Flight Attendant Sick Calls

[AAStew]

I don't know where you live, but we have a huge flu epidemic in STL. 300+ kids out of my daughter's school. Hospitals are over-loaded and swamped. My son is in the hospital and everyone (many) are wearing masks. I have never seen so many contact isolation rooms (gown and glove before entering) We have a policy at work, don't come in if you're sick. Not abused and if family members are ill we allow work from home vs infecting others. Treat employees like adults and MOST will respond in kind. There will always be the exception. Deal with that on an individual basis.

Nancy, I was lucky enough to get that during my vacation in January. :down: At one point my breathing was so labored I asked my husband to take me to the emergency room. It has really hit hard in the New England states, here in Virginia it's bad but nowhere near the numbers they are seeing.

Garfield, you are correct about the one size fits none, but that is where the human factor should come in. Otherwise, why not just let automated computers deal with it, rid ourselves of all this 1st level supervisory management and save the company some money?

 

[jimntx]

We have a policy at work, don't come in if you're sick.

But Nancy, that would make too much sense. We had the same policy at Texaco...if you are sick PLEASE do not come to work and spread it around. I'm guessing AA has the same policy for office personnel. However, for f/as the policy is "unless you are dead, an absence will get you progressed in the attendance disciplinary system. So will personal death unless you notify your FSM at least 3 days in advance of the absence."

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Neither do you.

Speaking of self-righteous, look in the mirror.

You make me laugh (I'm sure that happens to you a lot.) "Paranoid victim" describes you and your TWA victim mentality to a "T," as in TWA.

Is that like "T" as in "Time to feed the cats?"

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Let them(AA) threaten all they want. Go into a sick discussion WITH A UNION STEWARD, and file your nails, never even making eye contact with the A$$ Hole "counseling you.

There is NOT an arbitrator Alive, that will UP HOLD a firing, if you have ROCK SOLID MEDICAL documentation, coupled w/SK time on the books.

(Obviously, I'm not talking about the F/A that always calls in on S/S only)

Even the Piss poor TWU has language in the book, that states..."Sick time is to be used Only for It's Intended purpose................Meaning if your sick, and a FRIGGIN Dr. says your sick.

Try to get on FMLA. Once you "master' That, FMLA is UNTOUCHABLE by the Co.

AA knows that the average, make that 95+ % of employees can not afford the off payroll time, to ultimately BEAT them via an Arbitrator, or a Court.

Ever notice that they never F**K with a union steward ! They HATE that code.."UB"(union business)


Another thing.

That "self managed" BULL SH!T sounds like the CRAP the NON-Union agents have.
How on earth did you guys ever get "saddled" with THAT mess ?

 

[Garfield1966]

Garfield, you are correct about the one size fits none, but that is where the human factor should come in. Otherwise, why not just let automated computers deal with it, rid ourselves of all this 1st level supervisory management and save the company some money?

I think I would rather have a one size fits none than a 'human" factor. I have a tendency to speak my mind and trust me I piss of management just as much as I piss some off here. I honestly do not care if people like what I have to say. I have to walk on tip toes enough as it is, having a set policy for SK is one less thing I have to worry about screwing me over on.


Jim,

Let me be your tour guide to reality. I am a level to manager (Go figure) and I am on the same self/non-self managed sick policy as you are on. It does seem to be a little easier with a small work group and no union to get involved. If someone is sick and needs to go home/stay home they can try and use comp/TL and if manning is OK they can get it with out having to worry about someone senior getting pissed off because it was not offered to them. We all try and work with each other and it tends to work out quite well.

By the way, if I have a doctors note, I am fine also. Not sure why I would need a union to get involved with me being sick.

 

[nbmcg01]

Nancy, I was lucky enough to get that during my vacation in January. :down: At one point my breathing was so labored I asked my husband to take me to the emergency room. It has really hit hard in the New England states, here in Virginia it's bad but nowhere near the numbers they are seeing.

Garfield, you are correct about the one size fits none, but that is where the human factor should come in. Otherwise, why not just let automated computers deal with it, rid ourselves of all this 1st level supervisory management and save the company some money?

