Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[TWU informer]

What is really insteresting and hilarious is the TWU trying to claim we didn't notify them until tomorrow. And yet, they now claim that their own internet posted debate invitation, which came from MCI Local 530 not Tulsa Local 514, has merit and it is the real deal. Truth is MCI "jumped the gun" and exposed your plan. Thank You mojo13, we owe you one!

When will the stooges of the TWU start holding their current bargaining agent to the same standard they wish to hold AMFA?

OH NO NOT ACCOUNTABLITIY!!!

 

[twuer]

From Bob,
Why is it that when we ask questions you guys abandon the thread? But what else should we expect from the TWU/ATD?


Oh please, I just answered you and you cried about it. What's the point Bob??? You don't debate, you hassle and complain that we don't give you exactly what you want to hear. You ramble on and on and on and on and on but don't get a thing accomplished. Why do you do that by the way??  AMFA is no good Bob. And the facts are clear. You just refuse to look at them.

If you have the "facts" why dont you share them with us?

Oh and by the way I recieved an E-mail from a UAL mechanic today who said that our drive is going just like theirs did. Well thats good news because we know how theirs turned out.

TWUer, whats wrong with the idea of all the mechanics in one union?

Bob,

I have been over and over "facts" but you refuse to hear them. I purposely stayed away from these boards a few months back for that very reason. There is no need for me to provide things that you refuse to pay attention to. You guys feel threatened and the names and accusations start flying. Nobody wants to put up with that bull. Now all of a sudden you want me to give more facts. I get my "facts" to the guys on the floor. Most of them are so pissed off that AMFA is trying to invade AA it's a shame really. I am anxiously awaiting these debates at the Renaissance. For once and for all the truth will come out. Hang on (AMFA) boys. . .it's gonna be a bumpy ride!!

 

[TWU informer]

twuer,

One FACT that you refuse to hear and see is that AMFA isn't raiding or invading the TWU/AA bedwetting, the TWU Members and AA Mechanics are conducting this campaign and have been for over 5 years now.

It is strange that you say we are invading AA not the TWU. Is the the company and the union the same thing in your mind? I thougt so.

 

[TWU informer]

Gee, TWU informer. Your kinda thin skinned aren't you.

Grrrrrrrrr

Not really thin skinned, just tiring of the twisted lies and spins of the industrial union fear mongers.

What is their solution to our future?

If they claim they saved 10,000 jobs in exchange for concessions, then how many jobs will they sacrifice in 2008 to get our pay and benefits back? Or is the company just going to roll over and pay us top and NOT outsource the work at levels other carriers are outsourcing that pay top pay/benefits?

What makes you trust them that they are going to get all of the pay and benefits back and still keep all heavy overhaul?

Pipe Dream I tell you, Pipe Dream.

It appears to be one or the other, but not both. Where do stand and who do you trust?

I trust the idea of ALL Mechanics in one union banding together instead of with bus drivers, fleet service clerks, and stock clerks. That's my opinion and it ain't changing.

Do you think the TWU could go to a PEB Hearing and argue top pay and benefits plus massive heavy overhual when the rest of the industry would be placed at a competetive advantage? Look at your future, not just live for today.

I'm ashamed to be around the TWU, and even more ashamed to work for the largest carrier destroying the industry pay and benefit standard based on a future pipe dream that will NEVER transpire.

 

[scorpian]

cio
glad to see you've came out of hiding. I ask you a question on the topic QUESTION CONVENIENCE US and you disappeared. I thought maybe one of your side kicks twuer or team twu would have stepped up to the plate for you and answered the question but all twuer could respond to is to ask Hackman what GOO GOBBLING meant.

You got it wrong about desperation. Desperation is trying to avoid a situation where all the membership can fit into one venue at the same time. This isnt just local 514's debate. We'll have membership arriving from all over the AA system to witness this. To try and derail it by holding it during the week and in a conference room where max seating is probably 65 people is a little inconsiderate to the membership to say the least. Is this the twu's way of saying their not ready for a true debate?

