APA Signs accord.

[AMFAMAN]

I find it hard to believe a man got fired because of some captains' letter. Was there a 29f ? What was he terminated for? If that was done here there would be a riot.

Yes on the 29F, and I did just look into it again, and he was brought back after 2 months, 2nd step, zero back pay. Riots, no way, this is the keep you in the dark local. :down:

Fixer:

I don't have many of the details, as the local never let out anything, but that is the norm at this local. The only fact I can confirm is the letter to the man and what I wrote above.

 

[Bagbelt]

I wasn't questioning your honesty, I just never heard of something like that unless he threatened him or took a dump on the floor- even then it's one guys word against another. That 2nd step should be pulled after 6 months.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I wasn't questioning your honesty,

Didn't take it like that at all.

2 years on the second step is what's being said, and it all stems from a delay of a flight. No rule 32's or any of that stuff was involved.

 

[777 fixer]

Yes on the 29F, and I did just look into it again, and he was brought back after 2 months, 2nd step, zero back pay. Riots, no way, this is the keep you in the dark local. :down:

Fixer:

I don't have many of the details, as the local never let out anything, but that is the norm at this local. The only fact I can confirm is the letter to the man and what I wrote above.

Do you have more information about this? What were the circumstances that led up to this? What was the pilots main gripe? Is the AMT in question going to take this farther? I figure if he was in the right it would only make sense to do so.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Do you have more information about this? What were the circumstances that led up to this? What was the pilots main gripe? Is the AMT in question going to take this farther? I figure if he was in the right it would only make sense to do so.

I am told it was over a 777 delay that was taking longer then they expected.

I can only assume as I don't know the facts, but the crew probally got the standard 10 minutes to fix it, and it took quite a bit longer.

I don't know what the AMT's intentions are at this point.

 

[777 fixer]

I am told it was over a 777 delay that was taking longer then they expected.

I can only assume as I don't know the facts, but the crew probally got the standard 10 minutes to fix it, and it took quite a bit longer.

I don't know what the AMT's intentions are at this point.

It would be interesting to know the particulars. And if he is in the right I hope he fights it.

 

[L1011Ret]

As to the main heading on this topic, according to news reports, AA has rejected the APA's request for enhancements.

 

[jimntx]

Only the APA would demand concessions from the company in return for agreeing to added service that might result in the recall of more pilots.

 

[eolesen]

As to the main heading on this topic, according to news reports, AA has rejected the APA's request for enhancements.

Which probably means DOT has already told AA they're not getting the route, so it's a no-brainer to even consider enhancements outside of the S.6 negotiations already underway.

 

[AAviator]

Only the APA would demand concessions from the company in return for agreeing to added service that might result in the recall of more pilots.

Well, They're up to number 80 on the recall list and only 7 so far are coming back.

Art, care to post the reply to the letter you sent?

 

[Bob Owens]

Only the APA would demand concessions from the company in return for agreeing to added service that might result in the recall of more pilots.

Are you for real? The pilots should capitalize on any opportunity to get something back. As for recall AA probably shot themselves in the foot, what makes you think that all those laid off airline workers are out there waiting to get recalled? Most of the mechanics I know have no intentions on coming back and a good chunk that didnt get laid off are looking to get out.

 

[Bob Owens]

With not much less seniority than you claim, and 5 fleet types flown, 99.99% of the interactions are handing the Mechs a logbook with a write up, and patiently waiting for the paperwork to clear. Never have I seen a Captain dress down a Mech (they would just probably giggle and go about their business). I've seen a few FA's get it, one or two agents, but it was earned. You're portraying an image of Judge Smales yelling at the shoeshine guy in "Caddyshack", wishful thinking on your part but not true.

While I'd rather not get into this too deep, as I think most pilots are well behaved and professional, at least thats been my experience, it could be that those who are more prone to "dress down" others are not as likely to try it on someone with a 4-D cell maglight in his right hand as they would someone in a dress. Bullies exist all over the place, not just in the cockpits, but they usually go for the easy marks.

 

[jimntx]

Are you for real? The pilots should capitalize on any opportunity to get something back. As for recall AA probably shot themselves in the foot, what makes you think that all those laid off airline workers are out there waiting to get recalled? Most of the mechanics I know have no intentions on coming back and a good chunk that didnt get laid off are looking to get out.

Evidently, you didn't read the whole thread. The pilots were not "trying to get something back," they were trying to get things they have never had by taking away from other groups--such as, the cabin jumpseats and boarding priority, etc.

It's a moot point though. The company said, No. Unfortunately, I think whoever posted that the company said no because they've already found out that they are not getting DFW-PEK is right.

 

[Bob Owens]

AMFAMAN,

All "out of line" in my book.

You won't get an immediate response, but an increase of emails to APA Professional Standards will work over time.

The overwhelming majority have a short tolerance for actions like Power Plug Pilot, especially outside of a certain large state.

Take care

Glad to hear it. However we do have a few in NY that need a good talking to. We had an incident not too long ago where a pilot reportedly wrote a bunch of items on a napkin and disrespectfully tossed it at the mechanic saying, "here take a look at this stuff". The mechanic told him "put it in the book, I dont work off a napkin". The pilot went irate and the mechanic stood his ground. We were told that the pilot even wrote a letter to management complaining that the mechanic refused to work off a napkin! When local management called for a hearing the mechanic demanded to see the letter, well obviosly once he did that the whole thing was dropped. The mechanics first stop with that letter would have been to make a copy and ASAP it.

The sad part is a lot of pilots actually believe that we saved our pension. Giving up over 20% of your pay for a promise that is so easily broken is a bad move.But then again the pilots gave up 25% but they got back 10% the first year didnt they?

The fact is that the company has proven that they cant be trusted, and to think that the company will fulfill its promise to pay us when we no longer work for them when they have broken promises and lied to us when we are working for them is lunacy.

I think that AAs plan will save them a lot more money than UAL or any of the others saved. By getting the unions to help AA convince the government to allow them to spread out their pension payments over a longer period it allows the company to grow that liability to enormous proportions. Its not as if pensions are static, as the years go by the liability grows. Another factor is that the workforce at AA is grower older at a faster than national average, because they are not hiring, and more money will need to be put away per employeee. The mimimum payments that they are making are less than they would be laying out if we switched to a company match 401K like UAL or SWA. So during the next round of negotiations UAL wont have much to threaten their members with but AA will still be using the pension, one more long term concessionary contract and a "regrettable, but unavoidable" trip to C-11 and the liability is gone, and so is most of your pension.Even if they dont eventually go BK, when AA starts to hire what do you think the new hires will be going for? They already have diminished expectations as far as pensions go, and to vote to discontinue yours would be nothing off their backs if it eliminated a few steps to top pay. That long progression you guys have will hurt you guys down the road.All the company has to do is offer a package to its oldest pilots and offer to eliminate a few steps and you have another concessionary contract in place.

 

[ArtTang]

Well, They're up to number 80 on the recall list and only 7 so far are coming back.

Art, care to post the reply to the letter you sent?

I have not yet received a response from the V-P of the APFA. I'll be sure to share the good word when he writes back (if he writes back). Hopefully it will be this week.

Art Tang
IMA