Former APFA Negotiator On Laura Glading

[kirkpatrick]

This is not "galley gossip." I have not been in a galley since 2003 and resent your condescending tone. I would gladly trade places with you if you find working with flight attendants so distasteful.

You don't know Jim. He's joking. He's been very supportive of TWA people all along.

MK

 

[L1011Ret]

Well, it is the closest thing to galley gossip. Perhaps we should call it "virtual" galley gossip as it is spewed on a members only TWA flight attendants' website from which Dixie was expelled by the Cooper-Bertolini crowd and where she is unable to defend herself.

Dixie was hardly expelled by the Cooper-Bertolini crowd. Where do you get such information?

 

[Veritas]

Dixie was hardly expelled by the Cooper-Bertolini crowd.

Are you saying that she was not banned from that site or that someone else expelled her?

 

[L1011Ret]

Are you saying that she was not banned from that site or that someone else expelled her?

Someone else expelled her.

 

[jimntx]

This is not "galley gossip." I have not been in a galley since 2003 and resent your condescending tone. I would gladly trade places with you if you find working with flight attendants so distasteful.

First off, note the following quote " First you suggest that people run for office rather that complain about those who do, now this!

Are you sure you were ever a flight attendant? This dealing in facts business has me wondering?"
followed immediately after Nancy's post to you suggesting that you deal in facts."

Exactly when did you ever suggest that other people run for office rather than complain. You didn't. Nancy did. The light-hearted comment--also note the laughing smiley face at the end of post--was directed at my good friend, Nancy. She knew it. Everyone else knew it. Why didn't you?

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Myth 1: Dixie has never endorsed J.W. Show me any post to that fact. Dixie and Tim are about inclusion AA/TWA. So what is WRONG with that?

You nAAives are finally seeing some moement in the system, thank's to the TWA f/a's whome most of you would never see us back. We are not the evil demons that some of you mae us out to be. We will bring to the table some great ideas that will benefit all of us.

 

[Maurice Chevalier]

Someone else expelled her.

We both know those who were responsible and where their union political allegiances laid.

 

[jersey777]

Our APFA National Officer elections are quickly approaching.
I cannot even begin to describe how greatly distressed and disappointed I am to learn that
one of my former negotiating team colleagues (from our 2001 contract and the concessionary debacle of 2003)
has decided to run for President of the APFA. Having served with Laura Glading for almost three years on the
negotiating team, I cannot think of anyone less appropriate to represent us during these turbulent times. From my
own perspective and experience, I feel that Laura Glading is naïve and concessionary. She has an arrogance that
is dangerous because she is unable too admit when she is wrong or has been fooled. (which was quite often in my opinion)
During the 2001 contract negotiations, if the Company could not get our team to cave on an issue, Laura Glading
was their "go to" person to circumvent the process and cause internal pressure. Laura Glading boasted openly on
how she thought Jane Allen was an advocate for the Flight Attendants. (What a joke that turned out to be)

Laura Glading had a front row seat during the concessions and is quietly trying to delete this from her resume.
At the same time Laura is using people like Steve Ellis, an elected member of the current negotiations team,
to claim she was responsible and deserves the credit for our 2001 contract. Steve Ellis was not an active participant
in the 2001 contract negotiations. I was, and can tell you Laura Glading was not fighting for this membership.
She stated many times openly that Denise Hedge's contract was not that bad. She became a roadblock many
times during our negotiations because the Company felt Laura Glading would be able to pressure the rest of our team
and base chair persons to settle much lower.
Fortunately Laura was unsuccessful.

I am greatly disturbed to see the Hutto-Blake administration attempt to reinvent Laura Glading into a fighter and
someone able to advance our careers. Laura has been working under Tommie, and her administration for much of
the last four years. For anyone that questions the validity of this, the facts and figures are in the APFA monthly
financial reports.

I see now Laura Glading is trying to distance herself from Tommie and claim she is a new deal. Please do not be
fooled! The very people that Laura is running with seem to be handpicked by Tommie herself. Brett Durkin is the
current VP of the APFA -Handpicked by Tommie.
Denise Pointer- Handpicked by Tommie to be the Info Rep Leader.
Look up the list of Tommie supporters, you will find all the same names supporting Laura. Again, please do not be fooled!

In my humble opinion Laura would be even worse than Tommie.
Like Tommie she carried the mantra of -Pull together win together- like it was gospel.
Now, like Tommie, she wants to pretend they were victims and betrayed by management as if that will regain our trust.