Off subject: Where do you live in Va? I grew up in Lexington, with some Roanoke thrown in for good measure. Went to Hollins, but spent more time at W&L.

ps..I just suggested that one of my staff go home.

 

[jimntx]

Jim,

Let me be your tour guide to reality. I am a level to manager (Go figure) and I am on the same self/non-self managed sick policy as you are on. It does seem to be a little easier with a small work group and no union to get involved. If someone is sick and needs to go home/stay home they can try and use comp/TL and if manning is OK they can get it with out having to worry about someone senior getting pissed off because it was not offered to them. We all try and work with each other and it tends to work out quite well.

By the way, if I have a doctors note, I am fine also. Not sure why I would need a union to get involved with me being sick.

We don't have compensatory time. We don't get credit for sitting in the airport for 3 extra hours during an ATC hold. (Come to think of it, we don't get credit for sitting in airports period. ) With us a Doctor's note does not clear you of your sick call. Only if you were sick for 4 or more days and you can charge it to FMLA. And, I have always thought that the AMR implementation or FMLA as it relates to flight attendants borders on the illegal. It forces the flight attendant to burn sick time and FMLA time concurrently to avoid an "occurrence."

What the FMLA says is that a company covered by the act must grant each employee up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave in a calendar year before they can terminate said employee for absenteeism. The law was passed while I was still working at Texaco. Now, since no company is required to grant paid sick leave to anyone, the Texaco legal department's interpretation of the law was that the employee must exhaust all other paid leave--accrued sick and vacation time, comp time, etc--before FMLA started. I had a friend at Texaco who had never abused her sick leave. She had so much accrued sick leave that when she developed cancer, she remained on the payroll for her entire absence which ended up being over a year. Of course, because she had not abused her sick time in the past, the company continued paying her even though her sick leave and vacation had been used up (not something I ever see AMR doing ).

 

[Mach85ER]

Garfield,


From the Flight Crew Side, I think you and most of AA management makes a serious mistake when comparing sick usage practices. Although we can agree that a decade long pattern of sudden illness on Xmas eve is a problem, there is a multitude of other illnesses that wouldn't keep anyone out of the typical workday in an AMR cubicle, but can cause greater problems in the air. As Jimntx mentioned, it's always amazed me the attitude at AA regarding sick employees. Back when we were hiring FA's, we had first year pay FA's so scared to call in sick, yet they would end up coughing and hacking near Widebody Captains at the top pay scale, no doubt passing on the illness and maybe getting more sick pay in 2 weeks than the FA was paid in 6 months.

Start requiring everybody in SOC to spend a couple of hours a day in an elevator or closet with another hacking employee, and you'll see things differently

 

[Flyboy4u]

The sick policy at AA is absurd...I am currently looking at filing a discrimination lawsit against the company based on FMLA disqualification on the basis of sexual orientation. This very company gives my partner " Full " beneits including health, but when he is extremely ill ( possibly fatal ) the company denies FMLA to domestic partners. Those of you out there flying who have domestic partners, I hope nothing serious happens to them. You can very well be terminated for caring for them.


What Unity?

 

[Garfield1966]

We don't have compensatory time. We don't get credit for sitting in the airport for 3 extra hours during an ATC hold. (Come to think of it, we don't get credit for sitting in airports period. ) With us a Doctor's note does not clear you of your sick call. Only if you were sick for 4 or more days and you can charge it to FMLA. And, I have always thought that the AMR implementation or FMLA as it relates to flight attendants borders on the illegal. It forces the flight attendant to burn sick time and FMLA time concurrently to avoid an "occurrence."

What the FMLA says is that a company covered by the act must grant each employee up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave in a calendar year before they can terminate said employee for absenteeism. The law was passed while I was still working at Texaco. Now, since no company is required to grant paid sick leave to anyone, the Texaco legal department's interpretation of the law was that the employee must exhaust all other paid leave--accrued sick and vacation time, comp time, etc--before FMLA started. I had a friend at Texaco who had never abused her sick leave. She had so much accrued sick leave that when she developed cancer, she remained on the payroll for her entire absence which ended up being over a year. Of course, because she had not abused her sick time in the past, the company continued paying her even though her sick leave and vacation had been used up (not something I ever see AMR doing ).

