APA Ready for Federal Mediation...

[AirLUVer]

From what I have heard, APA has pretty consistantly cancelled a lot of meetings with company negotiators. This is the main reason the company has little interest in involving mediators. When meetings do take place, union officials frequently walk out of the meetings.

SOP for trying to drag out negotiations for when the economy might be more viable and demands are more likely to be met.

The government would probably opt not to involve mediators yet, when an evaluation of the negotiations are made. I am sure that the company will probably push for arbitration, if an empasse is declared and the economy does not have significant improvement from current conditions.

All of the above is IMHO.

 

[Richard]

MOD NOTE:

There can only be one thread per union per week--we have merged the APA mediation thread with the AA Opposes Mediation as both discuss the same topic.

Please refrain from starting new threads if the topic is already being discussed elsewhere.

Thank you.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Arpey is a bean counter; by comparison

No, Arpey is a baggage handler. Let's not forget that very important fact. This man used to be down on the line with the very people he is now enriching himself by screwing - and that is a very important fact not to forget.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

The government would probably opt not to involve mediators yet, when an evaluation of the negotiations are made. I am sure that the company will probably push for arbitration, if an empasse is declared and the economy does not have significant improvement from current conditions.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. If AA can force arbitration, Union folk can kiss it goodbye.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

Unfortunately, I agree with you. If AA can force arbitration, Union folk can kiss it goodbye.

The twu local 565 president has stated many times that our contract will be going to arbitration if mediation fails. As always, you can count on the twu to start another union destroying trend. :down:

 

[Winglet]

From what I have heard, APA has pretty consistantly cancelled a lot of meetings with company negotiators. This is the main reason the company has little interest in involving mediators. When meetings do take place, union officials frequently walk out of the meetings.

SOP for trying to drag out negotiations for when the economy might be more viable and demands are more likely to be met.

The government would probably opt not to involve mediators yet, when an evaluation of the negotiations are made. I am sure that the company will probably push for arbitration, if an empasse is declared and the economy does not have significant improvement from current conditions.

All of the above is IMHO.

All part of the company disinformation campaign straight out the "negotiation" playbook 101. STALL STALL STALL and put a good portion of the money you take out of the workers pockets in your own personal management pocket. Make up fish stories about the union. Conduct a disinformation campaign by putting company shills on public BBs, etc and lie lie lie.

Very predictable and expected. Expect threatening and pressuring phone calls to pilot spouses at home later on when it really gets ugly. Don't get all worked up. That's what management wants. Stay resolute and focused on the end game.

 

[uvagal]

All part of the company disinformation campaign straight out the "negotiation" playbook 101. STALL STALL STALL and put a good portion of the money you take out of the workers pockets in your own personal management pocket. Make up fish stories about the union. Conduct a disinformation campaign by putting company shills on public BBs, etc and lie lie lie.

Very predictable and expected. Expect threatening and pressuring phone calls to pilot spouses at home later on when it really gets ugly. Don't get all worked up. That's what management wants. Stay resolute and focused on the end game.

I have to weigh in on this one, because I think the writer is wrong about a few things. It's very difficult today for any company to put on a "disinformation" campaign - like the pilot salaries that APA is pushing, this notion is from an antiquated time. Information is so readily available now that people can make up their own minds by using alternative news sites, blogs, comment sections etc...so that people aren't swayed by labor union pr or company press releases. I don't know about company shills, but certainly union members, i.e. pilots, are weighing in on bulletin boards and blogs. Finally, "threatening and pressuring phone calls to pilot spouses?" Do you mean the little ladies at home? Where do you even get that stuff? Oh, and one more thing, what is the "end game?" The bankruptcy of American Airlines?

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh, and one more thing, what is the "end game?" The bankruptcy of American Airlines?

A fair wage. If AA cant do that then they should close up shop and let the owners of the equipement and facilities lease their stuff to someone who can.

The bankruptcy threat is about as terrifying as "the boogeyman is going to get you". We've heard it and seen it enough to know that BK for the company isnt as bad to employees as concessions under the threat of BK.

 

[eolesen]

A fair wage.... there's a concept, as long as neither side filters out little things like what workers at other companies providing similar services are earning.