Seeing Steve Ellis endorse Glading gives me De-ja-vu. He seems to be embarking on a path that is perilously similar
to the one Patt Gibbs traveled at the end of her Flight Attendant career. If Steven is to be taken seriously he should
immediately make very clear his support is not in order to secure his first practice and learn the job at our expense.
I would encourage Steve to state he has no intention of accepting trip removal or employment as APFA counsel or
legal advocate if Laura is elected. While I applaud anyone who furthers their education, I see a great problem with
the APFA continuing to have individuals with little or no experience representing us. I hope Steve is successful in getting
hired by a respectful firm and gaining much needed experience. An attorney needs years of experience to stand up and take
on AA managements' attorneys that each have decades of experience. To believe anything else is ridiculous or foolish.

I fervently hope that this membership rejects this lame attempt to keep the status quo by electing Laura and her
running mates. They are thinking that by changing out Tommie for Laura we will be fooled. Our careers cannot afford
another four years from a group that played a driving role behind circumventing, changing, and then removing our rights
to vote on concessions and the numerous "Tests" that have been thrown at us these last years. We cannot afford
the "Status Quo is the best we can do" for another four years.
I do not know about you, but I cannot afford another four years of this. American management would love it!
And that should speak for itself. We have got to elect someone that will stay at the bargaining table until the last
dollar is off of it and in our pockets rather than in management bonus packages.
This company has no respect for working together unless it's for free on our part.
We have got to elect a "tree shaker" if we have any hope of getting back the fruit that was stripped from our plates.
Unless we can show this management that we are capable of shaking the tree, they have no intention of giving us
back the fruit of our labor.

After reading the above quote, I was cocerned about the idea of Laura Glading being soft in negotiations. Because there are always two sides to any story I dug this up. It clears up a few things for me.




Art,
As far as Laura being the Company’s “go to†person in negotiations, you are absolutely correct. However, you fail to correctly cite why and in what context. Laura WAS the chair of the negotiating committee from September of 1999 until the national officer elections were concluded in April of 2000. Denise Hedges did not participate in negotiations after the first team resigned. Although John was elected President in April of 2000, and became the chair in title, Laura remained in the drivers seat. The company recognized her as the de facto chair initially and they never stopped throughout the negotiations process. John was not in many, if any, meetings without her right by his side. She remained the absolute driver. Thus, while you cite that this was due to her conciliatory nature, her initial role as the chair and stature on the team would better explain why the Company deemed Laura the “go to†person.

Speaking of conciliatory nature and negotiations, I believe I need to refresh your memory a bit and ask you a simple question.

If you were so concerned about Laura being a “conciliatory†person who worked WITH the Company, then why did you leave her to close up the deal? If you were so concerned about her “cavingâ€, then where were you to ensure that didn’t happen? A couple of us worked all night (Laura, an APFA attorney, and I) because there were several open issues, the toughest being the final wages that were contingent on a profit sharing letter being negotiated and agreed to, 777 bunks letter being negotiated and agreed to, and crew rest issues being negotiated and agreed to. Despite problems arising regarding these issues during the night, they were worked through and resolved and the closed agreement was completed and ready for signature.

As you and anyone with negotiations experience knows, a deal is not a deal until all the items have been agreed to and closed. Everything is contingent upon everything else to close out the deal in the end. This is always one of the most difficult parts of negotiation of any final agreement because you must tie up all the ends. There are often problems that arise with one agreement that could cause other agreements to fall (like dominoes) before they are inked. (ie misunderstanding intent of a position or statement of someone, etc.)

Your own conduct seriously undermines the accuracy of what you purport to have happened. Or else you were in absentia during the most critical time period for some other unknown reason. Why?

The internal pressure you speak of came from some of you getting so wrapped up in the contest with the Company that you lost focus and forgot about all the other players in the process (the National Mediation Board, mediators, White house, and Congress), who wield an incredible amount of control over negotiations under the Railway Labor Act. What you failed to recognize was that they control when the bargaining process is over, not APFA nor the Company. Laura brought you in off the ledge. It wasn’t about reading only the company; it was about reading the other players who had the ability to control our destiny. Industry leading is the top of the mountain, but you didn’t recognize when you made it. You wanted to keep climbing when you would have fallen off the cliff. Fortunately for us, our membership recognized an industry-leading contract right away and later you did too.

