Pilots at "standstill"

[Mach85ER]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='435822' date='Dec 6 2006, 09:06 PM']I would never give up our jumpseat so the pilots can have their way. I would rather see the pilots shoot themselves in the foot with AA and lose the PEK route![/quote]

Typical head of their arse statement by a FA.

-Full flight

-Both cockpit J/S full

-Pilot non-rev with seat

-FA gets her cabin jumpseat, but Granny is with her and behind the pilot non-rev on list.

------------------------------------

Options?

1. Last resort, put pilot on FA jumpseat, Granny gets pilot cabin seat

2. Toss Granny, send her to La Quinta, FA has standards you know :blink:



Try some logic sometime, the flow chart some use where the ending box says (it's not fair) is useless most of the time.



(stew, just saw your reply, that's the only time I'd consider riding there, I'd decline the seat more due to respecting the FA's limited work/inflight space than anything else)

 

[IORFA]

Yeah, you would probably be the only pilot to do that. Mostly likely it would be pilots like my fellow commuter who only flys to a certain german city. Amazingly every time he goes home, he is ALWAYS on the standby list before his flight lands. That is the kind of attitude we get the privilage of dealing with. He probably offered the suggestion that APA demand priority D/H including removing F/C pax if traveling A1. While also trying to steal access to OUR J/S without reciprocating anything in return and all the while $crewing AE F/A's who also ride our J/S's.

 

[mistified]

Don't waste your time trying to be "rational" with the pilots on here. They don't get it. Never will either. Save your breath. For far too long airlines put them on a pedastal(sic) and now that reality has struck them, they refuse to see the light. Problem is they just don't like being treated like everyone else.

I predict the pilots biggest obsatcle in contract negoitaions is not going to be management but the other labor groups preceptions (i.e. me too syndrome). Some of the prejudice/sterotype comments made here are smack with it.
"Monetary equality" will be the next rally cry. All at the expense of trashing others who are resented because they make more money and have more authourity (or use to). Sad but true. Airline Managements love it when the other labor groups do this.
If Doctors and Nurses were in seperate organized labor groups which both ran off seniorty, I believe you would have a similar dysfunctional relationship.
Personally I don't know why any of you would want to work in that enviroment anymore. As with so many other things in life, I am sure it was not like that in the "old days".

Just my observation

I predict the pilots biggest obsatcle

opps-sorry should be: obstacle

 

[AAviator]

Yeah, you would probably be the only pilot to do that. Mostly likely it would be pilots like my fellow commuter who only flys to a certain german city. Amazingly every time he goes home, he is ALWAYS on the standby list before his flight lands. That is the kind of attitude we get the privilage of dealing with.

IORFA, ever hear of Jetnet? Where's the foul you're whining about? I know cats can't type, but isn't there someone else you can have put you on a standby list 4 hours prior?

Every day pilots work out weight restrictions to get non-revs on. Often its just for a cabin jumpseater. For you to have such a piss poor perception of how this would work out shows a lot. It only means one less standby left behind.

Mistified, you've hit the ten ring. There's another thread here where some F/A's used the term "more paltable for the F/A's" when commenting on the LOA.

 

[IORFA]

Jetnet wasn't created so someone could have a significant other on the standby list while you are still working. It cut out the trip to the airport and waiting there for 4 hours. Apparantly you don't know about the commuter sign up sheet here in ORD. The resloved the problem of getting on the standby list years ago. Or I should so for the ones who like to follow the rules that the aren't above. Don't forget that AA policy is that you NOT give out passwords to company controlled websites. So there is your "foul" you so wanted.

 

[AAviator]

Apparantly you don't know about the commuter sign up sheet here in ORD. The resloved the problem of getting on the standby list years ago.

No, Jetnet resolved the problem. Sorry it's not working out for you.

And please tell me, how do all those trip trade services work for the flight attendants? Certainly none of them have F/A passwords do they?

 

[IORFA]

They pay a fee to the company and get different access to your schedule. They need your birthdate for this. They don't want or need a DECS password from us. But thanks for asking. Also Jetnet wasn't made for people to skirt the system that was and is in place. Just follow the rules and play fair. Did you give out your password and cheat the standby sign up system as well? Sure sounds like it since you are defending it. Come to think of it, maybe you are the offender I am talking about.

 

[DISPVP]

Did you give out your password and cheat the standby sign up system as well?

What is the standby sign up system?

 

[AAStew]

We have been threatened with termination at JFK if someone puts us on the standby list before we land. Unfortunately it isn't something we can do. The pilots have their wives or significant others place them on the list but we have to wait until we land. Honestly, I think the company should just let this go and leave us alone.

 

[eolesen]

You clearly don't have a grasp on what pilots do and why BC or FC for deadheading is important.

OK. I guess I just imagined the four years that I managed nonrev policies and procedures, including jumpseat agreements for AA's pilots.

Now, not to sound mean, who do you want to be well rested, the flt attendant who is going to serve the drinks in the back or the pilots who need to be alert to fly the aircraft, especially in international operations?

The flight attendant who is going to notice Richard Reid trying to light his shoes on fire, or the customer slumped over in their seat from a heart attack (as happened on BA this past week).

If shite really does hit the fan, adrenaline is going to kick in pretty quickly for the pilots.

The hypocracy of the pilots is amazing.

