contracts and we paid for it via other things past by for this sick time. And sick time policy was altered the last round of cuts too less time off for given time periods worked.


"You have agreed to provide a service to the company and the company has agreed to compensate you at a given monetary rate. That's Your Contract!"


Yes we agreed, and so did management about keeping our scope language if we signed the last round of cuts only to see it in court now, so much for integrity which is a TWO way street.

"I'm amazed at the number of superbly ingenious ways presented for the company (one that's on the brink of failure, no less) to pay people for not being at work or justify burning their sick time."

Maybe it never occurred to you that many people feel we are indeed on a sinking ship soon to vanish so why not burn some sick time? It's called human nature and anyone who doesn't recognize that fact is delusional.

"Try to keep in mind, the current management team, or even the last one did not put Airways in the hole it's in."

I am sure everyone does, but that doesn't change human nature which when seeing the ship going down is going to act accordingly.

"I think y'all better focus on the next six to nine months."

And I think if this management was serious about making a viable airline they should nip in the bud all rumors of gloom and doom, shut up the number one poster on here spreading his secret plan of pain for labor if we don't concede. Since they are NOT addressing these issues, employees assume some of these rumors have teeth and will continue to burn sick time and I don't blame them one Iota.

 

[PITbull]

I already know what PITbull will say in response to this. Management will use this as an excuse to get rid of the most senior employees.

Did I get that one right, PB?

But, anyway, you're right that there are abuses of the system from the top down. In my previous employment, we were permitted to take personal days, but there were a few important reasons that we were permitted to do so:

1) We were all salaried employees, so we got paid the same regardless
2) We all had specific tasks that needed to be accomplished, by particular deadlines. If we had to work 20 hours per day to get it done, we worked 20 hours per day. Conversely, if things were lighter, we had greater opportunity to take personal days.
3) We all had stock options, and thus disincentive to screw the company.
4) We were all reviewed against each other, so anyone who was a genuine slacker would be shown the door in nine months or less.

mweiss,

Your damn straight you got it right.


From my perch, we don't have sick fraud. We have amanagment team that is going after the older population of workers for every single sick occurence even if you are hospitalized or have surgery, THEY WILL ELEVATE YOU TO DEPENDABILITY ALL THE WAY TO TERMINATION.

I know for a fact!!!!

All slide presentations shown by managment always, always show how the lcc have a younger, less senior workforce, and how U compares as a older population of workers who use the benefits because they are entering older years.

They are trying to ge rid of the older population by putting in place new sick policies to rid themselves of these workers vs. offering "early out".

This subject has been beaten to death and I won't add anymore....I won't piss around with this management anymore...we just go and file EEOC and ADA. nuff said.

 

[Fly]

I find it amusing that so many people seem to think it's justifiable to eliminate people based on their age. How many on this board are under 30? What would you do if you found yourself in this situation (and don't say it can't happen to me)? Think about it.

 

[2BorNot2B]

Well maybe there's an unrealized fairness to the genuine worker that's paying for the ern'm & burn crowd down the road should US fail. In short, and maybe topic for a future discussion on life after USAir, I just received and accepted my first opportunity post usair after a long, yet selective job search. In part I think I was selected after several interviews and many candidates, because I had and was able to show my last 3 performance evals, a folder full of commend. letters from projects over the years, and 2 certificates of perfect attendance for two of those years.

And when my position was cut after 13 yrs, and I left with a severance worth less than the sick time value sitting in my bank, I still didn't "wish" I had burn'd em. Its a perk not an entitlement and when I had surgery & needed to be out 2 weeks it was there.

So maybe when the next airline job interview asks to see the past 3 years employment history, those with the regularly scheduled sick calls, zero bank, and sprinkled with OIJ claims, psn leaves, no-contacts, grievances, suspension and such, maybe they'll hear the lovely words: ah..we'll get back to you.

Now this is one of the most Honorable posts I have ever read within this Forum! I have only Praise for someone like yourself who understand the meaning of Integrity.