You like to point to what the minority of AMT's earn as the goal for your "fair wage" (i.e. unionized mechanics at WN & UPS), but completely ignore the wages paid to non-union AMT's in the US, and also ignore the fact that with regard to overhaul, you're competing with mechanics in other regions of the world.

The UAW has had the same problem with tunnel vision -- their costs have to be benchmarked not only with the other UAW represented workers, but the non-union guys working at US plants and those working in Canada and Mexico. I find it hard to justify the 40% premium paid to UAW assembly workers (avg $25/hr) vs. that paid to non-union assembly workers (avg ($13/hr). Location is one component, but I find it hard to believe that the guy working for GM in Arlington, TX or Moore, OK really has that much higher of cost of living than the non-union guy working for Toyota in San Antonio.

 

[lpbrian]

A fair wage.... there's a concept, as long as neither side filters out little things like what workers at other companies providing similar services are earning.

You like to point to what the minority of AMT's earn as the goal for your "fair wage" (i.e. unionized mechanics at WN & UPS), but completely ignore the wages paid to non-union AMT's in the US, and also ignore the fact that with regard to overhaul, you're competing with mechanics in other regions of the world.

The UAW has had the same problem with tunnel vision -- their costs have to be benchmarked not only with the other UAW represented workers, but the non-union guys working at US plants and those working in Canada and Mexico. I find it hard to justify the 40% premium paid to UAW assembly workers (avg $25/hr) vs. that paid to non-union assembly workers (avg ($13/hr). Location is one component, but I find it hard to believe that the guy working for GM in Arlington, TX or Moore, OK really has that much higher of cost of living than the non-union guy working for Toyota in San Antonio.

What does overhaul have to do wit this? WN and UPS are line mechs.. Compare apples to apples...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

A fair wage.... there's a concept, as long as neither side filters out little things like what workers at other companies providing similar services are earning.

You like to point to what the minority of AMT's earn as the goal for your "fair wage" (i.e. unionized mechanics at WN & UPS), but completely ignore the wages paid to non-union AMT's in the US, and also ignore the fact that with regard to overhaul, you're competing with mechanics in other regions of the world.

The UAW has had the same problem with tunnel vision -- their costs have to be benchmarked not only with the other UAW represented workers, but the non-union guys working at US plants and those working in Canada and Mexico. I find it hard to justify the 40% premium paid to UAW assembly workers (avg $25/hr) vs. that paid to non-union assembly workers (avg ($13/hr). Location is one component, but I find it hard to believe that the guy working for GM in Arlington, TX or Moore, OK really has that much higher of cost of living than the non-union guy working for Toyota in San Antonio.

Google COLA and input any line station and compare the COLA to tulsa
You will see the disparity is as high as 30 percent. That 30 percent gets me another 8 dollars per hour.
As far as I am concerned. Leave the contract as is but give me my COLA because I sure as hell aint movin to tulsa

 

[Bob Owens]

From what I hear the TWU is trying to sell the APAs bold move as a
sellout". John Iulianno told one of his shop stewards that the APA was "folding" by requesting mediation. No doubt this is what he was told at the Presidents Council by the International. Guess he doesnt understand "the process" even though he touts following it all the time.

 

[Bob Owens]

A fair wage.... there's a concept, as long as neither side filters out little things like what workers at other companies providing similar services are earning.

You like to point to what the minority of AMT's earn as the goal for your "fair wage" (i.e. unionized mechanics at WN & UPS), but completely ignore the wages paid to non-union AMT's in the US, and also ignore the fact that with regard to overhaul, you're competing with mechanics in other regions of the world.

So workers who were encouraged to make sacrifices for years to make the company they work for number 1 should expect to be paid what the airline in last place pays?

As far as the worldwide competition thats not as much of a factor as you make it out to be, a lot of overhaul work from other coutries is still shipped into the US, especially the high tech stuff. Ad into that the cost of fuel and doing overhaul overseas is not as much of a bargain as it used to be unless the plane is flown there and back on revenue flights.

Workers at AA should expect nothing less than to be number 1 in pay.