As far as having a front row seat in concessions, you would be right there also. In fact, you were one of the proponents who attempted to sell the 777 staffing award to the Company without even reading the award. Fortunately, the Company changed their mind thinking they could circumvent it without paying for it. (A big mistake on their part). Ironically, the methodology that you opted to give away generated the resources for APFA to remedy the most egregious instances of short layover rest from the RPA for our members (is that status quo?). The award has even more future potential, but you didn’t recognize that either.

Despite our entire industry being set back, there is a material difference between the two of you in terms of the concessions process since the RPA. Laura has fought back by continuing to work for APFA to try to remedy the damage done, and protect what we have from continued Company overreaching. Unfortunately, you have not done likewise, but instead cast blame on others for current conditions that you also had a part in shaping.

Jeff Bott
JFK


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[nbmcg01]

After reading the above quote, I was cocerned about the idea of Laura Glading being soft in negotiations. Because there are always two sides to any story I dug this up. It clears up a few things for me.




Art,
As far as Laura being the Company’s “go to†person in negotiations, you are absolutely correct. However, you fail to correctly cite why and in what context. Laura WAS the chair of the negotiating committee from September of 1999 until the national officer elections were concluded in April of 2000. Denise Hedges did not participate in negotiations after the first team resigned. Although John was elected President in April of 2000, and became the chair in title, Laura remained in the drivers seat. The company recognized her as the de facto chair initially and they never stopped throughout the negotiations process. John was not in many, if any, meetings without her right by his side. She remained the absolute driver. Thus, while you cite that this was due to her conciliatory nature, her initial role as the chair and stature on the team would better explain why the Company deemed Laura the “go to†person.

Speaking of conciliatory nature and negotiations, I believe I need to refresh your memory a bit and ask you a simple question.

If you were so concerned about Laura being a “conciliatory†person who worked WITH the Company, then why did you leave her to close up the deal? If you were so concerned about her “cavingâ€, then where were you to ensure that didn’t happen? A couple of us worked all night (Laura, an APFA attorney, and I) because there were several open issues, the toughest being the final wages that were contingent on a profit sharing letter being negotiated and agreed to, 777 bunks letter being negotiated and agreed to, and crew rest issues being negotiated and agreed to. Despite problems arising regarding these issues during the night, they were worked through and resolved and the closed agreement was completed and ready for signature.

As you and anyone with negotiations experience knows, a deal is not a deal until all the items have been agreed to and closed. Everything is contingent upon everything else to close out the deal in the end. This is always one of the most difficult parts of negotiation of any final agreement because you must tie up all the ends. There are often problems that arise with one agreement that could cause other agreements to fall (like dominoes) before they are inked. (ie misunderstanding intent of a position or statement of someone, etc.)

Your own conduct seriously undermines the accuracy of what you purport to have happened. Or else you were in absentia during the most critical time period for some other unknown reason. Why?

The internal pressure you speak of came from some of you getting so wrapped up in the contest with the Company that you lost focus and forgot about all the other players in the process (the National Mediation Board, mediators, White house, and Congress), who wield an incredible amount of control over negotiations under the Railway Labor Act. What you failed to recognize was that they control when the bargaining process is over, not APFA nor the Company. Laura brought you in off the ledge. It wasn’t about reading only the company; it was about reading the other players who had the ability to control our destiny. Industry leading is the top of the mountain, but you didn’t recognize when you made it. You wanted to keep climbing when you would have fallen off the cliff. Fortunately for us, our membership recognized an industry-leading contract right away and later you did too.

As far as having a front row seat in concessions, you would be right there also. In fact, you were one of the proponents who attempted to sell the 777 staffing award to the Company without even reading the award. Fortunately, the Company changed their mind thinking they could circumvent it without paying for it. (A big mistake on their part). Ironically, the methodology that you opted to give away generated the resources for APFA to remedy the most egregious instances of short layover rest from the RPA for our members (is that status quo?). The award has even more future potential, but you didn’t recognize that either.

Despite our entire industry being set back, there is a material difference between the two of you in terms of the concessions process since the RPA. Laura has fought back by continuing to work for APFA to try to remedy the damage done, and protect what we have from continued Company overreaching. Unfortunately, you have not done likewise, but instead cast blame on others for current conditions that you also had a part in shaping.

Jeff Bott
JFK


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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or move

I'm just curious, with all of the talk about who did (or did not) do what when and where, how would you feel about a group of WELL qualified, recently recalled f/as running for office? Or breaking up "slates" to provide checks and balances?