Seems to me that most of the I** folks posting here do not understand that "sick days" are intended as a cost free insurance against loss of pay when one is ill. This sort of "income protection" is readily available on the consumer market and you do have to pay for it. So a Contract is negotiated ... and this sort of insurance is included at no cost to the Employee. One of the Benefits of working for a good Company!

But some folks see this as a an oppourtunity to steal ....as I see it along the lines of "keying" their own car or driving it into a lake to get a new paint job or a new car! Sound rediculious?? No ... it is the same as calling in sick fraudulently. An abuse of valuable employee benefit!

I cannot help but to recall the I** grievence against a fellow pilot who reached out of the Cockpit with the the venerable can of Club Soda and cleaned his windshield on a turn-around! Sighted by a I** member performing this "Contract Violation" ..... 4 1/2 hours pay was demanded .. and I understand was paid. Similar was a a 4 1/2 Hr pay claim that was filed against a Captain that took a garbage bag ( the big black ones we used in my days) from the Galley and placed it on the Jetway!

So now the time has come to "pay the Piper". Yes indeed .... Management is indeed to blame for most of this failure. And so is the economy ... and 9-11, LCC's and everyone else you can think of is partly to blame. But the reality is that You are all about to lose your jobs, and there are not many replacment jobs out there! The mentalities that have fostered the situations mentioned above are obsolete in this day and age! The "power"of the Unions is gone .... forever! No longer can the Unions demand ... but they can negotiate ... and this is good. Without them you can kiss all the Bennies ... health insurance, sick time , vacation days, retirement ... etc, etc ..... Goodbye!

The " Full Pay To The Last Day" Union demand is about to be replaced with the Corporate Policy of "A Full Days' Pay For A Full Days' Work!" You better believe it 'cause that is what lies ahead!

Bless You All in these difficult times!

 

[cavalier]

Now this is one of the most Honorable posts I have ever read within this Forum! I have only Praise for someone like yourself who understand the meaning of Integrity.

Seems to me that most of the I** folks posting here do not understand that "sick days" are intended as a cost free insurance against loss of pay when one is ill. This sort of "income protection" is readily available on the consumer market and you do have to pay for it. So a Contract is negotiated ... and this sort of insurance is included at no cost to the Employee. One of the Benefits of working for a good Company!

But some folks see this as a an oppourtunity to steal ....as I see it along the lines of "keying" their own car or driving it into a lake to get a new paint job or a new car! Sound rediculious?? No ... it is the same as calling in sick fraudulently. An abuse of valuable employee benefit!

I cannot help but to recall the I** grievence against a fellow pilot who reached out of the Cockpit with the the venerable can of Club Soda and cleaned his windshield on a turn-around! Sighted by a I** member performing this "Contract Violation" ..... 4 1/2 hours pay was demanded .. and I understand was paid. Similar was a a 4 1/2 Hr pay claim that was filed against a Captain that took a garbage bag ( the big black ones we used in my days) from the Galley and placed it on the Jetway!

So now the time has come to "pay the Piper". Yes indeed .... Management is indeed to blame for most of this failure. And so is the economy ... and 9-11, LCC's and everyone else you can think of is partly to blame. But the reality is that You are all about to lose your jobs, and there are not many replacment jobs out there! The mentalities that have fostered the situations mentioned above are obsolete in this day and age! The "power"of the Unions is gone .... forever! No longer can the Unions demand ... but they can negotiate ... and this is good. Without them you can kiss all the Bennies ... health insurance, sick time , vacation days, retirement ... etc, etc ..... Goodbye!

The " Full Pay To The Last Day" Union demand is about to be replaced with the Corporate Policy of "A Full Days' Pay For A Full Days' Work!" You better believe it 'cause that is what lies ahead!

Bless You All in these difficult times!

Sir, you and openview can swell yourselves with integrity all day long. Integrity doesn't pay my bills nor get me to the gates of heaven.

FYI___I recently interviewed with a major carrier and they sure didn't go back three years on my attendance.


Happy Holiday All and remember our VETS who made this forum even possible so we could all whine, cry, debate, bithch and moan!