F/a Sick Calls And No Contacts

[Dilligas]

I hope people will keep in mind the other factors flight attendants face just in doing their job each day.

-Irregular and interrupted sleep patterns
-Exposure to, and contact with hundreds of people with various germs and illnesses
-Exposure to cabin air for long periods of time
-Exposure to high degrees of radiation due to spending long periods of time at high altitude

and many more.

They are going to get sick more than the office crew. And now they are coming to work sick more than before, so the cycle escalates.

It's not a job I'd want. oh yeah, the glamour of being a flight attendant these days 🙄

 

[PITbull]

Dilligas,

Thank you for broadening the scope of what I stated above, and taking the time to injest it all.

I wrote above what is effecting ALL employees of U, not just f/as, but I thank you for exposing many of the problems that are just endemic to our group that most can not even conceptulize.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

Don't go there with me, you have ignored he issues I have sencerely presented.

The company has already suggested "peer pressure" as an incentive to pressure those employees to NOT call in sick. So as a result of pay penalities, folks come to work ill do not endure the pay penalty, and infect many others while working their 4 day trip or whatever days they are flying. Giving someone $50 or $100 to NOT call in sick, is actually the company giving the employee the incentive to come to work ill and possibly infect others. That to me, is not a solution. Mangement has done what you said, only thing is, they have given the pay penalty of at the very least $200 for starters. But, the sick calls have not decreased, they have increased.

If I follow your thinking that it is still sick abuse, then mangement will just have to impose penalties more severe than pay, and instead discipline to termination. Which, my friend, has begun. Because, like you implied, it just can not be that employees could really be ill. They just have to be faking it. What the heck, pay penalties and termination is what most employees want to happen anyway.

You spoke about coming to meet a client while you were sick. Do you want me to pat you on the back for coming to meet a client ill. I should pat you on the back for possibly infecting him while you sell him something. Did he know that by meeting you he also may have acquired your infection? And this is a good thing? For whom? Your company? Perhaps. For the client? How so?

I am not in the business of being defiant. You may perceive this on these boards. I am on the inside, therefore, you could not possibly know what I know.

I state THE FACTS. Short of exposing you to e-mails I have from f/as who are flying ill, they are coming to work sick. No one is getting a "free ride". Mangement has put in place "protections" for the corporation to ensure that IF and WHEN the employees get sick from all these abuses by the employer, company will be free from liability from any sickness they may have caused the employee.

YOU do not see that. Pick up a contract and read it.

Incentives will not work for employees who are truly sick. That is WHY you do not see improvements in sick calls, because the huge pay penalites that are in place $200 and up, still keep the sick call high.

I did not say you are management type. I stated you think like management when it comes to the issue of employee sick.

So, think of something else other than what you think is obvious and in front of your nose.

 

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull -

I fully understand your points, and they are valid in most instances. Yes, more employees may be coming to work sick, but they are obviously not so sick that they can't work. By all means if you are truly sick then you should stay home and take care of yourself, I do not begrudge anyone that. What I have a problem with is people who aren't in base when they should be. People calling off sick because they have something better to do. Employees that feel that sick time is time they earned to take when ever they feel like it, sick or not. Employees that live out of base, get overnights there, and call off sick because they don't want to (or can't) commute back at the end of the trip. You may think that it doesn't happen, but it does - penalty or not penalty.

What you fail to recognize is that there are abuses to sick time. Those same abuses are what caused the sick penalty. Again, the company is penalizing everyone because they can't just target offenders. People do still call in sick because they are unable to commute, or fail to plan for irregularities. There are still people that call in sick for a whole host of reasons, except that they are really sick. It happens. I know it happens. Yes it happens in all departments across the company, but does that make it right? Could the pay penalty have been avoided if your union would have negotiated the accumulation of less sick hours per month versus a pay penalty? Most of the other unions negotiated accumulating less sick time but kept their pay whole. I am not sure if that was an option for AFA or not. Wouldn't that have penalized the abusers versus everyone? If I am a good employee and have hundreds of hours of sick time, then calling in sick when I am legitimitly sick is no big deal. If I am an abuser with no sick time left and call in sick, then I go unpaid.

Again, I do recognize that the environment that you work in does lend itself to more exposure to sickness because of the confinement of the work area. I also recognize that there are more illnesses that would require a F/A to call in sick that would not have the same effect on someone on the ground - things like a sinus infection or ear ache - things that could be made worse with the changes in cabin pressure. That being said, there are still plenty of abusers out there. They may not tell YOU the truth if you ask, but it does happen daily.

As for the increase in the number of sick calls, let me ask you this...is the pay penalty reduced if you are sick for 2 four day trips versus 1? Again, I do not profess to know all the ins and outs of your contract and the sick penalty, I am just asking.