The dr note does not negate our occurrence either, it just validates the absence to I don't get canned.

Was your friend in Texaco in a union? Do you think there may have been other employees at Texaco who were not treated as fairly?

 

[Garfield1966]

Garfield,


From the Flight Crew Side, I think you and most of AA management makes a serious mistake when comparing sick usage practices. Although we can agree that a decade long pattern of sudden illness on Xmas eve is a problem, there is a multitude of other illnesses that wouldn't keep anyone out of the typical workday in an AMR cubicle, but can cause greater problems in the air. As Jimntx mentioned, it's always amazed me the attitude at AA regarding sick employees. Back when we were hiring FA's, we had first year pay FA's so scared to call in sick, yet they would end up coughing and hacking near Widebody Captains at the top pay scale, no doubt passing on the illness and maybe getting more sick pay in 2 weeks than the FA was paid in 6 months.

Start requiring everybody in SOC to spend a couple of hours a day in an elevator or closet with another hacking employee, and you'll see things differently

I have never disputed the fact that being in a sealed environment poses different risks. I believe I have acknowledged that fact several times over the years. What I am saying is that what ever policy any company makes covering a certain issue will be abused at an exponentially higher rate the larger a pool of people that policy covers. Given that there are what 15k+ FA's on payroll, any relaxation of the policy will cause that many more people to abuse the system. Any harshening of the policy will cause more abuse than is already occurring. The people who abuse the system are the ones who are screwing it up for the rest of us. It is an unfortunate fact that most people only do what it right because doing something wrong typically involves a penalty. Take away the penalty, and the rule/law will be broken. Take away speeding tickets and see ho many people do not exceed the posted limit.

As for the sick issue. There are clearly patterns of abuse. They are isolated but they have a dramatic affect on the operation (see highlighted red portion above). My hunch is that if those individuals could be dealt with the affect on the rest of us would be lessened. Until that is dealt with, the situation that AAstew is in will continue to be familiar.

 

[operaations]

The sick policy at AA is absurd...I am currently looking at filing a discrimination lawsit against the company based on FMLA disqualification on the basis of sexual orientation. This very company gives my partner " Full " beneits including health, but when he is extremely ill ( possibly fatal ) the company denies FMLA to domestic partners. Those of you out there flying who have domestic partners, I hope nothing serious happens to them. You can very well be terminated for caring for them.


What Unity?

Did your FMLA denial clearly state it was due to your sexual orientation. If So I back you 100% in filing a law suit. If it did not stae that what did the denial letter state. I am curious to see what excuse the Company uses to accept or deny these FMLA requests

 

[jimntx]

The dr note does not negate our occurrence either, it just validates the absence to I don't get canned.

Was your friend in Texaco in a union? Do you think there may have been other employees at Texaco who were not treated as fairly?

No, my friend was not in a union. I can assure you that the courtesy extended to her by the company was NEVER extended to the accrue-a-day-take-a-day crowd. That's where a union is a distinct disadvantage. The union would insist that everyone be treated the same regardless of past behavior.

 

[Flyboy4u]

Did your FMLA denial clearly state it was due to your sexual orientation. If So I back you 100% in filing a law suit. If it did not stae that what did the denial letter state. I am curious to see what excuse the Company uses to accept or deny these FMLA requests

Yes..It clearly states it in black and white.....Also, with follow up phone calls to my FSM and to HR, who both confirmed...FMLA does not cover "Domestic Partners". This is a clearly Discrimination and needs to be dealt with.


What Unity?

 

[Veritas]

Yes..It clearly states it in black and white.....Also, with follow up phone calls to my FSM and to HR, who both confirmed...FMLA does not cover "Domestic Partners". This is a clearly Discrimination and needs to be dealt with.

If the law does not provide for FMLA leave to care for domestic partners, your discrimination suit will not succeed. As cold hearted as it seems, AA seems to be following the letter of the law.

Perhaps your union should negotiate for such benefits or lobby congress to amend the law to cover situations such as yours.