F/a Sick Calls And No Contacts

[MarkMyWords]

Cav -

The entire threads discussion is not out of my grasp of reality. I fully understand the issues at hand. I understand that employees are coming to work sick. I understand that stress causes illness. I realize that the pay penalty is unfair. I also acknowledge that the company has a huge hand in taking the majority of the blame for how things are panning out. But I also don't bury my head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge that there are abuses to the sick policy and it is those abuses that have lead to the rules in place and the additional scrutiny. Do i agree with the pay penalty? No. Do I agree with the additional scrutiny? Yes. I have seen 100's of examples of where people have abused their sick time, FMLA, OJI, etc. These abuses are litterally stealing money from the company and threaten our financial well being. I do feel sorry for the people that are legitimatly sick and have to jump through hoops to get what they are entitled to. Who is really to blame? The company for trying to close loopholes and stop abuses, or the employees that continue to try and rob the company blind?

PitBull -

Finally we are getting somewhere. So in actuality, the company truely screwed things up with the pay penalty. They made it more advantageous for employees to call in sick for more trips and stay out longer, versus coming to work as soon as they feel better. This could also account for part of the higher levels of sick calls, along with the fact that people are coming to work sick and spreading their germs to one another and the stress factor. The company also put into place an unfair sick policy that disadvantages everyone versus penalizing the true abusers.

Solution - Management admitts that they screwed up and created an unfair policy. Sit down with AFA and hammer out an equitable solution along the lines of what we were talking about. Reducing sick hour accrual, penalizing those with little or no sick time available.

I have another question for you.....with the new reserve system, will trips be covered 2 days out like the pilots? If I understand what I am hearing correctly, reserves will be used strictly to cover sick calls, trip repairs and operational issues. If that is the case, perhaps they could set some kind of On Duty TIme for F/A's similar to the PT times for Pilots. That would be after we get through the learning curve of the new system and see how things panned out. So if you are a reserve, instead of being on call 24 hours a day while you are on duty, perhaps they could have 12 hour duty periods where you could be called out to work. Stagger the start times according to charted operational needs based on past experiences. If there is a major operational problem forecasted - say a snow storm or hurricane - then the On Duty Times would not be issued and you would be on call for that 24 hour period. Again, this would all be based on how things pan out with the new system. If we are covering trips 2 days out, then I can plan my reserve coverage for the next day and issue PT times to the reserves. This would take mutual cooperation on the part of the employees and the company. If a reserve is sick, then they need to notify scheduling that they are not available so PT times could be adjusted accordingly and coverage guaranteed throughout the day.

Again, these are just rough ideas off the top of my head. I would hope that someone like Chris, Jerry, Dave, Al or someone with some pull in CCY would read these threads and see 1 - the new sick policy isn't working. 2 - there may be better ideas out there 3 - open up lines of cooperation with the unions. But AFA would also have to conceed some things along the way too. Make the policies fair and equitable. There can not be a higher cost associated the new attendance / sick policy and there has to be a way to reduce the ability to abuse the system.

Best of luck.....I hope that someone reads this and makes an effort to right some of the wrongs......employees and management.

 

[cavalier]

Cav -

The entire threads discussion is not out of my grasp of reality. I fully understand the issues at hand. I understand that employees are coming to work sick. I understand that stress causes illness. I realize that the pay penalty is unfair. I also acknowledge that the company has a huge hand in taking the majority of the blame for how things are panning out. But I also don't bury my head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge that there are abuses to the sick policy and it is those abuses that have lead to the rules in place and the additional scrutiny. Do i agree with the pay penalty? No. Do I agree with the additional scrutiny? Yes. I have seen 100's of examples of where people have abused their sick time, FMLA, OJI, etc. These abuses are litterally stealing money from the company and threaten our financial well being. I do feel sorry for the people that are legitimatly sick and have to jump through hoops to get what they are entitled to. Who is really to blame? The company for trying to close loopholes and stop abuses, or the employees that continue to try and rob the company blind?

I personally know all about FMLA and OJI to which you make reference. The way you see it even these policies are being abused! Give me a break. For those policies to be abused one needs an unscrupulous doctor’s cooperation for this to occur. So now even with a doctor’s orders this is not good enough because every employee is considered abusing policy in your eyes. Granted in every crowd they will be and is “some†abuse, it’s called human nature. But if you look at the big picture plainly stated to you in this thread the overall picture shows something else occurring here. People are REALLY sick which is a direct result of this management team’s actions. If the employees of U followed in the footsteps of this management’s action, and were lead by example, NO one would come to work because they ALL would be abusing sick time. WHY? Because they would all be following the lead of a conniving perfidious management team bent on union busting at any and all costs. This is obvious when they don’t care if people are coming to work too ill to function. You will never convince me overwise because I am convinced you are either management or blinded to the facts at hand.