I agree that an incentive plan does encourage people to come to work while sick, to some degree. Again, if you are really sick and cna't come to work, then you can't come to work. No arguement there. Take care of yourself. But having an incentive program would keep those that call in sick for marginal reasons to rethink their sick call. Perhaps it would be more of an incentive for the commuters to be in base when they were supposed to be. Maybe it would stop some of the frivolous sick calls. I am not so sure Bob's idea would work in a department of 5500 employees, but who's to say that you couldn't have bonuses for reducing lost time. What if you were given a FF account and every month you didn't call in sick 1000 miles were deposited into you FF account. If you called in sick once, then 500 miles were deducted from your account, twice 1000 miles deducted. Then there could be other ways to earn additional miles. Again it is a rough suggestion. I like the idea of earning points for merchandise, lotteries for cars or vacations. Something is better then nothing.

 

[wrx]

It sure sounds like US Airways took a page out of the Delta sick policies. I have 3 Delta f/a's in my crashpad and they said you have to get a Doctor's note if you call in sick (waived if you have 0-1 occurrences). Delta crew scheduling will ask you what you have when you call in sick and if you refuse to tell them you have to meet with your supervisor before you can fly again (by law you don't have to tell them). At least you guys at US Airways have a union to protect you.

Did US Airways get someone from Delta to write the new sick policy?

 

[repeet]

It looks to me like this thread should be reported to the C.D.C..

Knowingly spreading disease should be illegal!

 

[USAirBoyA330]

PITBull:
Speaking of sick.....
Where in the *@^*&% are the decisions on these expedited grievances? God knows we have a ton of them out there. This process is slower than Grandma's Molasses in winter. I know we are waiting on ALPA in reguarde to the sick policy but, can someone find out what the hang up is? And then what about the new reserve F/A system that goes into effect in 1 month? Wasn't a ruling or desision imminet on that a week ago as well? We are all just flapping in the breeze as usual.

 

[PITbull]

MMW,

I am of the premise that you read all of my posts regarding the sick issue on this topic.

You did not fully repsond to what I presented with regard to the illnesses related to high levels of anxiety and stress. Ignoring that issue and dismissing it as if it does not exist is why sick calls are high and increasing.

When I spoke about employee morale and mental health disorders, I was referring to my observation for all employees; not just my employee group.

You state that management could not just target the abusers...I ask why not?

If you really think about the issue (and I know you are wise enough to broaden your thought process here) management knew very well what they were doing with the sick pay penalties. The pay penalties do not touch the abusers, because they have no sick time, therefore there is no pay penalty. In the winter, it was discussed on reducing the number of sick occurences from 5 to 4 or taking away the 5 hour bank accrual for those who call in sick in a month (we have a 5 hour bank accrual for not calling in sick for the month). So in that respect, there is already an incentive to NOT call in sick because you collect 5 hours of banked time to go into your bank.

I am telling you my freind, your solution is no solution. That is because your employees are suffering illnesses that they would not be suffering if this management focused on building employee morale and spirit.

The most important approach to begin the healing process, is get rid of the "heavy handed" philosophy and punitive disciplines for frivolous infractions.

Stop targeting employees and expediting discipline levels in order to terminate employees and get them off the property.

Stop violating contract language, stop with the furloughing, stop with the doom and gloom scenerio eveytime the management leadership speaks.

You asked for some solutions and I have just presented it.

If you start there, I believe the sick issue will decline substantially.



Obviously, management's solution and remedy to sick calls is not working.

 

[PITbull]

USA330boy,

MEC met yesterday in a 9 hour session regarding the Reserve system.

Details will be out. Union meetings will be held starting in mid October. The negotiating committee will discuss this issue and present it.

PIT local meeting will be on Oct. 22 and CLT will be Oct. 21. I believe PHL has a tentative date for Oct. 23.

Its not good, but taking it to arbitration with the same "mediater" would not have yeilded improvements to the reserve system. The arabitrator rendered his opinion, vote was taken and passed by the MEC. There are some improvements to the system that the mediater ruled on that would not have been given if AFA would not have taken the issue to mediation.

Details to follow.

 

[N628AU]

The issue I see with this is simple. If a reserve FA (or pilot for that matter), calls in sick before being contacted by the company, they are sick, and with the Hippa regs, the company cannot by federal law obtain medical information via a doctors note.

However, if the company calls while that crewmember is "on call", then we have a problem and the hammer needs to be brought down on them. Or if this crewmember is on call, and cannot be reached, they need to be disciplined. It is rather black and white to me. PITBull, is there something more than that I am missing?

 

[PITbull]

N6,

I am not sure what you are trying to present.

If the employee (reserve, or block holder, or any employee at U) is sick and is within their contractual days, they should NOT be contacted by the company at all unless management can DEMONSTRATE that the sick call is NOT legitimate. Then they can ask for a doctor's note with dx, px, an plan of tx. In the f/as contract, when management asks for a doctor's note (within the 5 sick call year occurence) the company gets the bill.