They insist on F or J when it is on the company dime, but will do anything to avoid the service charges in F when they do their commute from East Weedpatch, Montana to ORD, LGA, etc.


You want to go by rank? Great. I can see putting the captain first. They've earned the position. But to say that a six or seven year FO "outranks" an eight year flight attendant is nothing but hubris and arrogence.

Crandall once gave up his seat in F so that a longtime employe and his wife could ride in first for their 20th wedding anniversary.

If it was good enough for Bob's arse as head of the company, certainly it's good enough for you.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Options?

1. Last resort, put pilot on FA jumpseat, Granny gets pilot cabin seat

2. Toss Granny, send her to La Quinta, FA has standards you know

If the pilots get their way, you left out 2 additional options:

3. Pilot calls f/a: Pilot - "I need to us the facilities." F/A - "Sorry it's occupied." Pilot - "Call me when it's available." F/A - "It will be a while. Pax need to use it first. Remember they pay our salaries."

Pilot wets him/her self...Oh darn!

4. Pilot calls f/a: Pilot - "Can we get our meals?" F/A - "To busy taking care of our customers." Pilot - "Call when you can deliver them." F/A - "If I get time. The passengers come first and you come last."

Pilot never gets crew meal...Oh darn!

Remember what goes around comes around!

 

[Mach85ER]

If shite really does hit the fan, adrenaline is going to kick in pretty quickly for the pilots.

Mod,

I think flyboy is closer to the mark regarding rest than you are. Adrenaline doesn't have a place in the cockpit, period. Operating that way has been proven to kill. If we hit the adrenaline point in the cockpit, we've failed in other ways, most of which adequate rest is a factor.

You mentioned Richard Reid, that is true in that case where a quick reaction saved that flight and most likely this airline. Adrenaline is a much more valuable trait in back than in front.

You want to go by rank? Great. I can see putting the captain first. They've earned the position. But to say that a six or seven year FO "outranks" an eight year flight attendant is nothing but hubris and arrogence.

Crandall once gave up his seat in F so that a longtime employe and his wife could ride in first for their 20th wedding anniversary.

If it was good enough for Bob's arse as head of the company, certainly it's good enough for you.

Why is an FO paid more than a FA Mod? arrogance or hubris?
Why does a 3-4 year manager have priority over a FO or a FA? Same reason? The biggest reason that this issue has come up is crew rest, especially with the amount of long DH's that have come up. 20 hours in a center coach seat followed by a 22 hour layover before returning is not what I would like to see for my pilots if I'm riding DEL-ORD into a winter storm. In a sense, a well rested pilot crew reduces the chances our highly trained FA's with have to use their skills as a result of a pilot mistake.

Crandall did a good thing in that case. I've done the same in the past. If the DH issue goes APA's way I think the FA's will see some real leadership out of many (not all) pilots. I've done it, I've watched many others do it too. Under the current plan, It's gotten a little old watching 6 FA's spin themselves up during an 8 hour all nighter just because they think 2 pilots may end up ahead of them on the list.





Nor'Easta,

Are you going to threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue also?

Feel free to try your ideas if you think you can get away with it with some crews, they deserve it if they let you. Just don't act surprised if you find yourself suddenly moved from #1 to #3-10+, or left at the gate next leg.

 

[flyboymd8]

OK. I guess I just imagined the four years that I managed nonrev policies and procedures, including jumpseat agreements for AA's pilots.
The flight attendant who is going to notice Richard Reid trying to light his shoes on fire, or the customer slumped over in their seat from a heart attack (as happened on BA this past week).

If shite really does hit the fan, adrenaline is going to kick in pretty quickly for the pilots.

The hypocracy of the pilots is amazing.

They insist on F or J when it is on the company dime, but will do anything to avoid the service charges in F when they do their commute from East Weedpatch, Montana to ORD, LGA, etc.
You want to go by rank? Great. I can see putting the captain first. They've earned the position. But to say that a six or seven year FO "outranks" an eight year flight attendant is nothing but hubris and arrogence.

Crandall once gave up his seat in F so that a longtime employe and his wife could ride in first for their 20th wedding anniversary.

If it was good enough for Bob's arse as head of the company, certainly it's good enough for you.

Well, I don't know what you did for the company for those 4 years, but if you were in management for that time, then you should know that not only do the FARs define the FO as SECOND IN COMMAND, so does company policy. Those are simple facts, nothing made up. Whether you think a 20 year FA should outrank a 5 year FO is meaningless.
As for Crandle giving up his seat, that has nothing to do with DH priority to duty, stick to the facts and stop going off on tangents. But please do try to get some help regarding you jealousy issues with pilots.

 

[mistified]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='436323' date='Dec 8 2006, 10:48 AM']If the pilots get their way, you left out 2 additional options:

3. Pilot calls f/a: Pilot - "I need to us the facilities." F/A - "Sorry it's occupied." Pilot - "Call me when it's available." F/A - "It will be a while. Pax need to use it first. Remember they pay our salaries."
Pilot wets him/her self...Oh darn!
Remember what goes around comes around! [/quote]

That a F/A would write this here is really sad and pathetic.

 

[FWAAA]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='435822' date='Dec 6 2006, 01:06 PM']I would rather see the pilots shoot themselves in the foot with AA and lose the PEK route![/quote]

AA doesn't stand a chance of getting its requested DFW-PEK route anyway; CO will be awarded its EWR-PVG route request.