 

[firstamendment]

What really amazes me is management's inability to understand that if there truly IS such rampant sick time abuse, perhaps there is a reason linked to their managing tactics. Sleezegle and his croonies have made blanket statements about the flight attendant group as a whole. His opinion seems to be that ALL the f/a's abuse their sick calls. Has it ever occurred to these brainiacs that THEY have created an airline that everyone is so embarrassed to work for that they would rather stay home? Example: Here we have been invited to join the Star Alliance starting sometime in 2004. So what do the inflight wizards do? They pulled glassware out of First Class, cheapened Envoy Class on transatlantic, and started charging for headsets and liguor on transatlantic economy class. Management says we are at airline standards, however this is an outright lie. Regardless to what the other US carriers do, United and the other Star Alliance partners do not follow our "industry standards". Who takes the heat when these inept decisions are made? You got it...the f/a's. I have seen too many passengers completely enraged at these policies. What is sad is that we all know this was a decision to pocket as much money as possible until the BOD at Star says to stop those cheapening decisions. This along with the nasty planes and lack of supplies needed. And lets not forget the cheap, tired ,paper thin pieces of clothing we call a uniform that is as outdated as my 87 year old grannies wardrobe. We now look like the upstart carriers of past, who had little money to spend. I know $$$$$$$$, but we have the money to give a $300 voucher to 261 passengers because U didn't have enough pilots and the LGW flight went out 5 hours late. $78,000.00!!! But the f/a's walk around looking like a junior high school chorus. Any other reasons the f/a group may be over this place? I think we all want to be proud of our company. Collectively it just ain't there and I just don't see management changing that anytime soon. That would be admitting they were wrong. It reminds me of the logic in continuing an unpopular war...we are too far into it and can't pull out now. That would show we are weak.

Do some people abuse the sick time? Sure, but to create an atmosphere of anger and discust among the f/a group provides no useful purpose. It only gives reaon for many to provide the abuse accused of out of defiance.

 

[usacrew3]

Has anyone discussed the mental well being of the flight crews lately? With everything that the crews have been subjected to during the last year it is little wonder that people are starting to lose it.

 

[Justaramper]

PitBull...I'll assume you have been in the Union Business for some time. As you know you "fight the fights" you can WIN and leave others to stand on there merits. The employee is NOT always RIGHT, and neither in Management. Look at both sides of the issue and get both sides of the story, then make a decision as to how to defend

Your "sick time" has been a subject of a bitter dispute with the company, could it be some of your members are the source of the problem..? All class/craft have certain members who abuse sick time/FMLA and it seems we ALL pay the price for that. A certain % do put there personal lives ahead of there work obligations and at times WE pay the price for there decisions

I don't like the harsh rules for sick time, but what other solution do you have...? We do have obligations to this company and we must honor those obligations. Coming to work is one of those obligations. I'm being realistic about this situation. I can't use other contractual problems to justify calling in sick. Can we handle one problem at a time..?

 

[Retired1]

Well mass punishment just isnt right. Im sure every F/A has a paper trail and it wouldnt take a MBA to go thru the list to see who had the problems. Then a closer individual look could confirm or deny abuse.

 

[PITbull]

Justaramper,

Thank you for responding to this issue. As you know, when I speak about the "sick" issue it is not just about f/as.

I don't know what "school of thought you come from", but MOST folks in society do not live for the job. Their families and loved ones take precedence in their lives.

What this mangement has done is taken the "lowest common denomenator ", (abusers of sick) and made "new policy that HARSHLY effects EVERY EMPLOYEE (except management, of course).



HOWEVER....

You need to know where I am coming from on the above. What this management has done is used the "lowest common denominator" and assumes that ALL employees are abusers when they call in sick. IMO, they view every employee who is sick (no matter if you have been the best empoyee and have been here for years) as a liability and a potential risk to the corporation (and their bottom line), as soon as the employee calls in sick.

That is WHY this issue is huge to me, and I have positioned myself on the extreme LEFT side of this equation/issue.

And, I will not move from there, until management changes this "new policy".

 

[PITbull]

USAcrew3,

If you look at, I think page 7 or 8, I have addressed what you speak of.

 

[N628AU]

PITBull,

I agree that when someone calls out sick, they should not be bothered by the company. What I was getting at is that if they are on call and contacted by the company for a trip, and then say they are sick, I have an issue with that. It raises too many red flags to say you are sick after the fact, even if you really are.

As for HIPPA and the contracts, the contracts were signed before HIPPA took effect. HIPPA did not take effect until the spring. It would be interesting if someone challenged that clause of the contract in court now that HIPPA has taken effect. I am not an attorney, so I have no idea what the potential outcome is there. What the contract is basically making you do is give up a right you have under federal law which was not in effect on the contract date.

 

[Justaramper]

PitBull....First of all, where do you get off making the ASSUMPTION, I live for my job...? I merely stated a fact that an employee has obligations to work , I know there are family obligations and it's a "balancing act" at times.. We all have had to do that and try to keep peace withing the family and the workplace...

