APA Signs accord.

[High Speed Steel]

Me, I'll settle for the twu simply to do what I ask them to do. PROTECT & DEFEND my craft and profession.

If you will PROTECT & DEFEND Charlies true profession, your craft and profession will be safe.

Remember:

"Back to the Basics" & "If we build it, they will come".

 

[Mach85ER]

Its not enough they feel entitled to F/C seats before anyone else, now they want our jumpseats?
regardless.. the jumpseat was negotiated in the mid 70s, it isn't APAs to claim, that in itself dose not bode well toward labor/labor relations at the company. To add insult to injury, there was no word from APA to APFA about their intentions before this pseudo-LOA hit the streets.. Its just nerv-ey....

You're right, it's a much better system right now for 8 hour DHD's back to base, where "Bitzi" is selected to run out of the aircraft as the agent opens the door and scam the best seats for her and her select group of FA buddies. Put the 35 year CA in the center coach seat 😀

now they want our jumpseats?
regardless.. the jumpseat was negotiated in the mid 70s, it isn't APAs to claim, that in itself dose not bode well toward labor/labor relations at the company.

Read the facts again. Any pilot would go there after any AA FA and after all C/P JS's all full. APA's proposal might actually help OA FA's get on a flight and therefore help getting/maintaining OA FA jumpseat agreements. See if you can put aside your rage and figure it out. As a side note, most pilots would like the Captain to have discretion to sit FA's and Mechanics in the C/P jumpseat (unknown to me if this is a TSA/FAA issue or airline specific)

To add insult to injury, there was no word from APA to APFA about their intentions before this pseudo-LOA hit the streets.. Its just nerv-ey....

Boo-hoo. They didn't ask me either, and I drop a couple of grand a year on them 😛 I wouldn't have put the letter out. I would have preferred the agreement be part of the total Section 6 contract

 

[AC AA LA FA]

You're right, it's a much better system right now for 8 hour DHD's back to base, where "Bitzi" is selected to run out of the aircraft as the agent opens the door and scam the best seats for her and her select group of FA buddies. Put the 35 year CA in the center coach seat 😀
Read the facts again. Any pilot would go there after any AA FA and after all C/P JS's all full. APA's proposal might actually help OA FA's get on a flight and therefore help getting/maintaining OA FA jumpseat agreements. See if you can put aside your rage and figure it out. As a side note, most pilots would like the Captain to have discretion to sit FA's and Mechanics in the C/P jumpseat (unknown to me if this is a TSA/FAA issue or airline specific)
Boo-hoo. They didn't ask me either, and I drop a couple of grand a year on them 😛 I wouldn't have put the letter out. I would have preferred the agreement be part of the total Section 6 contract

All this is moot as the CJS "belongs" to the flight attendants, it is contractual and will not and can not be given to the pilots or anybody else unless we are in Sec 6. The entire point is that APA played dirty, pitting one group against another. (In 03 we saw similar behavior regarding duty rigs) Its only to evident that APA is not in the drivers seat of in their negotiations. I hope us "Bitzis" fair better in 08.......

 

[FA Mikey]

You're right, it's a much better system right now for 8 hour DHD's back to base, where "Bitzi" is selected to run out of the aircraft as the agent opens the door and scam the best seats for her and her select group of FA buddies. Put the 35 year CA in the center coach seat 😀

So how is putting it in a contract any different? Now CAPT joe make sure he or she gets the best seat then the other FO's anything left thrown to whom ever.

They are really more concerned with the DH over. Where God forbid they should have to come in early to be put on the standby list like a common employees.

You bring up a DH back situation, waiving legalities to go home early. After you got a nice FC meal, FC seat plus the bunks. A 2 hour nap. Lets also be real, Almost always crews end up on aisle or window seats in the MC.

 

[Nor'Easta]

All this is moot as the CJS "belongs" to the flight attendants, it is contractual and will not and can not be given to the pilots or anybody else unless we are in Sec 6. The entire point is that APA played dirty, pitting one group against another. (In 03 we saw similar behavior regarding duty rigs) Its only to evident that APA is not in the drivers seat of in their negotiations. I hope us "Bitzis" fair better in 08.......

