APFA plans pretend strikes on Nov. 18

[jersey777]

I have to agree with you. American would have to ramp up the learning center and start from scratch in creating a training program for thousands of replacement F/A's. This would be done with APFA's knowledge of what was going on and would cost the company millions of dollars to implement. I just don't see that happening now but if this drags on for years then stranger things have happened.

 

[L1011Ret]

why shouldn't they pay the same amount? they are and would be receiving the same benefits the union provides as the employed employees when they come back to work don't they?
Just because they go inactive does it mean the union STOPS their representation and they continue at the point they ended with at the time they go inactive upon return? No.

and once again it didn't take long for ex-twa to turn this resolution as something solely directed at them by the APFA,

yeah I know they'll come up with the same ole sob tune of "but all those on furlough are ex-twa!"...if you want to go down that road then wouldn't it be viable to say that THEY brought it onto themselves with the selling of their voting block to the one who can promise them something in return and other shenanigans started by them. take at look at the STL Base elections, they got an invisible ex-twa guy to be their base chair...who the heck voted for him? Block votes, just another way for them to say F You APFA! after all they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making a mockery of the APFA.

Why shouldn't they pay the same amount? Very good reasons. First APFA and AA ruled in the past that TWA F/As had to be "continuously employed" by AA to have seniority rights in STL. Secondly APFA stated that TWA F/As who had union positions in STL could only represent active STL F/As and not those furloughed out of STL. Lastly, I think you have to be employed by AA for APFA to represent you. It is now reasonably clear that APFA cannot represent furloughed F/As as they are not "employed" by AA. Therefore claims by APFA that furloughed F/As should bear a portion of union operating representational expenses are bogus. If APFA wants to claim furloughed F/As are still employed by AA and that APFA still represents them in furlough status, then the TWA F/As are entitled to their seniority in STL most probably displacing the nAAtive F/As flying out of STL.

 

[jimntx]

why shouldn't they pay the same amount? they are and would be receiving the same benefits the union provides as the employed employees when they come back to work don't they? Just because they go inactive does it mean the union STOPS their representation and they continue at the point they ended with at the time they go inactive upon return? No.

And, exactly what benefits would those be? The only benefits I'm aware of are provided by the company. As an AA f/a who was furloughed for 18 months, I can tell you that while on furlough I could hardly get the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed to answer the phone. As soon, as they found out that you were on furlough, you got "Can I put you on hold for a minute?". That minute would last until they decided that you were not going to hang up in frustration and they might as well answer your call. I was once on hold for almost 30 minutes. (I have a cordless phone with a very good battery.)

yeah I know they'll come up with the same ole sob tune of "but all those on furlough are ex-twa!"...if you want to go down that road then wouldn't it be viable to say that THEY brought it onto themselves with the selling of their voting block to the one who can promise them something in return and other shenanigans started by them.

So are you saying that bloc (not block) voting by a group of f/as--particularly if that vote is against the ruling party--gives the ruling party permission to punish the people who did not vote for them? Sounds familiar. Oh yeah, that's the way the Iron Curtain countries used to operate. And, the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa operate today. Why not just have some of the senior f/as who never fly armed with machetes and let them take care of the "ex-TWA" problem once and for all? Yeah, that's the ticket. A final solution.

take at look at the STL Base elections, they got an invisible ex-twa guy to be their base chair...who the heck voted for him? Block votes, just another way for them to say F You APFA! after all they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making a mockery of the APFA.

Blessed are the uninformed for they shall still comment on subjects for which they have no knowledge. I realize that your mind is made up and you probably don't wish to be confused with facts, but all bloc voting says--whether APFA voting, U.S. Presidential elections, or local dogcatcher--is that a group of voters have common interest. It happens all the times in democracies. Are you trying to say that the APFA is not a democracy? If so, you and I have found common ground, but not for the reason you think. The very idea that with 18,0000 members, a group of less than 25 will get to pick 2/3 of any future negotiating team is ludicrous and seriously anti-democratic. That says the average f/a does not have the sense to vote the way we think they ought to vote; so, we'll just take that right to vote away from them. And, since AA f/as bring a whole new meaning to lazy and apathetic, they will get away with this power grab.

The APFA needs no help from the former TWA f/as to be seen as a mockery of a union.

