APA Signs accord.

[nbmcg01]

What Air France or any other foreign carrier does with it's jumpseats doesn't apply in this case.

In the JetBlue case, I've heard they must have a seat open in back (FA JS?).

Another poster mentioned FAR's as if they are written in stone. That is a pretty good description. Nothing APA or AA does is going to change that. Best thing to hope for would be a familiarization program for FA's to ride up front. In the end a seat still has to be available in back so it's a moot point.

I would support letting FA's ride in an open CP Jumpseat strictly on Captains permission.

I do find the tone of many posters here somewhat amusing. "All for One, One for All", or nobody is superior or more special than others sounds great but lacking in practice. I don't seem to recall much indignation or sorrow here when the pilots took as much as a 50% paycut post 9/11, and still lag the industry leaders. <_<

Since I took a 100% pay cut I can assure you that am just as outraged over pilot pay cuts, (ramp, mechanics, lower management, et al). Especially given the bonus payments that "some" enjoyed. Reality dictates that just because you're driving the bus, you may be the team leader of that particular flight BUT you are not superior to any other front line employee just because you wear pilot's wings. I think that is a difficult concept for many pilots.

 

[jetmechjer]

The captain has full and final authority on jumpseat occupancy anyway as governed by FAR's.

No he does not!!! It is not his airplane untill the mechanic lets him have it!!! And it is not his jumpseat if I placard it. Which I do on every possible occassion. Hey if the mechanics can not use it then I sure the hell aint gonna fix it!! They pay us nothing extra to taxi the aircraft through out the system but we can not ride it the jumpseat. We know it is the pilots stopping it becuase we have been told that at our round table meetings with them. In those meeting they try to convince us we are equal and in this together. That is untill it comes to the cockpit jumpseat!! Had a friend miss a full day with his dieing father because the pilot would not let him use the jumpseat to SJU. Nice Eh?? But they want us to ride in that seat if we are on the clock going to or back from a field trip. Screw that!!! There is nothing going on in that cockpit we mechanics dont't know about..........after all we are the ones fixing the things that get wore out the most. And that is the auto pilot knobs and the seat bottom cushions!!!!!!
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "GOD" AND A PILOT???
"GOD DOES NOT THINK HE IS A PILOT!!!

 

[AAStew]

Hey guys, let the pilots think they are God in the cockpit, we all know what they are at home.
The company looks for this profile when they hire them. That is why so many do have the God complex. Kind of like that movie many of them watched when they became Naval Aviators, "Sex and the Naval Aviator".
It is okay...really, let them keep believing it. They are so wonderful at compartalization. :bleh:
I agree with Art, some pilots are wonderful...yet some aren't.

 

[Mach85ER]

Hey guys, let the pilots think they are God in the cockpit,.........

After 15 years of flying at AA, there are far more "Gods" or "Goddesses" of the cabins and galleys than I have ever seen in the left seats.

Those like AAStew and JetmMech have in their minds invented more "God's" than the Hindus have.

I think in my AA time, I can count on one hand the Captains that would fit the above description. They, like a certain amount of those in back, make their own, and their co-workers miserable by blowing every perceived or actual slight out of proportion.

Those under the command of a Captain of an airliner today are asked to perform very little compared to most other Boss/Subordinate jobs.

 

[jimntx]

After 15 years of flying at AA, there are far more "Gods" or "Goddesses" of the cabins and galleys than I have ever seen in the left seats.

Those like AAStew and JetmMech have in their minds invented more "God's" than the Hindus have.

I think in my AA time, I can count on one hand the Captains that would fit the above description. They, like a certain amount of those in back, make their own, and their co-workers miserable by blowing every perceived or actual slight out of proportion.

Those under the command of a Captain of a airliner today are asked to perform very little compared to most other Boss/Subordinate jobs.

Well, we wouldn't expect the pot to notice that the kettle was black, now would we?

 

[Mach85ER]

Well, we wouldn't expect the pot to notice that the kettle was black, now would we?

Not really, I'll let the facts do the talking.

DFW has over 2000 pilots. They only have 4 Chief Pilots to deal with the small minority of "problem children" or "Gods". MIA has 1200 pilots and only 2 Chief Pilots. The FA side is a little different even figuring the larger numbers.

How many FA supervisors does DFW have? MIA? The Flight office door in MIA slams shut at 3:58 pm. The FA's have a little manned command center open till almost midnight. I also wonder what the people in all those cubicles in FA ops actually do, trade cat pictures to hang up?

I do get a large laugh out of your kettle statement.

 

[jimntx]

Noticing that another commits the same "sins" as oneself--i.e., the pot calling the kettle black--is not the same thing as one work group needing more supervision as the other. Warning! Warning! Fallacious argument!

The fact that the Pilot Ops office closes early may be as much a proof of the current argument as anything. A bunch of jerks would all think they are perfect including the supervisors of those jerks. (And, don't get me wrong. I was just being funny. I have very little, if any, problem with cockpit crews.)