If your being honest with yourself and the rest of the membership that read this forum about the failures of the past meetings in Tulsa then whats wrong with showing up on a weekened in an arena thats big enough for all the mechanic and related to fit in and get it on? Kick some A in front of all of us. The way you talk it should be a cake walk.

p.s. your right this is a clear sign of desperation and the membership expected some form of stunt by the twu to get out of it. Were you sweating when posted that last thread because you almost spelled perspiration when you tryed to spell desperation?

 

[TWU informer]

I believe if the upcoming debates go anything like this bulletin board debate, the TWU is in for a good ol'e OKIE Ass Kicking.

 

[twuer]

cio
glad to see you've came out of hiding. I ask you a question on the topic QUESTION CONVENIENCE US and you disappeared. I thought maybe one of your side kicks twuer or team twu would have stepped up to the plate for you and answered the question but all twuer could respond to is to ask Hackman what GOO GOBBLING meant.

You got it wrong about desperation. Desperation is trying to avoid a situation where all the membership can fit into one venue at the same time. This isnt just local 514's debate. We'll have membership arriving from all over the AA system to witness this. To try and derail it by holding it during the week and in a conference room where max seating is probably 65 people is a little inconsiderate to the membership to say the least. Is this the twu's way of saying their not ready for a true debate?

If your being honest with yourself and the rest of the membership that read this forum about the failures of the past meetings in Tulsa then whats wrong with showing up on a weekened in an arena thats big enough for all the mechanic and related to fit in and get it on? Kick some A in front of all of us. The way you talk it should be a cake walk.

p.s. your right this is a clear sign of desperation and the membership expected some form of stunt by the twu to get out of it. Were you sweating when posted that last thread because you almost spelled perspiration when you tryed to spell desperation?

but all twuer could respond to is to ask Hackman what GOO GOBBLING meant.

Sorry scorpian, you got the wrong guy!! You AMFA guys can't even get the small stuff right!!

 

[TWU informer]

Sorry scorpian, you got the wrong guy!! You AMFA guys can't even get the small stuff right!!

Dude, did you happen to notice the post by CIO regarding dates on the debate invitation?

Talk about missing simple, small, and obviuos details?

He ran and hid out under that bed on that one, didn't he?

I think you and CIO live in the same house, go look under the bed and tell him to grow a set, will ya?

 

[twuer]

twuer,

One FACT that you refuse to hear and see is that AMFA isn't raiding or invading the TWU/AA bedwetting, the TWU Members and AA Mechanics are conducting this campaign and have been for over 5 years now.

It is strange that you say we are invading AA not the TWU. Is the the company and the union the same thing in your mind? I thougt so.

TWU Members and AA Mechanics are conducting this campaign and have been for over 5 years now.

5 years?? Not doing a very good job at it.

Then why has Delle asked for a debate now? I can tell you why. . .because he is taking advantage of a vulnerable situation, that's why.

Hey Informer, has Delle asked you to sit on the panel yet? :wub:

 

[scorpian]

twuer
I stand corrected it was team twu that wanted to know what GOO GOBBLING meant. I guess you were allready knowledgeable in the term!! See that wasnt so hard you guys can step up to the plate for each other. Just take baby steps like that and before you know it you'll be spinning for each other.

 

[Bob Owens]

[Bob,

I have been over and over "facts" but you refuse to hear them. I purposely stayed away from these boards a few months back for that very reason. There is no need for me to provide things that you refuse to pay attention to. You guys feel threatened and the names and accusations start flying. Nobody wants to put up with that bull. Now all of a sudden you want me to give more facts. I get my "facts" to the guys on the floor. Most of them are so pissed off that AMFA is trying to invade AA it's a shame really. I am anxiously awaiting these debates at the Renaissance. For once and for all the truth will come out. Hang on (AMFA) boys. . .it's gonna be a bumpy ride!!

Well like I said I must have missed them. Where and when did you present facts?

What is wrong with the idea of all mechanics in one union?


By the way, since your debate is scheduled during the week , during regular working hours are you going to arrange for the AMFA guys to get UB like the TWU guys?

 

[TeamTWU]

One thing for sure Bob, if you're on the panel it won't go through lunch. 5 years of what? When you fail at AA will you go find another airline having difficulties or in the middle of a contract negotiating effort?

