APA Signs accord.

[nbmcg01]

nbmc01,
No offense, but the pie you speak of is an "AA" pie. Not an AE pie. Out of curiosity, how many cabin jumpseats are there on an emb 135/140/145, an ATR, a SAAB 340, and a CRJ700?
AMFAMAN, next time you're in RES, type E (star) (cross-lorain) employee number. Your travel record will show if you're jumpseat able.

A lot changed after 9-11. Before 9-11, I had numerous mechanics on the j/s. Haven't seen one since. (Think TSA)

If you have had a problem or know someone who has, did you or they contact your professional standards rep?

I don't work for AE. Never have been on any of their planes. There was a recent agreement allowing cabin jumpseat authority for the AE f/as. As for the "pie", I was speaking of negotiations. The pilots seem to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to contracts, rest seats, boarding priority, or their place in the "food chain". I have flown with the best and the "not so best". The great pilots were just that, great pilots. The others are the ones that felt the need to have everyone bow, curtsy, and salute. It is about time that "me too" provisions are of primary focus at AA. Might make for a more
equal division of the "pie".

 

[DISPVP]

Uh, last time I checked, the FDJ notation was simply freetext remarks on the G*L0/PALL, and not driven in any way by the E*# entry.

It is driven by your travel profile in Jetnet, which drives the E*. The FDJ notation is automatically appended to the G*L when you check in, if you have FDJ in your profile...

 

[AAStew]

Maybe it was AAStew

Sure it was...ha ha
You know I have no problem with the pilots occupying the jumpseat, but again it is the manner and the arrogance with which they have done things again.
As for not being allowed to ride in the cockpit jumpseat per FAR's, I will look into that. But as they say paper who what you put on it.

 

[DISPVP]

Sure it was...ha ha
You know I have no problem with the pilots occupying the jumpseat, but again it is the manner and the arrogance with which they have done things again.
As for not being allowed to ride in the cockpit jumpseat per FAR's, I will look into that. But as they say paper who what you put on it.

I will help you look into it. I am not going to post the entire FAR, it is pretty long, but I will tell you how to find it.
FAA.GOV
REGULATIONS & POLICIES
FERDERAL AIR REGULATIONS (FAR)
BROWSE PART 60-129
PART 121
121.547 ADMISSION TO FLIGHT DECK.

IMHO, what is says is that if you are authorized to ride up front by all the agencies that can authorize it under PART 119, there needs to be a available seat in the back in the event the Pilot in Command wants you to leave the cockpit.

UNLESS,

you are authorized to ride up front and you are a certificated airman. In that case, a seat need not be available in the back.

 

[jimntx]

Once again it is obvious that the cockpit crew members are like the Virgin Mary...without sin or error. They would, of course, give us reciprocity, but there are rules against us sitting in the cockpit that can not be changed and are graven in tablets of stone. Whereas, since our jumpseats can be occupied by anybody then, well, can't you see? It's as obvious as the nose on your face. Cockpit crewmembers should be given priority for occupying that seat, or any available F/C seat, or any available M/C seat, or the seat in the waiting area nearest the boarding door, or the first john on the left in the toilet.

Pay attention...they just want what God gave them at the beginning of the world.

 

[ArtTang]

I will help you look into it. I am not going to post the entire FAR, it is pretty long, but I will tell you how to find it.
FAA.GOV
REGULATIONS & POLICIES
FERDERAL AIR REGULATIONS (FAR)
BROWSE PART 60-129
PART 121
121.547 ADMISSION TO FLIGHT DECK.

IMHO, what is says is that if you are authorized to ride up front by all the agencies that can authorize it under PART 119, there needs to be a available seat in the back in the event the Pilot in Command wants you to leave the cockpit.
UNLESS,

you are authorized to ride up front and you are a certificated airman. In that case, a seat need not be available in the back.

DISPVP,

Thanks for your efforts to get to the root of the matter. I have received conflicting information regarding the question as to why flight attendants cannot occupy a cockpit jumpseat on AA. I ended up writing the following letter to Brett Durkin, the vice-president of the APFA whom I have known for many years. Hopefully, I will receive some answers from the union regarding these questions.

Note: my beef and the flight attendants' beef is with the APA's proposal. I do not wish to lump all pilots together or characterize them as being of a particular mindset. I believe most pilots are terrific people and even better coworkers, but there are exceptions (in every work group, including the flight attendants) to this rule.

Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Art Tang
IMA

Hi Brett,

After the APA's proposal became known to the general public, almost every flight attendant, including me, has felt a degree of anger and resentment toward the pilots's union. I realize Tommie has written a "corrective" to Ralph, but there are still a couple questions that everyone is asking. Perhaps you can answer them so I can share the information and, hopefully, put an end to some of the "disinformation" that is circulating.