 

[jersey777]

Our APFA National Officer elections are quickly approaching.
I cannot even begin to describe how greatly distressed and disappointed I am to learn that
one of my former negotiating team colleagues (from our 2001 contract and the concessionary debacle of 2003)
has decided to run for President of the APFA. Having served with Laura Glading for almost three years on the
negotiating team, I cannot think of anyone less appropriate to represent us during these turbulent times. From my
own perspective and experience, I feel that Laura Glading is naïve and concessionary. She has an arrogance that
is dangerous because she is unable too admit when she is wrong or has been fooled. (which was quite often in my opinion)
During the 2001 contract negotiations, if the Company could not get our team to cave on an issue, Laura Glading
was their "go to" person to circumvent the process and cause internal pressure. Laura Glading boasted openly on
how she thought Jane Allen was an advocate for the Flight Attendants. (What a joke that turned out to be)

Laura Glading had a front row seat during the concessions and is quietly trying to delete this from her resume.
At the same time Laura is using people like Steve Ellis, an elected member of the current negotiations team,
to claim she was responsible and deserves the credit for our 2001 contract. Steve Ellis was not an active participant
in the 2001 contract negotiations. I was, and can tell you Laura Glading was not fighting for this membership.
She stated many times openly that Denise Hedge's contract was not that bad. She became a roadblock many
times during our negotiations because the Company felt Laura Glading would be able to pressure the rest of our team
and base chair persons to settle much lower.
Fortunately Laura was unsuccessful.

I am greatly disturbed to see the Hutto-Blake administration attempt to reinvent Laura Glading into a fighter and
someone able to advance our careers. Laura has been working under Tommie, and her administration for much of
the last four years. For anyone that questions the validity of this, the facts and figures are in the APFA monthly
financial reports.

I see now Laura Glading is trying to distance herself from Tommie and claim she is a new deal. Please do not be
fooled! The very people that Laura is running with seem to be handpicked by Tommie herself. Brett Durkin is the
current VP of the APFA -Handpicked by Tommie.
Denise Pointer- Handpicked by Tommie to be the Info Rep Leader.
Look up the list of Tommie supporters, you will find all the same names supporting Laura. Again, please do not be fooled!

In my humble opinion Laura would be even worse than Tommie.
Like Tommie she carried the mantra of -Pull together win together- like it was gospel.
Now, like Tommie, she wants to pretend they were victims and betrayed by management as if that will regain our trust.

Seeing Steve Ellis endorse Glading gives me De-ja-vu. He seems to be embarking on a path that is perilously similar
to the one Patt Gibbs traveled at the end of her Flight Attendant career. If Steven is to be taken seriously he should
immediately make very clear his support is not in order to secure his first practice and learn the job at our expense.
I would encourage Steve to state he has no intention of accepting trip removal or employment as APFA counsel or
legal advocate if Laura is elected. While I applaud anyone who furthers their education, I see a great problem with
the APFA continuing to have individuals with little or no experience representing us. I hope Steve is successful in getting
hired by a respectful firm and gaining much needed experience. An attorney needs years of experience to stand up and take
on AA managements' attorneys that each have decades of experience. To believe anything else is ridiculous or foolish.

I fervently hope that this membership rejects this lame attempt to keep the status quo by electing Laura and her
running mates. They are thinking that by changing out Tommie for Laura we will be fooled. Our careers cannot afford
another four years from a group that played a driving role behind circumventing, changing, and then removing our rights
to vote on concessions and the numerous "Tests" that have been thrown at us these last years. We cannot afford
the "Status Quo is the best we can do" for another four years.
I do not know about you, but I cannot afford another four years of this. American management would love it!
And that should speak for itself. We have got to elect someone that will stay at the bargaining table until the last
dollar is off of it and in our pockets rather than in management bonus packages.
This company has no respect for working together unless it's for free on our part.
We have got to elect a "tree shaker" if we have any hope of getting back the fruit that was stripped from our plates.
Unless we can show this management that we are capable of shaking the tree, they have no intention of giving us
back the fruit of our labor.

After reading the above quote, I was cocerned about the idea of Laura Glading being soft in negotiations. Because there are always two sides to any story I dug this up. It clears up a few things for me.




