APFA plans pretend strikes on Nov. 18

[Hopeful]

I realize that many equate the absence of a company proposal for a pay raise with "bad faith" bargaining, but I don't think that's the legal standard. Does "good faith" require that the company propose a pay raise? The company could have come to the table demanding a 20% paycut (shades of 2003) but instead has chosen to demand a contract that provides no new money. It's not generous. It's not advantageous. But bad faith?

The bad faith is continually coming to negotiations with nothing new. Las TWU negotiations, the mediator expressed his displeasure with AA dragging its feet. The company is stalling and playing games and the only thing they might understand is their product being negativley impacted.

 

[nbmcg01]

What is the purpose of the "red flights" on 11/18? Certain flights they are going to flip their disks from yellow to red onboard?

It would indicate that in a "real" self help mode, your flight would be targeted for the crew to walk off.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

And wasnt 1993 a recession as well?

No, 1993 was not a recession year. Here is alink for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reces...e_United_States

 

[Bob Owens]

Well going by that criteria this recession is over as well. Pop the champagne! Happy Days are here again!

 

[FA Mikey]

Oh well, so it wasnt a recession as listed by Wikipedia. The APFA opened negotiations long before 1993 and AA's bargaining position was based on the years prior. You do not have to be in the midsts of a recession to be practically negotiating in one.

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh well, so it wasnt a recession as listed by Wikipedia. The APFA opened negotiations long before 1993 and AA's bargaining position was based on the years prior. You do not have to be in the midsts of a recession to be practically negotiating in one.

I agree, in the years I've been in this industry its been in "a recession"(or some other crises) for around 25 of my 29 years.

 

[kirkpatrick]

I seem to recall 5 or 8 days as the bare minimum for a single fleet type to do evacs... the TW transition training was for multiple fleet types, plus meal services.

Sure, AA could push through a few small groups qualified on only one aircraft, but it would still take a couple of weeks to get anyone actually working a flight. It ain't gonna happen.

MK

 

[Mach85ER]

Sure, AA could push through a few small groups qualified on only one aircraft, but it would still take a couple of weeks to get anyone actually working a flight. It ain't gonna happen.

MK

Dunno how far they would take it. IMHO, I don't see the stigma attached to being a SCAB after witnessing the lack of ostracism (sp?) after the 90's strike. I seen more catfights over general conflicts and personalities than those flights with SCABS, even just a couple of years after the strike. If you had 1000-1500 last time, you could see 4000-5000 this time. Remember too, that last time, there were alot more 20 somethings that were risking a lower paid job as well as fewer family responsibilities. 16 years later, I fly with alot of single mothers in their 40's with kids in high school and college. I haven't seen baby pictures in a long time except for Grandkid pics.

After you pick a number of SCABS, 2000-4000, split them up and fly them with the 7 day wonders, 130 hours a month (or whatever). Although most narrow bodies are already min crews, the 777/767 can be cut to 7 and 6 (or whatever it is). Add cancelling vacations leaves and flying Supervisors, the number required to run the system drops significantly. Another factor is AA's code share buddies, BA and IB as well as LAN will cut the required number of FA's even more. (big factor why APA is concerned, but that's another 7 page thread).

The replacement pool is unknown. How many LCC/Regional/EX-TWA/EX-Legacy FA's are jobless or in dirt pay jobs? Unknown me what they'd do, but many would probably take the chance after having the taste of travel and lately have been sitting in front of a cash register, or watching daytime TV. This group would adapt to training fairly quickly.

Another factor is the difference between the early 90's and now. AA was in the top 5 back then in customer service, and locked in a fight with UAL for the business passenger. Having the SCAB and flunky crews screwing up for 6 months would have killed that high ranking. Although the FA's are only part of the ranking problems today, I would be caution the AMR might not worry about dropping from our current ranking of 16 out of 18 down to 17 out of 18. The bulk of our FA's back then were also on lower payscales, the cost of replacements could not have been that huge back then. I'm not so sure that's the case today.

Just some observations and opinions.

