Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[James T. Kirk]

A letter was sent to O.V. Delle-Femine from TWU Local 514's fax machine at 4 p.m. December 22. There is a fax report to prove it. A letter was received by TWU President Sonny Hall from AMFA at 7 p.m. December 22. There is a fax report to prove that as well (feel free to email me at [email protected] if you want copies of those fax reports).

Looks like AMFA is scared of TWU's challenge so they are now trying to make it look like they made the challenge first.

There will only be one debate - on January 15 at the Renaissance Hotel. If you AMFA supporters are too chickenshit to stand up for yourselves then I guess Team TWU will have no one to talk to but themselves.

TWU is a union founded on democracy and unity. We don't need our union officials to talk for us. We are the ones affected by all this - why shouldn't we be the ones discussing it?

 

[Raptor]

From what I am hearing Sonny Hall will be sending a substitute as he is not in Aviation has never been in Aviation and knows nothing about Aviation, the substitute from what I am hearing is going to be Art Luby, the logical canidate would be Jim Little but as Jim Little is apparently dieing of cancer he is not able to debate at this time, I am looking forward to this debate between the AMFA representative Delle and the TWU representative Art Luby it should be a very interesting and fair debate.

 

[Raptor]

I have not found ANY of my fellow Mechanics who are interested in hearing 6 nobody Mechanics in a room lieing to each other, that would serve no purpose, the membership wants to hear what the people at the top have to say not what the people at the bottom who want to be at the top have to say, If I wanted to hear six mechanics three from each side debate each other, I can get that in my own shop any day of the week, why would I want to go somewhere else to see six nobodys lie to each other.
I for one will be going to only one debate the Delle vs Art Luby debate on Jan. 17th
that will be the debate worth our valueable time.

I do not think anyone will show up to see Mechanics lie back and forth to each other.

 

[James T. Kirk]

Raptor just proved my point. AMFA supporters are too scared to stand up for themselves.

 

[Raptor]

No I think I said that no one wants to hear six nobody Mechanics lieing to each other, I get that debate everyday in my own shop.
you are one of those nobody Mechanics that wants to be somebody and wants somone to listen to you, get much higher on the ladder and I will be interested in what you have to say, untill then you are just another nobody like me and nobody cares what we think, that is the hard cold facts of the matter.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU is a union founded on democracy and unity. We don't need our union officials to talk for us. We are the ones affected by all this - why shouldn't we be the ones discussing it?

"TWU is a union founded on democracy and unity."

Bit of a stretch isnt it. Democracy? When did we get the right to vote on those who have authority over our contract-the International and the ATD Director?
Unity? With nearly 8500 cards signed for AMFA and an AGW drive starting up thats a hollow statement.

"We don't need our union officials to talk for us. "

I agree, we dont need any more "without further ratification" from our officials.


"We are the ones affected by all this - why shouldn't we be the ones discussing it?"


Arent we doing that here?

 

[twuer]

From what I am hearing Sonny Hall will be sending a substitute as he is not in Aviation has never been in Aviation and knows nothing about Aviation, the substitute from what I am hearing is going to be Art Luby, the logical canidate would be Jim Little but as Jim Little is apparently dieing of cancer he is not able to debate at this time, I am looking forward to this debate between the AMFA representative Delle and the TWU representative Art Luby it should be a very interesting and fair debate.

Hey Raptor,

I guess you think that Delle is a genius when it comes to aviation?? Delle is in real estate. Duh!!!! And guess how many years he worked in aviation???? 2 or 3!!!! It's been since 1969. If you have any proof other wise feel free to post it, would ya' Raptor. His ticket was issed in 1959.

I would hate to see anyone go up against Art Luby!! Specifically, Delle refuses to debate Mr. Luby because he's sceeeered!!!!! Delle didn't even want Mr. Luby in the same room with him last time he was in Tulsa. TWU is willing to put our members up against the best AMFA has to offer. The question is, are they sceeeered too??????? I think so!

 

[Raptor]

Yes we are having a Mechanic vs Mechanic debate on this forum and we can do that from the comfort of our own homes, without taking time away from our families, why go to a room to listen to a bunch of nobody mechanics debate each other, if we are going to take time away from our families lets make it worth our while and go hear what the top dogs have to say to each other.

my prediction is that hundreds of Mechanics will show up to see the top dogs debate each other at the brady theater but only about 15 to 20 will show up to watch 6 mechanics debate each other, Kirt watch and see if I am not right on this one.