You want one union for mechanics Bob? No problem, TWU welcomes them all, open the door for them Bob, help out a brother.

 

[twuer]

[Bob,

I have been over and over "facts" but you refuse to hear them. I purposely stayed away from these boards a few months back for that very reason. There is no need for me to provide things that you refuse to pay attention to. You guys feel threatened and the names and accusations start flying. Nobody wants to put up with that bull. Now all of a sudden you want me to give more facts. I get my "facts" to the guys on the floor. Most of them are so pissed off that AMFA is trying to invade AA it's a shame really. I am anxiously awaiting these debates at the Renaissance. For once and for all the truth will come out. Hang on (AMFA) boys. . .it's gonna be a bumpy ride!!

Well like I said I must have missed them. Where and when did you present facts?

What is wrong with the idea of all mechanics in one union?


By the way, since your debate is scheduled during the week , during regular working hours are you going to arrange for the AMFA guys to get UB like the TWU guys?

By the way, since your debate is scheduled during the week , during regular working hours are you going to arrange for the AMFA guys to get UB like the TWU guys?

Sorry Bob, but I don't have the power to pay anyone. Maybe if the AMFA guys paid union dues to begin with they could get something worked out.

Do you actually think that AMFA is just mechanics? Maybe you should take another look at the RLA. It defines what the craft and class is. To say that AMFA is a craft union is a mis-statement because the law by the meer nature of the RLA requires that you represent more than just mechanics. That's just another empty promise you are making to these guys you are approaching. Why can't you guys ever tell the WHOLE truth? Shoot, why can't you tell the truth at all??

 

[Oldweirdharold]

One thing for sure Bob, if you're on the panel it won't go through lunch. 5 years of what? When you fail at AA will you go find another airline having difficulties or in the middle of a contract negotiating effort?

You want one union for mechanics Bob? No problem, TWU welcomes them all, open the door for them Bob, help out a brother.


Again more personal attacks coupled with totally useless blather by an obvious shill for the company toy union, now go look up the definition for ''Shill'

The real issue here gentlemen is what has this service organization been doing and will you follow with blind allegiance mouthing slogans or will you demand answers and accountability... The facts are during this industry downturn and events of 9/11 many for the first time saw just how the representatives functioned under adverse conditions and how the organization is structured, effectively rendering the membership powerless.

One airline in particular used this time to violate the agreements and lay people off not once but three times, and what can any union do? they must pursue a grievance procedure and that takes time.. Why then would twu blame AMFA while telling outright lies as to the pertinent facts here, this particular lie will come back to haunt you when it finally reaches arbitration gentlemen... Another lie perpetuated by twu has to do with raiding when in fact twu did the same thing they accuse AMFA of now back in 1946, but in fact people wishing change representation are free to do so, is this not democratic??

One of the oldest lies twu told grounded in fear stated that ''If you vote in another union you will be without a contract for a year before you can negotiate'', remember that one?? The bottom line here is that you've lied too many times for too many years to be taken seriously ... Service organizations such as yours are responsible to maintain a standard and work towards improvement for those you represent , please reference your own twu constitution to see what I'm talking about.

In closing please ponder why we cling to an instituition that has changed little over the past 50 years except to consolidate power at the top while the world has moved forward, I''ve grown weary asking you to defend your position because it's clear to all you have nothing to stand on and nothing to show us save tired slogans and generalizations and your ever popular personal attacks.. I've copied all your weak replies to valid questions and this has generated more support for AMFA than you can imagine.. Perhaps some day you'll find something called integrity that will enable you to be honest instead of aligning yourselves with an obviously flawed outdated model...My prayer is that this year we heal come together and grow into that which is a model of professionalism, strength and integrity, all mechanics and related that's the model I want, that's real stregth in numbers..

Have a great holiday boys and girls, God Bless One And All

Jim Anderson Tulsa 4D

 

[mojo13]

Ok it's official;
What: TWU/AMFA Debate

When: Noon and 4 p.m. January 15

Where: Renaissance Tulsa Hotel and Convention Center; 6808 South 107th East Avenue, Tulsa

Check the ATD site

http://twuatd.org/default.asp?id=93&ACT=5&...tent=283&mnu=93