 

[Veritas]

Oh well, so it wasnt a recession as listed by Wikipedia. The APFA opened negotiations long before 1993 and AA's bargaining position was based on the years prior. You do not have to be in the midsts of a recession to be practically negotiating in one.

Recession or not, today's unemployment rate of 10.2% is one and a half times as high as it was in 1993.

United States unemployment rate for selected years from 1920 to 2008

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Exactly my point Veritas. AA will not budge and they do not have to. AA knows very well that there is dis-unity in the rank and file of APFA.

 

[FA Mikey]

There has always been and always will be dis-unity. If they want to replace the flight attendants they would already have to be going full steam. They are not and they have made no plans or mention of it.

I dont know of anyone who didnt go to work only on the fear of being ostracized. It all came down to the en and what the final positions were and could you live with it. Another reason we had such a great turn out was, everyone knew it started this day and ended this day. No time to be replaced and no one trained to do so.

 

[AANOTOK]

With the fragile state this economy is in and will be in for sometime, this administration nor any other would allow any union at AA to strike. Just a fact fellows.

The Union leadership of each union should be working with their members on ways to show their displeasure with the pace of contract talks by "legal" but message sending actions on the job. It can be done.

 

[The Goose]

With the fragile state this economy is in and will be in for sometime, this administration nor any other would allow any union at AA to strike. Just a fact fellows.

The Union leadership of each union should be working with their members on ways to show their displeasure with the pace of contract talks by "legal" but message sending actions on the job. It can be done.

I can't speak for the pilots nor the FAs but, in the case of the TWU, that would be like the company taking a job action against itself as there's no discernable difference between the two excepting, of course, the TWU being the branch of the company that collects dues from its "membership".

 

[galleyguy4u2]

From a Native F/A:


Ms. Glading, Mr. Durkin, Ms. Pointer, Mr Barrera and BOD:

I am appalled that you would even consider raising our union dues.
The APFA has failed for so long and you expect us to pay more into
this association? Currently Step 12 pay for domestic is at $42.65 and
international is $45.78 and either way you look, it's too much for
dues! I refuse to pay one damn cent more into this "union" until we
have leadership who will not SELL US OUT and a CONTRACT!

The current leadership of this "union" fails day in and day out.
Having flight attendants fired for being dues arrears, even when they
send a payment in and it was rejected! Leaving the office on
Thursday, so you can make your flights home. The "union" operates M-
F, 9-5 ct and it should be staffed until 5pm on Friday by everyone! I
don't care if you live in Tokyo, you need to be in the office, period!

You always complain that the "union" is out of money. Here are some
ideas to save thousands of dollars:

1. Have all union meetings in Euless, TX (Stop wasting money on hotels
and extravagant meals)

2. Stop sending out stupid disks to wear behind our apfa pins. We
don't need a yellow/red plastic disk behind our apfa pins to show
unity to the company.

3. Stop sending out stupid pamphlets to keep us up to date on
negotiations and events. Post it on the website. We all have computers
and an iPhone, BlackBerry, PDA or some type of device to access the
internet on the go.

4. Any union leader who does not live in DFW, should not be allowed to
have an apartment or a car rental paid by the membership. Commuters
don't get an apartment or car rental paid for, why should you? It's
your choice to be an apfa leader and having to commute to/from your
hometowns, not ours.

I am against Resolution 4: We tried phone balloting back in 2003 after
we voted NO on concessions. We all know how that ended up! Having it
done electronically has issues as well. We can't trust you with our
ballots through phone or electronically. You have deceived us before
and you can do it again.

I am against Resolution 7: see first paragraph of this email for my
reasons

I am against Resolution 8: Making a member pay their dues so we can
vote who are on a FORCED LEAVE or FURLOUGHED is a disgrace. I refuse
and so will other members to pay any dues to vote when I'm FORCED onto
a leave or FURLOUGHED!

Ms. Glading, I have asked you before for your resignation and I am
asking again. Please resign and allow someone who knows what they are
doing to take your place. In fact, I ask all of the R2R slate to
resign. You have all failed this membership and we need leaders to
lead this union now and in the future.


In Disgust,

 

[FA Mikey]

Off topic post deleted by moderator.