I'm "trying" to get you to look at BOTH sides of the issue, as it does effect all of the employees. Each class/craft has it's share of "abusers" and they cause "heartache" to the good employees . So where does the company "draw the line"...? Is it "fair" to require a DR's note each time I'm sick..? Or does my attendance record speak for itself..? What happens if my child is sick and needs my attention..?

You can't treat every employee the same, because the ones who abuse have NO RULES.They just keep making it harder for the rest of us, when we are sick and can't come to work. Do you understand WHY the company gets upset with this issue..? Or do you just see one side...?

 

[PITbull]

Justaramper,

Your quote: Your "sick time" has been a subject of a bitter dispute with the company, could it be some of your members are the source of the problem..? All class/craft have certain members who abuse sick time/FMLA and it seems we ALL pay the price for that. A certain % do put there personal lives ahead of there work obligations and at times WE pay the price for there decisions

Most employees "personal lives" have to do with family or a loved one.


I have the intellect to see both sides of the equation. As I have stated, I have taken the LEFT position on this issue, because this management was inept enough to make a policy by taking the "lowest common denominator" and making that their basis for creating such absurdity. We pay the price, as you put it, because management made it that way. There is no way in hell any corporation gets rid of some sick abuse. And, I am talking abuse when it comes to using sick for other than an illness. Keep in mind, that "mental health" is also very important, and in the medical health community, is just as imortant to maintain as physical well-being. There is a human factor to every kind of job that uses humans. Management does not want to recognize this because their is a cost to it.

It shows much laziness on the part of our senior management who think they know how to make policy to solve a problem. And that problem has been identified by management that ALL employees when sick are LIABILITIES. As you must know, the sick calls have increased. But you have to look at the fact that we are much LESS employees on the property. So when you are comparing % from year to year, it will look as though the sick calls have increased, as there are less folks on the property to make "references". The other issue that I can not stress enough on these boards is that " employees ARE really sick". You, along with mangement still maintain it is rampant abuse.

If you don't think so, please reread my post regarding the health problems that high levels of stress and anxiety and depression directly cause. I didn't make this stuff up, it is my field and I make it my business.

If you can't fathom this as true, then I suggest you do your own research.

 

[Justaramper]

PitBull...EVERY job has it's "stress" level and" mental health problems", we aren't "special" to those. To protect the guilty at the price of the innocent is not the logical way. If every absence was justified, then how many of us would come to work..? I'm sure we all could come up with an excuse to stay out..

Is there a solution to the attendance policy..? Corporate America is still trying to figure one out. Until then, they will set forth "harsh" guidelines. But, haven't we been our own worst enemy..?

There has to be some cooperation between the Union and the Company on this issue

My contract states the following line:

Employees covered by this agreement and the UNION recognize the OBLIGATIONS of employees of being truthful and honest in preventing unnecessary absences or other abuses of sick leave privileges. Employees may be required to present confirmation of illness and the Company reserves the right to require, when in doubt of a bona fide claim. Abuse of sick leave privileges may subject the employee to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

Doesn't yours say the same...?

 

[stewbear]

Folks...
This is no joke and it is certainly a problem. I had a coworker crying last night because she had a situation where she was indeed in personal pain and needed some time off. She felt she could not call off because of the immense monetary loss that would have incurred. which would have caused another stress in her life. This type of worry is happening to some of the best employees because they worked hard and made sure they had plenty of sick time and now they feel so lost as to what to do. They feel as tho if was all for nothing. I'm very familiar with the old "buck up and take it" mentality but this isn't working. Some of us are a bit tougher than others and we should realize that. Our troops need some relief. Is there anyone out there who can see this and help? And to tell you the truth...It's sad to even have to ask...Where's the humanity?

 

[PITbull]

justaramper,

No. Our contract does not read the same. We have better language and more specific. However, management is "busting" the language and imrovising to target the employee for any "lost time".

But your comments do lead me to say this:

What brings most folks to work in any job is "integrity" driven to do the right thing, set good examples for our children and families, and self respect and personal pride.

This Country is the greatest in the world, not because of strict "sick plicies", my freind, but because most rational, reasonable, people, (which I think most Americans are) really strive to be the best that they can be. That is why our colleges and universities are filled with students of ALL ages. They don't spend the money to educate themselves to "be off work", but rather to work and succeed at whatever profession they choose. Give your fellow collegue the benefit of your doubt.

I am disheartened that you have such a low opinion of the "worker" in America as you imply above.

Stewbear,

You know very well the problem out there. I have been asking for help from someone and it falls to deaf ears as you can attest on these boards. We will again take this to the public.

 

[Justaramper]

Lets see...Low opinion of the worker and the assumption that I live for my job are two things you have stated about me...Once again these are your OPINIONS and far from the facts. Not to be able to see BOTH sides of an issue is a big problem here..

I'm sure your contract has better language, that is why your on this borad complaining that the Company is tormenting your fellow employees about the use of Sick Time..?

Go ahead take it to the public, but REALIZE the Company has as many facts as you do and the public may not want to listen to your side of the issue