As far as the SLT elections...(You and the APFA really need to learn the correct terminology. The station is STL, the f/a base is SLT. The STL f/a base was the former TW base when there were two f/a bases at St. Louis. The AA base was, and still is, SLT. If you look in DECS for open time for STL, you will never see anything. It no longer has any trips assigned to it.)

You might try arming yourself with facts before commenting. The SLT base chair, Tim, is not nor has he ever been invisible. It was a VICE-Chair that made himself invisible from the day he was elected. It was Tim, the base chair, who pushed to get the shenanigans of the APFA Elections Board looked at by the Department of Labor. Lo and behold, the DOL found enough questionable activity by the Elections Board to demand a new election be held. In a closely watched revote, the results were not even close. There were 4 candidates and Nena won with about 90% of the vote. Nena could not have been re-elected without major support from those "evil" former TW f/as.

 

[coldplay]

am I missing something or isn't the 5 year recall period for furloughs a negotiated item and in our contract? isn't the recalling of all furloughs first before new hiring can begin a negotiated item?

all you naysayers seem to forget that being on furlough is a negotiated item...you could have been just laid off with no chance of recall IF Management had their way but no, the awful APFA negotiated for you to be on a recall list for a period of time instead of being tossed out on the street with no chance of coming back.


all you guys ever think about is what's happening now...oh poor me, I was laid off for a year, oh poor me i was furloughed for 18 months with nobody giving me concrete answers when i needed help. ####, were you all sitting around waiting for a recall all that time? i'll bet most of you got some kind of job to tide you over while waiting right? yeah sure, you can all cough up your much needed funds to help support a lawsuit but given an option to pay a measly $41/mo to maintain your status as active while on furlough or leave is suddenly a "hardship". give me a break. I'm willing to bet that most people spend $41 unknowingly every month on frivolous things they can do without.

and another thing, why should I listen to what someone who has made it known she is working with Management against the APFA? Anything coming out from her mouth is suspect. Her group has said they would cross a picketline, they would help management derail any action by the APFA to obtain a new contract unless their personal needs are met.
So, don't you think that anything said by her or her group regarding "ineffectiveness" of the Union's call for action, whether it be a pseudo-strike or CHAOS, would just be another way of them to cause division amongst the rank and file? I for one see anything coming out of her mouth as the VOICE OF ARPEY...so please excuse me while I tune her out.

the APFA may be dysfunctional and you may look at it as inept but if you step back and look at the big picture, it isn't the Union itself that's inept but rather a bunch of individuals who make it that way. Individuals that are voted in constantly because they are afraid to come back to the line and do real work (I mean why should they? they can earn more by sitting on their butts on trip removals). So who votes them in everytime? If you think that BLOC votes don't play a big part in this then you're just plain nuts. If you are disgusted with the Glading administration, ask yourselves who put her and the gang of fools in there? It sure wasn't me but I'm sure a so-called "small" group of non-paying dues memebers who were able to vote mainly because of them being "furloughed" had something to do with it.

 

[nbmcg01]

am I missing something or isn't the 5 year recall period for furloughs a negotiated item and in our contract? isn't the recalling of all furloughs first before new hiring can begin a negotiated item?

all you naysayers seem to forget that being on furlough is a negotiated item...you could have been just laid off with no chance of recall IF Management had their way but no, the awful APFA negotiated for you to be on a recall list for a period of time instead of being tossed out on the street with no chance of coming back.


all you guys ever think about is what's happening now...oh poor me, I was laid off for a year, oh poor me i was furloughed for 18 months with nobody giving me concrete answers when i needed help. ####, were you all sitting around waiting for a recall all that time? i'll bet most of you got some kind of job to tide you over while waiting right? yeah sure, you can all cough up your much needed funds to help support a lawsuit but given an option to pay a measly $41/mo to maintain your status as active while on furlough or leave is suddenly a "hardship". give me a break. I'm willing to bet that most people spend $41 unknowingly every month on frivolous things they can do without.