Yes, it is a contractual item.

30-LETTER-IV dated November 18, 1979

 

[ArtTang]

"You're right, it's a much better system right now for 8 hour DHD's back to base, where "Bitzi" is selected to run out of the aircraft as the agent opens the door and scam the best seats for her and her select group of FA buddies. Put the 35 year CA in the center coach seat."

The Miami base seems to have a lot of trip sequences that deadhead to/from cities such as London or Sao Paulo. It is always a big debate as to who should get to sit where. I would be 100% in favor of going down the NS (the crew list) in pure order of seniority. If the captain is the most senior, then s/he should get priority for the first class seat. However, if one of the flight attendants is senior, then s/her should get priority. This is the only fair way to go about it in order to avoid dividing the work groups. Besides, seniority should be honored (in my humble opinion) over rank and/or position flown on the aircraft.


"As a side note, most pilots would like the Captain to have discretion to sit FA's and Mechanics in the C/P jumpseat (unknown to me if this is a TSA/FAA issue or airline specific)."

This is a good question. I remember that my sister and all of her classmates received a cockpit pass ride when they went through flight attendant training at United Airlines, so I don't think it is a TSA/FAA mandate. She went through the training well before 9-11, so it may have changed. Does anyone know for sure if it is a company or FAA policy? I cannot speak for all the flight attendants, but I imagine the pilots' proposal would be more palatable if there were reciprocity by which flight attendants could ride on a (vacant) cockpit jumpseat just as the pilots would like to do in the cabin.

Peace,
Art Tang
IMA

 

[eolesen]

AA should have adopted seniority based accommodation a long time ago...

 

[MiAAmi]

This is Tommie Hutto-Blake, APFA President, with a Hotline update for Saturday, November 18, 2006. This hotline update will be a simple fact based message to all AA Flight Attendants regarding the collective bargaining history of the AA Flight Attendant cabin jumpseat.

In 1976 the American Airlines Flight Attendants were represented by the Transport Workers Union, Local 552. During active Section Six Bargaining, Appendix T dated May 4, 1976, was negotiated and ratified by the AA Flight Attendants during the course of this standard round of negotiations. Appendix T (page 155), in the 1976 AA/TWU, Local 552 Contract - for the first time contractually authorized an AA Flight Attendant to use any unoccupied cabin jumpseat for non-revenue travel. In 1979, the first APFA Contract, this contractual language became Appendix Q (page 229) of 1979 APFA Collective Bargaining Agreement. Today, after over thirty years of bargaining history, the language giving AA Flight Attendants the right to occupy a cabin jumpseat is in Article 30, Letter IV of the Current 2001 Basic Agreement, as modified in 2003 (page 316), which confirms non-revenue travel rights for currently qualified AA Flight Attendants.

This contractual language has also been codified in the Flight Attendant Manual. If you turn to General Policies and Guidelines, you will find Flight Attendant jumpseat language on page 1.6. I will read directly from this section of our Part One Manual: “Non-FAA minimum crew jumpseats may be occupied by currently qualified AA Flight Attendantsâ€￾ (the list shows only those with AA Flight Attendant qualifications, but for American Eagle qualified Flight Attendants). This manual section goes on to state: “Not authorized for cabin jumpseat travel at any timeâ€￾. The first workgroup listed among others is - AA pilots.

The AA pilots are currently in active section six bargaining. What they cannot bargain for are any items that are already owned by other workgroups. Though the use of our cabin jumpseats are clearly listed in APA’s November 16, 2006, proposal to management, this now public information will only produce ill will among two workgroups. As I have already told the leadership of APA on today’s date, we (APFA and APA) should continue to focus on common interest by standing together as members of organized labor protecting such items as our health and retirement benefits, urging management to do the right thing for all employees. I urge the leadership of APA to reconsider these types of positions.

It is critical that labor groups on our property stick together during this difficult time in our work environment. We certainly don’t need to take positions that disrespect the hard bargaining history of the AA Flight Attendants or any labor group. Let the record show APFA is asking APA to remove this item from their current proposal. We will post a formal letter written to both APA and management on the member’s portion of the APFA website early next week. We expect to receive formal responses from both parties to post as well.