1) What are the REAL, TRUE rules regarding flight attendants riding on a cockpit jump seat? I understand f/as at Jet Blue do it, and Air France allows it. So, is the reason for which we flight attendants at AA are barred from the cockpit jump seat due to FAA policy, AA policy, or APA policy?

If it is a company or APA policy, why doesn't Tommie simply ask Ralph for reciprocity vis-a-vis jump seat riding? This would seemingly resolve the debate between the APFA and the APA regarding the matter.

2) Equally important in my eyes is the APA's attempt to secure boarding priority for its pilots over the f/as when deadheading. I agree the system as it currently operates is broken. For example: have you deadheaded lately from, say, London to Miami with a whole crew? The entire crew magically reverts to a group of 7 year old brats fighting
for the best piece of candy (or in this case, the best available seat).

Whereas some flight attendants and pilots would disagree with me, I believe the best way to resolve this dispute is to honor seniority down the list. If the captain is senior, let her get first crack at the business class seat. If the #3 flight attendant is senior, then he should get priority. This is the only way to resolve the issue while
avoiding hierarchical divisions between the work groups. Note: this should be implemented only when crews deadhead from a layover and arrive together at the airport. Deadheading from home base should remain as it currently is because each crew member can get to the airport at his/her leisure in order to be placed on the upgrade list.

This idea would be easy to implement: the company would merely inform the agents that crews arriving from the hotel and deadheading together should be accommodated in order of seniority, regardless of position.

Why has Tommie not addressed this concern in her letter to Ralph? To allow the APA to walk all over us is not an option. At a minimum, Tommie needs to let the pilots' union know that its
attempt to secure boarding priority is, from the flight attendants's persepctive, nothing more than an effort to assert what the APA believes is the inherent pilot authority and superiority over the flight attendant. I was stunned that she failed to mention the issue in her letter to the APA.

OK, these are the questions that are circulating among the line flight attendants. Can you please provide clarification? If not, can you forward my letter to someone who can provide the answers?

Thanks, as always.

Art Tang
IMA

 

[AMFAMAN]

UNLESS,

you are authorized to ride up front and you are a certificated airman. In that case, a seat need not be available in the back.

Which a A&P mechanic is, as it's stated on my license.

 

[AAviator]

Which a A&P mechanic is, as it's stated on my license.

AMFAMAN, does the language still exist in your CBA?

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFAMAN, does the language still exist in your CBA?

As far as we, the membership knows, yes it does. It was added in 2001, and not removed with the concessions. They pulled the grievance in 2004 or 2005, so they might have signed it away then, we will never know.

 

[AAviator]

As far as we, the membership knows, yes it does. It was added in 2001, and not removed with the concessions. They pulled the grievance in 2004 or 2005, so they might have signed it away then, we will never know.

So you don't have access to your own contract?

By the way,
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

 

[Skymess]

By the way,
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Happy Thanksgiving from me too.

 

[Mach85ER]

What Air France or any other foreign carrier does with it's jumpseats doesn't apply in this case.

In the JetBlue case, I've heard they must have a seat open in back (FA JS?).

Another poster mentioned FAR's as if they are written in stone. That is a pretty good description. Nothing APA or AA does is going to change that. Best thing to hope for would be a familiarization program for FA's to ride up front. In the end a seat still has to be available in back so it's a moot point.

I would support letting FA's ride in an open CP Jumpseat strictly on Captains permission.

I do find the tone of many posters here somewhat amusing. "All for One, One for All", or nobody is superior or more special than others sounds great but lacking in practice. I don't seem to recall much indignation or sorrow here when the pilots took as much as a 50% paycut post 9/11, and still lag the industry leaders. <_<

 

[AAviator]

I would support letting FA's ride in an open CP Jumpseat strictly on Captains permission.

The captain has full and final authority on jumpseat occupancy anyway as governed by FAR's.

 

[Mach85ER]

The captain has full and final authority on jumpseat occupancy anyway as governed by FAR's.

I'm well aware of that.

I also find it amusing at the gyrations a certain percentage of crewmembers go through to deny that the Captain has authority and responsibility over them.
My only comment is, "Welcome to the party"

Hope everyone has a good T-Day, my best for all.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

So you don't have access to your own contract?

By the way,
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

FYI...The jumpseat was agreed upon with the company and added as part of the highlight package to sell the 2001 contract but was never inserted into the contract book as a result of objections from the Title 2,3,4,5 workers along with non-licensed mechanics and some management workers. The APA was said to have voice their concerns after 9-11. From the highlight sheet.

Miscellaneous Items

New Policy for Jumpseat authorization for Title I A&P certificate holder to travel for business and leisure travel