Regarding the HIPPA regs, the law protects patients and individuals by making it illegal for anyone to give or obtain information without the patients (employees) permission. Within our contract, it is a matter of staying employed if the employee does NOT permit the physician to release this information. A physician is obligated to release information as long as the physician or medical institution or any one has permission from the patient (employee). Then there is no violation of the HIPPA regulation. Again, for us it is in our contract that we MUST release this type of detailed information to the employer.

However, in our contract, the employer must demonstrate reasons why he/she thinks a sick call is not legitimate.
Otherwise, it is a violation of our contract.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Now I understand why nothing gets done in company/union negotiations....no one can even agree on what the problem is, none the less address it with an equitable solution. It is like beating your head against the wall.

Question:

Could the pay penalty have been avoided if your union would have negotiated the accumulation of less sick hours per month versus a pay penalty? Most of the other unions negotiated accumulating less sick time but kept their pay whole. I am not sure if that was an option for AFA or not. Wouldn't that have penalized the abusers versus everyone? If I am a good employee and have hundreds of hours of sick time, then calling in sick when I am legitimitly sick is no big deal. If I am an abuser with no sick time left and call in sick, then I go unpaid.

Is the pay penalty reduced if you are sick for 2 four day trips versus 1?

I do realize that stress can have an impact on the health and well being of employees and have advocated that the company take a more up front and honest stance with the employees. The continual birage of negativity, doom and gloom does no one any good and does not motivate employees. The constant threat of outsourcing jobs and lack of committment one way or another is another way to keep employees under that cloud of fear. Those tactics need to stop. The need to be forthright with their decision on things like the Airbus S checks. Their decision to contract out deicing in PIT may have been better received if the company would have come out and actually shown employees the cost savings involved adn why it made sense to outsource the work, versus surprising them with an article int eh news paper.

That said you still need to find a way to deal with those that abuse the sick policy like the examples sighted above. The do exsist and need to be dealt with.

 

[cavalier]

That said you still need to find a way to deal with those that abuse the sick policy like the examples sighted above. The do exsist and need to be dealt with.

This entire thread’s crystal clear explanations for cause of sick time is obviously out of your reach of understanding.

You are ignoring the FACTS presented and looking at what YOU believe is true when reality is not what you believe it is.

This management is the sole cause of the sick time being used with their relentless union busting tactics deployed at all departments and levels. Most sane humans find it very difficult to function in the environment this management has created, an environment of employee discontent, confusion, deception, lies, uncertainly, threats and many other negative producing emotions. This is what they believe it takes to break down the unions and have their way with labor without any resistance. It’s like being a prisoner of war wondering if you will survive and how long you can remain sane while taking the torture being inflicted. You acknowledge this with a bow of the head then dismiss it with your ranting of abuse all over again. WHAT ABOUT the abuse this management is bestowing upon the employees? Why is it you see through one way glasses believing it's all about bad employees? You see it as though management is faultless and therefore helpless to stop what you perceive to be abuse of sick time. The FACTS are right out there screaming at you and you refuse to accept them as they are. You are a showcase example of the perfectly flawless cohort produced by this union busting management, they love you

 

[PITbull]

MMW,

Answer to your question is YES. If management would have instead approached us with a proposal to reduce banked hour accrual per month, Or a 5 hour "NO ACCRUAL for the month, if you call in sick that month, that would have been equitable. For those f/as who have no banked time left, they would have been penalized by having no bank time to even accrual. Keep in mind these folks who abuse sick usually get disciplined up to and including termination. Therefore there is already in place a system whereby to punish abusers. However, what the company went and did, IMO, is target those who are not sick or abuse sick, and CAPPED there ability to make themselves "whole" on the eare occasions they do call in sick. THOSE are the folks that endure the pay penalties.

I believe the company's intent was to punish ANY employee who is sick, legitimate or otherwise, lump them all together, and make sure that they will never be a lilability to the corporation. Obviously, mangement has not moved off of this knowing that there has been no improvement in decreasing the sick calls and even with our protest telling them you have approached this from the wrong perspective, and are looking at incorrect causes.

We will be in DCA when the arbitration is being heard on the sick on Oct. 7 and our planning a leaflet in front of the building protesting the sick pay penalties that are still not equitable, violates our restructuring ratified agreements, and forces f/as to come to work sick.

Yes. there is less of a penalty in pay if you call off for more than half the month....go figure who thought this up. The worse peanlty is calling off on one trip instead of multiple trips.

Person (s) who thought this up needs to be thrown off the property.

 

[BostonTerrier]

Likewise, I got hit with a nice "reserve sick" penalty a few months ago with one sick call that bridged two months (27th-4th); one sick call, two months of penalty. The financial hit was most definitely felt; but what are you supposed to do when you're under a strict "no fly" order from your doc?

Lesson learned? Get sick at the beginning of the month; if unable to do so limp/gasp/sneeze your way around the system until the first of the month hits.