Please have confidence that the AA Flight Attendant cabin jumpseat is ours, yours and mine. We negotiated this item long ago and it will remain a part of our current contract in the future.

I would like to make it clear that this is not a reciprocal agreement proposal, but an APA proposal to management seeking an agreement to use the Flight Attendant cabin jumpseat.

Without a doubt we are in challenging times both on and off our property. You can be confident that no labor group has the right to negotiate something that already belongs to another labor group.

Stay informed and ask all APFA members to do the same.

 

[TWU informer]

If you will PROTECT & DEFEND Charlies true profession, your craft and profession will be safe.

Remember:

"Back to the Basics" & "If we build it, they will come".

Except you High Speed and the rest of the cowardice gang promote and defend the "I am just lucky to have a job brother" philosophy in Tulsa.

What good is it for the line mechanic to step up and try to protect you when you will give away the farm without an ounce of fight within yourself?

Ken and the line mechanics are not a threat to your skill, but "without further ratification" Jim Little, and Company Suck Asses throughout Local 514, both officers and workers on the floor are the real threat that you should address.


There is no shame in fighting and losing, only shame in accepting the unacceptable without a fight.

 

[eolesen]

Do us all a favor and leave this one on topic.

You have plenty of other threads (both active and inactive) in which you present(ed) your case for new representation.

 

[TWU informer]

Do us all a favor and leave this one on topic.

You have plenty of other threads (both active and inactive) in which you present(ed) your case for new representation.

Everyone including yourself have hi-jacked my threads and argued other subjects. So do me a favor and practice what you preach!

Or are you one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" superior beings?

 

[exB717Flyer]

At America West (where I work) and I'm sure some other carriers the cabin jump seat is available to non-reving pilots if no FA wants it. It's a no-harm item. No airlines allow FAs to occupy the cockpit JS. I would have no problem with it but I don't think the FAA would ever approve of it.

 

[AAStew]

No airlines allow FAs to occupy the cockpit JS. I would have no problem with it but I don't think the FAA would ever approve of it.

That is wrong. Jet Blue allows their flight attendants to jumpseat in the cockpit. It is supposed to be a once a year item, but they don't keep track, so the f/a's take that jumpseat occasionally to accomodate other non-revs who would not be allowed to ride in the jumpseats.

 

[AAviator]

All this is moot as the CJS "belongs" to the flight attendants, it is contractual and will not and can not be given to the pilots or anybody else unless we are in Sec 6. The entire point is that APA played dirty, pitting one group against another. (In 03 we saw similar behavior regarding duty rigs) Its only to evident that APA is not in the drivers seat of in their negotiations. I hope us "Bitzis" fair better in 08.......

And no flight attendant better think of touching a pilots crew meal if he or she declines to eat it during a flight. The pilots bargained for that meal, and a flight attendant has no right to it even if its not going to be eaten!

AC AA LA FA, I really don't understand the angst. How is this any different from the late 1990's when the TWU bargained for, and got the right to occupy a cockpit jumpseat (pre 911) if it was unoccupied?

I also don't understand the motivations of THB to stir the pot either. As the hotline states, the APFA bargained for the right to occupy the CJS if it is unoccupied. The pilots are attempting to do the same and be the next group in line behind the F/A's for the seat. Nothing more. The TWU bargained for in section 6 and got the cockpit jumpseat even though it is "owned" by the pilots. Why the nonsense?

And the reference to Part One? What the hell is that about? Thats a manual that gets updated by the company with the FAA's approval. APFA doesn't have squat input on that, just like the APA doesn't have any input on their Part One when the mechanics got cockpit jumpseat.

 

[Flyboy4u]

And no flight attendant better think of touching a pilots crew meal if he or she declines to eat it during a flight. The pilots bargained for that meal, and a flight attendant has no right to it even if its not going to be eaten!

Since when is there ever been a pilots crew meal left that they haven't eaten? 😛