There are 18000 f/as at AA. Your statement has no basis for sound reason. Speak to the ones that don't know the name of the union much less who the officers and reps are. Speak to the ones that have no clue that there are actually 1400+ on furlough and this union has managed to lose 6000+ plus members. 5 years, for the amt. of the RPA concessions there should have been an immediate unlimited recall and as for the 2 year extension, that was BOUGHT with millions in former TWA grievances. And how about those that never fly (by choice)? Where is recall by-pass that most if not all other airlines have in their agreements? Facts please.






and another thing, why should I listen to what someone who has made it known she is working with Management against the APFA? Anything coming out from her mouth is suspect. Her group has said they would cross a picketline, they would help management derail any action by the APFA to obtain a new contract unless their personal needs are met.
So, don't you think that anything said by her or her group regarding "ineffectiveness" of the Union's call for action, whether it be a pseudo-strike or CHAOS, would just be another way of them to cause division amongst the rank and file? I for one see anything coming out of her mouth as the VOICE OF ARPEY...so please excuse me while I tune her out.

the APFA may be dysfunctional and you may look at it as inept but if you step back and look at the big picture, it isn't the Union itself that's inept but rather a bunch of individuals who make it that way. Individuals that are voted in constantly because they are afraid to come back to the line and do real work (I mean why should they? they can earn more by sitting on their butts on trip removals). So who votes them in everytime? If you think that BLOC votes don't play a big part in this then you're just plain nuts. If you are disgusted with the Glading administration, ask yourselves who put her and the gang of fools in there? It sure wasn't me but I'm sure a so-called "small" group of non-paying dues memebers who were able to vote mainly because of them being "furloughed" had something to do with it.

 

[jimntx]

the APFA may be dysfunctional and you may look at it as inept but if you step back and look at the big picture, it isn't the Union itself that's inept but rather a bunch of individuals who make it that way. Individuals that are voted in constantly because they are afraid to come back to the line and do real work (I mean why should they? they can earn more by sitting on their butts on trip removals). So who votes them in everytime? If you think that BLOC votes don't play a big part in this then you're just plain nuts. If you are disgusted with the Glading administration, ask yourselves who put her and the gang of fools in there? It sure wasn't me but I'm sure a so-called "small" group of non-paying dues memebers who were able to vote mainly because of them being "furloughed" had something to do with it.

Now you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. First, you run down the former TW f/as for bloc voting and say that "they brought their situation upon themselves" by voting against the wishes of the union, then you admit that the APFA is dysfunctional and inept because the same officers and reps (all of them) are repeatedly elected to office by bloc votes. Which is it? Or, is bloc voting only bad when done by former TW f/as?

You and I agree 100% on the view of the union and why it is that way. Why do you think I call them the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed? I think the main reason the APFA officers and staff are so violently opposed to Minimum Threshhold Flying is not because it will reduce the "flexibility" of the senior flight attendants who never fly. It's because the APFA officers and staff might have to start flying (as working crew) again. On airplanes that have passengers on them! Horrors!

 

[galleyguy4u2]

When we had IFFA at TWA all officers had to fly a certain amount of trips a year. How do you stay in touch with the job as a f/a if you just stay behind a desk? When you are out on the line and actually getting REAL feedback you quickly learn what problems the line f/a's have.

Nancy and I are the co-founders of WE-CARE which is a 501C-3 organization which is a tax exempt organization. The reason we did this is that we found out that the Wings Foundation will not help any furloughed member. We have raised thousands of dollars to help our former TWA f/a's. Cold Play, trust me I know many furloughed f/a's that cannot afford $42.00 a month. When your house is in foreclosure or you are paying out the nose for health insurance or taking care of a sick family member. Walk in their shoes. I have been the treasurer for six years and have been able to get corporate donations to help us. Keep in mind also, that many of the furloughed members <TWA> can barely keep their water bill paid or pay their electric bill.

One of our recalled f/a's was approached on a working flight asking if WE-CARE would come into the fold of the Wings Foundation meaning giving them our money. HELL NO!!! As I mentioned above they will NOT assist furloughed members. So again we are treated like s**t.

For six years I have been furloughed with 23 years of service and I have never needed anything from this faux Union or should I say Association. Now they want me to pay Union dues??? This is disguised as Poll Tax to keep us from voting in elections. The DOL and the NMB are going to hear about this trust me on this one.

Will those awful TWA f/a's go away? Not as long as we are above the ground. We are more unified than your 18,000 all put together.

Here is a link to WE-CARE:

http://twaflightattendants.com/wecare.html

 

[FA Mikey]

And, exactly what benefits would those be? The only benefits I'm aware of are provided by the company. As an AA f/a who was furloughed for 18 months, I can tell you that while on furlough I could hardly get the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed to answer the phone. As soon, as they found out that you were on furlough, you got "Can I put you on hold for a minute?". That minute would last until they decided that you were not going to hang up in frustration and they might as well answer your call. I was once on hold for almost 30 minutes. (I have a cordless phone with a very good battery.)