Art,
As far as Laura being the Company’s “go to†person in negotiations, you are absolutely correct. However, you fail to correctly cite why and in what context. Laura WAS the chair of the negotiating committee from September of 1999 until the national officer elections were concluded in April of 2000. Denise Hedges did not participate in negotiations after the first team resigned. Although John was elected President in April of 2000, and became the chair in title, Laura remained in the drivers seat. The company recognized her as the de facto chair initially and they never stopped throughout the negotiations process. John was not in many, if any, meetings without her right by his side. She remained the absolute driver. Thus, while you cite that this was due to her conciliatory nature, her initial role as the chair and stature on the team would better explain why the Company deemed Laura the “go to†person.

Speaking of conciliatory nature and negotiations, I believe I need to refresh your memory a bit and ask you a simple question.

If you were so concerned about Laura being a “conciliatory†person who worked WITH the Company, then why did you leave her to close up the deal? If you were so concerned about her “cavingâ€, then where were you to ensure that didn’t happen? A couple of us worked all night (Laura, an APFA attorney, and I) because there were several open issues, the toughest being the final wages that were contingent on a profit sharing letter being negotiated and agreed to, 777 bunks letter being negotiated and agreed to, and crew rest issues being negotiated and agreed to. Despite problems arising regarding these issues during the night, they were worked through and resolved and the closed agreement was completed and ready for signature.

As you and anyone with negotiations experience knows, a deal is not a deal until all the items have been agreed to and closed. Everything is contingent upon everything else to close out the deal in the end. This is always one of the most difficult parts of negotiation of any final agreement because you must tie up all the ends. There are often problems that arise with one agreement that could cause other agreements to fall (like dominoes) before they are inked. (ie misunderstanding intent of a position or statement of someone, etc.)

Your own conduct seriously undermines the accuracy of what you purport to have happened. Or else you were in absentia during the most critical time period for some other unknown reason. Why?

The internal pressure you speak of came from some of you getting so wrapped up in the contest with the Company that you lost focus and forgot about all the other players in the process (the National Mediation Board, mediators, White house, and Congress), who wield an incredible amount of control over negotiations under the Railway Labor Act. What you failed to recognize was that they control when the bargaining process is over, not APFA nor the Company. Laura brought you in off the ledge. It wasn’t about reading only the company; it was about reading the other players who had the ability to control our destiny. Industry leading is the top of the mountain, but you didn’t recognize when you made it. You wanted to keep climbing when you would have fallen off the cliff. Fortunately for us, our membership recognized an industry-leading contract right away and later you did too.

As far as having a front row seat in concessions, you would be right there also. In fact, you were one of the proponents who attempted to sell the 777 staffing award to the Company without even reading the award. Fortunately, the Company changed their mind thinking they could circumvent it without paying for it. (A big mistake on their part). Ironically, the methodology that you opted to give away generated the resources for APFA to remedy the most egregious instances of short layover rest from the RPA for our members (is that status quo?). The award has even more future potential, but you didn’t recognize that either.

Despite our entire industry being set back, there is a material difference between the two of you in terms of the concessions process since the RPA. Laura has fought back by continuing to work for APFA to try to remedy the damage done, and protect what we have from continued Company overreaching. Unfortunately, you have not done likewise, but instead cast blame on others for current conditions that you also had a part in shaping.

Jeff Bott
JFK


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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or move

 

[AC AA LA FA]

If memory serves, there was a "Special Advisory Committee" set up during the time Denise removed herself from negotiation and Ward administration took office.

Jeff Bott sat on that committee and then later continued his involvement as VP until we had a agreement.

 

[s80dude]

I'm just curious, with all of the talk about who did (or did not) do what when and where, how would you feel about a group of WELL qualified, recently recalled f/as running for office? Or breaking up "slates" to provide checks and balances?

I think it would be fine. A mix of Recalled and Natives would be the best option. I don't think a 100% TWA slate would be successful in their run, and it would be better to have the slate come from all over the system anyway.

 

[nbmcg01]

I think it would be fine. A mix of Recalled and Natives would be the best option. I don't think a 100% TWA slate would be successful in their run, and it would be better to have the slate come from all over the system anyway.

Ah ha, we're making progress..lol Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[s80dude]

Ah ha, we're making progress..lol Happy Thanksgiving!

You all have been making progress for a while. Natives recognized Dixie's talents and voted for her to be one of our Negotiators. I've spoke with several of the recalled folks and they said they have been warmly welcomed back on the line.

Now off to stuff myself silly with Fowl.

 

[nbmcg01]

Ah ha, we're making progress..lol Happy Thanksgiving!

From the superb training staff , base management, and the line flight attendants, I have heard nothing but great comments. I expected nothing less. I think it is only senior management that is surprised. Have a good turkey coma.