 

[Raptor]

I don't know if Delle is scared of Art Luby or not, I will say that Art is a Lawyer and debating is what lawyers do best, we will just have to wait and see wether Delle accepts the substitute before anyone comes to any conclusions about being afraid.

I do think that a debate between Delle and Art Luby would be something well worth watching and I am looking forward to it, both are very intelligent professional individuals.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hey Raptor,

I guess you think that Delle is a genius when it comes to aviation?? Delle is in real estate. Duh!!!! And guess how many years he worked in aviation???? 2 or 3!!!! It's been since 1969. If you have any proof other wise feel free to post it, would ya' Raptor. His ticket was issed in 1959.

I would hate to see anyone go up against Art Luby!! Specifically, Delle refuses to debate Mr. Luby because he's sceeeered!!!!! Delle didn't even want Mr. Luby in the same room with him last time he was in Tulsa. TWU is willing to put our members up against the best AMFA has to offer. The question is, are they sceeeered too??????? I think so!

Its pretty pathetic if the TWU has to go to somebody who was never even a member of the TWU in order to debate about how good it is to be in the TWU.

Do you mean to say that the TWU cant produce one officer from the ranks that they feel could successfully defend the TWUs track record!

You know they must be in bad shape if they have to hire a professional liar,lawyer to represent them.

Why would you hate to see anybody go up against Art Luby? It seems to me that whenever the TWU really needs a lawyer they hire somebody else. Examples include the TRO that the company got on Local 562 and the lawsuit that 562 filed against the International. Luby did not do either of them.


We had him do one case for us, it was a slam dunk but I guess that he did not want to embarrass the company and he blew getting the guy full back pay.

 

[Raptor]

I think Art Luby will do a fine job of representing the TWU, I don't see a problem with Delle and Art Luby debating, if he is the TWUs choice then who are we to complain about it, let's have us a debate.

 

[scorpian]

514 must think their the only local that matters. The Jan 17 debate was planned several weeks back not yesterday. Playing these silly games shows a real lack of professionalism not to mention the lack of consideration to our fellow brothers at the line stations that might want to attend. This debates important to all of our members not just the ones in Tulsa.

If Sonny doesnt want to show up and JIm (very understandably) isnt up to it then Gary Y should be the next in line.

 

[TWU informer]

After a small amount of investigating, we find the truth.

TWU has rented a room that only holds 250 folks, and yet are claiming that they want everyone who wants to participate to have that chance. They even invite every mechanic in the industry from other airlines.

In addition they have the room rented until 5:00 p.m., which is only one hour after the start time of so-called debate number two which is scheduled at 4:00 pm. According to the press release and notice, each chief spokesperson will have 10 minute opening statement, that will be 4:20 pm at conclusion. Then there will be a five minute rebuttal. That will take us to 4:30 pm. Then they claim questions will be answered for one hour. That is min. 5:30 p.m. and the hotel records show they have reserved the small 250 member capacity room until 5:00 p.m.

This is nothing more than a charade.

If they think 250 members is all that is interested in a real debate. Then they are either really stupid or just putting on a farce to avoid a real debate.

There is more information coming AMFA in the form of written response.

The TWU has truely placed us in a position of positive momentum.

On top of that we are now well over 8,500 cards signed, keep up the good work TEAM TWU, you are by far our best organizer.

Another interesting note: The TWU has scheduled the debate for January 15th of the year 2003. We would have to have a time machine to attend. Maybe they want to debate under pre-concessions and pre-"without further ratification" shafting so they stand a chance?

 

[TeamTWU]

The ground rules for the January 15 will be as follows:

1. TWU and AMFA will provide three-person teams for each of the times, with one person on each team serving as chief spokesperson;

2. After a coin flip to decide order, each chief spokesperson will make a 10-minute opening statement;

3. Following opening statements, there will be a 5-minute rebuttal from each team;

4. After rebuttals, the teams will answer questions from the floor for a period of one hour, with questions alternating from AMFA supporters and members of TEAM TWU. The questions will be directed by an impartial moderator;

5. The debate will be open to all mechanic and related members from any and all airlines, and also will be open to the media.

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Does this look familiar? Does this look like Delle and Mr. Luby? This forum is not a debate, this forum is a discussion, the debate is to come.

Have a great Holiday Season!

 

[TWU informer]

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A TIME MACHINE SO WE CAN ATTEND THE TWU DEBATE?

JANUARY 15th, 2003 is the date we need to travel.

Screen capture from twuatd website: