Amfa Vs. Twu

Checking it Out said:
scorpion, Can you explain what is wrong? see is some posts of events that have happened in the past! It seems to work well in Tulsa! Since 75% or better favor the TWU at this point and time!

The aggressive response by the members in putting out facts will continue to work! If all the locals would do this we would see a strong united front going into the next round of negotiations with AA!

A Thank You! needs to go out to all the members who have educated their fellow Brothers and Sisters about the pitfalls of Amfa! Keep up the great Job!
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scorpion, Can you explain what is wrong?

The fileing with the NMB is pretty self explanitory.

The aggressive response by the members in putting out facts will continue to work! If all the locals would do this we would see a strong united front going into the next round of negotiations with AA!


Your correct! This is why we had enough cards to file, (members putting out facts). As soon as the WITHOUT FURTHER RATIFICATION boys are booted out we will have a strong united front.


A Thank You! needs to go out to all the members who have educated their fellow Brothers and Sisters about the pitfalls of twu! Keep up the great Job!


Couldnt agree more cio
 
January 03, 2002
SUBCONTRACTING
When the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) and Northwest Airlines (NWA) reached a tentative agreement, one of the prouder points of the AMFA negotiating committee was the 38% subcontracting limit where we would finally have a grip on subcontracting. If NWA exceeded the subcontracting limit, there would be a penalty of 100% of the dollar amount of the excedent. AMFA leadership also stated many times that the previous International Association of Machinist and Aerospace Workers (IAM) agreement did nothing to stop the subcontracting of our work.
The subcontracting language in the previous IAM agreement is simple, all negotiated work as describe in article 2 (Scope of agreement) is our work to be performed by IAM Mechanics and related personnel, period. Nothing in the agreement allowed the Company to subcontract our work. Article 2(F) created a committee to review current subcontracted work. Its goal was to return work back to its IAM members without relinquishing, any right(s) of the Union to file a grievance. Article 2(F)a states:
“… to provide advice to management as to what work could be returned to Company premises to be performed by the Company’s IAM represented employees. …â€
NWA violated the IAM agreement on subcontracting issues. The IAM filed grievances when our work was subcontracted. There were arbitrations over the issue. The IAM won some and lost some, this did not deter the IAM in filing other subcontracting grievances.
When presenting an issue to an arbitrator, the many variables considered by the arbitrator in deciding the grievance include: profitability, overtime, laid off employees, cost of doing the work in-house, is it good business, and so on. One of the biggest factors is the arbitrator himself. Is he pro-labor or pro-business? It has been my experience that most arbitrators are self-employed, pro-business, and believe that the Company has the right to run their business as they see fit.
In the new AMFA agreement, article 2 is basically the same as the previous IAM agreement except for two major changes. Article 2 (F) created a committee to review current subcontracted work. The new language does not include the goal that would return work back to its AMFA members.
The other major change to article 2 is the addition of paragraph (F)3, which defines the allowable subcontracting limits for four separate categories: Airframe and Engine Component, Plant Maintenance, Facilities Maintenance and Ground Operations Cleaners.. Although each category has it’s own limits, I will address the Airframe and Engine Component category. Article 2(F)3,a,1,a states the following:
“Airframe, Engine and Component Subcontracting Outside Vendor Labor dollars (less labor from insourced work, not including insourced LMO labor) shall not exceed thirty-eight (38) percent of total labor dollars spent on Outside Vendor Labor plus in-house Labor.â€
Taking this language literally, you could assume that NWA could not subcontract more than 38% of our work, however, contractual language always intertwines with other parts of an agreement, as it does in this case. When you examine the language closely, article 2(F)3,b, defines “Outside Vendor Labor†and “In-house Labor†Our current subcontracting language is completely based on “total labor dollarsâ€. Labor costs at Repair Stations are generally lower than NWA. In fact Repair Stations like the new EADS Aeroframe Services’ facility in Lake Charles, LA, now performs maintenance on Airbus aircraft. Sonny Stern, sales director for EADS Aeroframe Services’ is quoted in the November, 2001 issue of Overhaul & Maintenance magazine that “the facility is earmarked to work on airplanes from the Americas†and blatantly states that it costs major U.S. airlines “roughly double what it costs us†for touch labor. “That’s the lureâ€. NWA generally subcontracts our work because they believe it can be done cheaper. If this is true, than theoretically, compared to the labor costs at NWA, the 38% Subcontracting limit may be more than just 38% of our work.
For example:
Assuming the total labor dollars spent by NWA on Outside Vendor Labor plus in-house Labor totaled one hundred dollars ($100.00), NWA would be allowed to subcontract $38.00 (38% of $100.00). Assume that the total labor cost per hour for one NWA technician is one dollar ($1.00). As stated by Sonny Stern, EADS Aeroframe Services’ (paraphrasing), the labor costs at the Lake Charles facility is half of what it is at major U.S. airlines. Using the above assumption, this would indicate that their total labor cost per hour is fifty-cents ($0.50). Therefore, for every dollar ($1.00) that NWA spends for a technician to perform one (1) hour of maintenance, a subcontractor, like EADS Aeroframe Services’, would be able to perform two (2) hours of the same work.
Assuming it is true that subcontracting facilities can perform maintenance at half the cost of U.S. major airlines, the example above indicates, that NWA would be allowed to subcontract 76% of our work and stay within the contractual limit of 38%, of the total labor dollars spent on Outside Vendor Labor plus in-house Labor. In addition, article 2(F)3,c, gives NWA numerous exceptions to the 38% subcontracting limit that “…shall not apply…â€.
If NWA subcontracted more than 38% of the total labor dollars, not including the exceptions, there would be a violation of article 2(F)3,d and I believe that AMFA would file a grievance.
“If the Company exceeds subcontracting limits, the Company will compensate the Association 100 percent of the dollar amount of the excedent.â€
In my opinion, NWA would exercise their right to present the facts to an arbitrator before paying a penalty. NWA would argue that the listed exceptions are not all-inclusive and therefore, would have the right to add additional exceptions. The statement “includes the following†located in Paragraph (F)3,c,1 will be at the center of attention. An arbitrator will decide if “includes the following†is an all-inclusive list of exceptions or not.
If AMFA is successful and the arbitrator rules in our favor, who wins? The monetary settlement does not go to our members that are laid off, it does not return our members back to work. The monetary settlement goes to the AMFA National (per national policy) and is distributed to the locals. So, who really wins? According to our national policy, the only real winners are the AMFA National and Locals.
The bottom line, like it or not, there is no limit on how much NWA can subcontract, there is only a penalty for anything subcontracted over the 38%. It would have been in our best interest if the negotiators had listened to some of the former representatives and negotiated language on a man-hour-to-man-hour scenario rather than dollar-to-dollar. A man-hour-to-man-hour scenario would have truly limited subcontracting and protected all of our jobs.
In the end, the new AMFA negotiated language hurts all of us. It allows NWA to subcontract our negotiated work, while our members are being laid off. On the other hand, the IAM subcontracting language, though not bullet proof, protected the membership and did not give any rights to NWA to subcontract our negotiated work.
Did the IAM win all the subcontracting grievances? No, but they did win when IAM members were laid off. Those members, not the union, received any monetary settlement. The injured party is the laid off member, not the Union! Think about it! Why should AMFA be entitled to a monetary settlement, if they represent us?
In closing, these are my personal opinions based on my experiences as a representative of more than 15 years. Be informed, read the agreements and then decide for yourself what language protects you and the membership.
Sincerely,
Larry Loftus
Northwest Airlines – Technician
 
scorpion said:
twuer why dont you pull something out of your archives to refute what Decision 2004 posts instead of proving him right all the time by just mouthing off and nothing more.
The past is something the twu hopes everyone will forget about.

WILL GETTEM NEXT TIME BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Let me give you an example of how Dave lies.

It seems that not too long ago he and some of his amfa buddies had brought up the subject of the amfa meeting that was suppose to take place at the Owasso High school. I noticed that he posted somthing about that above. I remember them saying that a TWU supporter had sent in a bomb threat and that was the reason that the meeting was cancelled. Now, forgive me, but I DID NOT see any mention of that in the letter that Dave posted. Dave tends to take things and run with them. THAT'S WHAT HE DOES!!!!!! Just the way he is running with this NMB, numbers thing. He is making this stuff up as he goes along and we all know it. If amfa had had enough cards to begin with regardless of the numbers on the list then there wouldn't have been an appeal for MORE TIME to get cards. DUH!!!! Can you not see that??? Dave has you guys so messed up that it is getting to the point of being an obsessive-compulsive thing with him! He can't stop!!

Dave's time is just about up. Delle will be done with him shortly and he will go back to being just a welder.
 
This is a quote from the above article link.
"Using the above assumption, this would indicate that their total labor cost per hour is fifty-cents ($0.50). Therefore, for every dollar ($1.00) that NWA spends for a technician to perform one (1) hour of maintenance, a subcontractor, like EADS Aeroframe Services’, would be able to perform two (2) hours of the same work."

This may be correct if that is the way the formula for the 38% read. The formula does no use total labor cost. The formula uses in house labor.
100 x 38% = 38
Now lets say you have a 25% farm out now that would only leave 75% in house now so;
(in house labor) 75 x 38% = 27.5
Now they are almost at there cap due to in house labor changing.
This is not a literal example, this is just to show how the numbers can change just because of the formula using in house labor
 
Checking it Out said:
Dave old news! Members aren't interested in this! Amfa's track record is speaking louder now!
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Speaking of track records, the mechanics pay vs CPI gives you a clear picture of the TWUs track record at AA for the last twenty years!
 
Checking it Out said:
The aggressive response by the members in putting out facts will continue to work! If all the locals would do this we would see a strong united front going into the next round of negotiations with AA!
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Your idea of a "strong united front" is scary. What are you hoping for minimum wage in 1 day of "negotiations"?


Tell us all about your plans for a union that will fight for the "right to work for less".


I think that we have had enough of this RTW thinking, corporate style democracy so called "union".
 
I think that we have had enough of this RTW thinking, corporate style democracy so called "union".
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Well Bob, isn't your brother Dave up on the RTW issues? Let's hear his opinion on this issue again. :blink:
 
Checking it Out said:
Dave old news! Members aren't interested in this! Amfa's track record is speaking louder now!
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The only thing the membership is interested in is replacing the twu. Not one soul that I know has changed their mind from the AMFA back to the twu. There is even more support for the AMFA after seeing just how blatant the company is trying to save their lap-dog union. How many employees did the company add to the list when the AA F/A's filed and "DUMPED" the twu?? It is DEFINETLY not in our best intrests to have a union that is in so deep with the company!! CONFLICT of INTREST to say the least!!

Keep the Faith........VOTE AMFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You're world is getting smaller! In the area I work, the members are dumping Amfa!

The track record speaks for itself!
 
Checking it Out said:
You're world is getting smaller! In the area I work, the members are dumping Amfa!

The track record speaks for itself!
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cio, you mean down at the 'Good olé boy hall' is that where you have em turning. LMAO Truth is most of the membership has always known the twu sucks and just put up with it. Now the twu is out on it's ass. Funny how things have evolved over the year though. The twu now sends out tons of email, a first since the amfa drive, all claiming to be supportive of our craft and class. Why the change of heart after all these years cio??? Could it be twu officers are now afraid of losing their officers pay and having to go back to the box or is it just something in the air???
 
yea rusty thats it "something special in the air" twu- americans real strength, but not for much longer! :D AMERICAN AIRLINES, AMFA'S 9TH REPRESENTED CARRIER ................... :up: :up: :up:
 
twuer said:
scorpion said:
twuer why dont you pull something out of your archives to refute what Decision 2004 posts instead of proving him right all the time by just mouthing off and nothing more.
The past is something the twu hopes everyone will forget about.

WILL GETTEM NEXT TIME BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Let me give you an example of how Dave lies.

It seems that not too long ago he and some of his amfa buddies had brought up the subject of the amfa meeting that was suppose to take place at the Owasso High school. I noticed that he posted somthing about that above. I remember them saying that a TWU supporter had sent in a bomb threat and that was the reason that the meeting was cancelled. Now, forgive me, but I DID NOT see any mention of that in the letter that Dave posted. Dave tends to take things and run with them. THAT'S WHAT HE DOES!!!!!! Just the way he is running with this NMB, numbers thing. He is making this stuff up as he goes along and we all know it. If amfa had had enough cards to begin with regardless of the numbers on the list then there wouldn't have been an appeal for MORE TIME to get cards. DUH!!!! Can you not see that??? Dave has you guys so messed up that it is getting to the point of being an obsessive-compulsive thing with him! He can't stop!!

Dave's time is just about up. Delle will be done with him shortly and he will go back to being just a welder.
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Well twuer, I have personally seen the companies distorted and inflated list, in depth.
Could you believe that William Cade is on the list, the Manager of Maintenance in MIA?
This is what you twuer's call fair play, right? You agree with 'ol Bill the AA manager being part of your twu? Is he paying dues? We now know why the twu is called the "company union"! You can hide behind your alias and call AMFA people liars, but will you call us liars without the alias? I guess we'll never know, because of your cowardice.

The company DID NOT follow the NMB rules whatsoever. Therefore until they do, AMFA should be allowed to submit any cards they receive until company compliance. The more, the better, someone took the time to sign it, then count it. The filing at the NMB was done with the knowlege that we are dealing with big corrupt AA, and its lapdog, the twu, and of course the imfamous NMB itself. The organizers PLANNED on this inflation, with enough cards to cover it, or I we would not have filed. I know its hard to understand for you twu believers, but 9000 plus of your own "twuer's" signed cards! Does this tell you anything? :unsure:


It took 20 years, but the twu is DONE!!!!
 
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