And, the supervisors of pilots are other pilots are they not? The supervisors of flight attendants are quite often just the simpering A**-kissers who can answer the questions right on that inane telephone interview with HR. When I was at Texaco, we didn't allow HR to make final decisions about where to eat lunch; much less have final say on whether or not someone was qualified for a job.

And, yes. Among FSMs, trading cat pictures is their major activity--with the exception of SLT. There are only 3 at my base and they are hardworking, dedicated employees. I once had one at DFW that was so useless that if you said to her, "Excuse me, you are standing on my foot," her initial response would be to look up at you with a bored expression and say, "I'm sorry. There's nothing I can do about that." Then, she would go back to reading her fashion magazine--none of whose tips she was ever seen to adopt.

 

[jetmechjer]

After 15 years of flying at AA, there are far more "Gods" or "Goddesses" of the cabins and galleys than I have ever seen in the left seats.

Those like AAStew and JetmMech have in their minds invented more "God's" than the Hindus have.

I think in my AA time, I can count on one hand the Captains that would fit the above description. They, like a certain amount of those in back, make their own, and their co-workers miserable by blowing every perceived or actual slight out of proportion.

Those under the command of a Captain of an airliner today are asked to perform very little compared to most other Boss/Subordinate jobs.

After over 22 years working on our fine aircraft and dealing with our cockpit GODS I will enlighten you to the truth. When I started 22 years ago I would estimate that there were maybe 20 percent a%$holes flying for us. But since then it has increased greatly!! I would have to estimate that at least 50% of them are in thier minds now officially Gods and would sell thier grandmothers if they got a good price!!
The pilots are for the pilots ....period!!!!!
They talk a good story to your face but the world revolves around them. I hope the flight attendants do not buy thier story that we are all in this together against the company!! I will remind everyone one more time that just a few years back they wanted priority boarding for them and all their family before everyone else for leisure travel. This just proves that they think that their time is more important than every other worker at AA!!

 

[eolesen]

Is it just a coincidence that 22 years ago, 80 percent of the pilots hired were ex-military, and today less than 50 percent of the pilots hired are ex-military?

 

[Mach85ER]

After over 22 years working on our fine aircraft and dealing with our cockpit GODS I will enlighten you to the truth. When I started 22 years ago I would estimate that there were maybe 20 percent a%$holes flying for us. But since then it has increased greatly!!

Would you have some examples perhaps?

Unless it's direct contact with the TUL tech guys, what exact input does a AA pilot have on how you do your job, or why would you even care?

With not much less seniority than you claim, and 5 fleet types flown, 99.99% of the interactions are handing the Mechs a logbook with a write up, and patiently waiting for the paperwork to clear. Never have I seen a Captain dress down a Mech (they would just probably giggle and go about their business). I've seen a few FA's get it, one or two agents, but it was earned. You're portraying an image of Judge Smales yelling at the shoeshine guy in "Caddyshack", wishful thinking on your part but not true.

The past non-rev priority issue has been beat to death. It you want to ignore the background of it, go ahead.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Would you have some examples perhaps?

Unless it's direct contact with the TUL tech guys, what exact input does a AA pilot have on how you do your job, or why would you even care?

With not much less seniority than you claim, and 5 fleet types flown, 99.99% of the interactions are handing the Mechs a logbook with a write up, and patiently waiting for the paperwork to clear. Never have I seen a Captain dress down a Mech (they would just probably giggle and go about their business).

Not sure where you're flying these days but at DFW I seen more than enough of my share of, let just say rude, pilots. They appear to take on this new, "gotta save my pension" attitude and are alot more demanding as of late. One even went out of his way to write a letter to our CEO about a mechanics work performance and cost him his job, even though the mechanic was in the right. It's not like you guys don't know we have a useless union, and letters to the man will get us fired.

A few weeks ago I witnessed a captain on a terminator go down stairs and plug in his own power cord because and I quote: "that fuel from the APU is going to cost me my pension."

I've also had a dramatic increase of pilots telling how to do my job as of late. They also have started to overrule our decision not to board the aircraft, even though it makes the job much harder.

So Mach85er, I do appreciate that you are not this type of pilot I describe, but there are many in your ranks, and I know there are quite a few in my ranks too, but as of late, "Captain Save My Pension" is quite the norm around here and it comes with an attitude.

 

[Mach85ER]

AMFAMAN,

All "out of line" in my book.

You won't get an immediate response, but an increase of emails to APA Professional Standards will work over time.

The overwhelming majority have a short tolerance for actions like Power Plug Pilot, especially outside of a certain large state.

Take care

 

[Bagbelt]

I find it hard to believe a man got fired because of some captains' letter. Was there a 29f ? What was he terminated for? If that was done here there would be a riot.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Does it include pilots having a higher boarding priority on standby? I am waiting for them to try that again.

 

[777 fixer]

One even went out of his way to write a letter to our CEO about a mechanics work performance and cost him his job, even though the mechanic was in the right. It's not like you guys don't know we have a useless union, and letters to the man will get us fired.

When did this happen and what were the circumstances?