As soon as they found out you were on furlough, you mean they asked for your employee number to record on the log sheet. If you push "0" you get the operator who Xfers the call and you sit in limbo until the line opens up. Its the same every where.

As someone who worked on those phones for several years I can tell you how busy it can get. First thing in the morning, logging all the calls from the night before, returning them and at the same time more and more coming in. If I could knock 15 calls off the voice mail and return them, there would be 25 more when I checked it again. It would be wonderful to have a phone bank of operators like AA res, but we can only afford a few people to handle the 16, 18 20,000 what ever it is now people calling for information and help.

 

[FA Mikey]

When we had IFFA at TWA all officers had to fly a certain amount of trips a year. How do you stay in touch with the job as a f/a if you just stay behind a desk? When you are out on the line and actually getting REAL feedback you quickly learn what problems the line f/a's have.

Like supervisors, they have to fly during the year and attend EPT's. Its also a little more difficult when you are running an organization of 18,000 VS 4,000.

I am curious you took the time to post an anonymous letter by someone, so I have to guess you feel close to the same way. In that you belive they need to live in Dallas.and fly trips. Would that be in excess of the 5 day 40 hour work week? As it is they take the union meetings on the road. By doing that they are able to reach more members then just those who live in Dallas. They also commute and interact with working crew and other deadheaders. If they just lived in Dallas and flew that obligatory trip and never left to other bases for union meeting. They would interact with far fewer fellow members than they do today.

 

[jersey777]

For six years I have been furloughed with 23 years of service and I have never needed anything from this faux Union or should I say Association. Now they want me to pay Union dues??? This is disguised as Poll Tax to keep us from voting in elections. The DOL and the NMB are going to hear about this trust me on this one.

Will those awful TWA f/a's go away? Not as long as we are above the ground. We are more unified than your 18,000 all put together.




You mean you have been playing "victim" for 6 years?

 

[damajagua]

How can someone that has been out for six years have the right to vote ?
I tought that after 5 years you came off the recall list. If you are off the
recall list am assuming you are no longer an APFA member. Correct me if am
wrong.

 

[nbmcg01]

How can someone that has been out for six years have the right to vote ?
I tought that after 5 years you came off the recall list. If you are off the
recall list am assuming you are no longer an APFA member. Correct me if am
wrong.

There was an extension that was BOUGHT for millions of grievance dollars (without any vote or right to give them away). I will be willing to bet that unlimited recall will be coming.

Miles is wrong in the fact that IFFA reps had to fly. We did not. My last flt. was 1-2003 (OVL then furlough) and I can assure you I have not lost focus of the needs of the working and furloughed f/a. the difference is that we had offices on the property, in Flt. Svs., staffed 7 days a week.

Many furloughed were in their 50s, went into new careers and then went back when recalled to try and salvage some sort of retirement. Of course that is moot now. It get tougher as you get older and most employers know you will leave when recalled. When I interviewed at my current employer I was asked, If recalled will you go back to AA?" My answer, "Given me a reason not to". When acquired most of us had planned to fly 10 years and go quietly into that good reitrement.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

There was an extension that was BOUGHT for millions of grievance dollars (without any vote or right to give them away). I will be willing to bet that unlimited recall will be coming.

Miles is wrong in the fact that IFFA reps had to fly. We did not. My last flt. was 1-2003 (OVL then furlough) and I can assure you I have not lost focus of the needs of the working and furloughed f/a. the difference is that we had offices on the property, in Flt. Svs., staffed 7 days a week.

Many furloughed were in their 50s, went into new careers and then went back when recalled to try and salvage some sort of retirement. Of course that is moot now. It get tougher as you get older and most employers know you will leave when recalled. When I interviewed at my current employer I was asked, If recalled will you go back to AA?" My answer, "Given me a reason not to". When acquired most of us had planned to fly 10 years and go quietly into that good reitrement.

Nancy, I may be wrong. Perhaps it was the IAM. I did fly with Scary Cooper while she was in office.

 

[nbmcg01]

Nancy, I may be wrong. Perhaps it was the IAM. I did fly with Scary Cooper while she was in office.

If the APFA had been able to protect the jobs of the former TWA f/as, their coffers would have held an additional $16,500,000. If they had managed to save the other 1800 jobs it would have added an additional $7,084,800. Saving jobs is job one of a union. Too often it is only about the dues.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Oh so true Nancy, but they just do no get it and never will.