Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[Bob Owens]

Buck, maybe they have taken in account the % of membership that shows an interest in any union activity. I admit sir, I am one of them. If it was not for a fellow mechanic asking me to visit this website I would be no more involved than the next guy. My friend is an avid AMFA advocate, though we agree to disagree.

Good thought. How will AMFA go about raising the union participation? My steward seems to be up on all the issues as I am not, though I am way to busy with daily life, e.g. kids, farm, job, to actively participate. I have to , and do, place my trust in my locally elected officials. Am I wrong for doing this and if so how will AMFA's name change this? Thank you all.

Good thought. How will AMFA go about raising the union participation?


Define what you mean by "participation". I often hear that we need more of 'it" but "it" has never been clearly defined. There is a reason for this, nobody knows exactly what "participation " is but it makes a good place to stick the blame. If your union, TWU, IAM AMFA or whoever was representing you asked you to participate in something specific and explained to you why it was important would be likely to "participate"? Even if it meant altering some other committment? My guess is yes. Yes for you and most others. If that is the case then what exactly is the problem?

My steward seems to be up on all the issues as I am not, though I am way to busy with daily life, e.g. kids, farm, job, to actively participate. I have to , and do, place my trust in my locally elected officials. Am I wrong for doing this and if so how will AMFA's name change this? Thank you all.

Yes. Because those you trust purposely withhold information from you. You are responsible to seek out the truth. Local 562 had requested on several occasions to be allowed to meet your coworkers so we could share with them the difficulties we face. Your Local has always denied this.

The fact is that AA generates most of its money out of high cost areas of the country. Its the money that is generated here that keeps the base open there. So no matter what there will be employees at these high cost locations. Consideration for the high costs of living in these areas should be given. Even most non-union companies make such allowances. However the majority of our class and craft live in low cost areas such as Tulsa and MCI. Your leaders oppose allowing us any consideration for the high costs of where we live and demand that we live on what they feel is acceptable where they live. With the fact that they have the majority vote through roll call they effectively vote in your behalf. And your vote says that despite the fact that things cost us much more, that we have to agree to live under a wage that you, again with your majority status, determine is acceptable where you live.

Your leaders are wrong for not at least allowing us to share our perspective with you. We work for the same company, are in the same union and work under the same contract. If we are supposed to be United as your leaders are always calling for it can not always be at our expense while your leaders throw their weight around and basically turn a cold sholder to our conditions. Approximately 90% of the line station aircraft mechanics have signed cards for AMFA. This number includes those sent in by laid off mechanics who feel that we must change unions. This is by no means something new, something that poped up because of the latest concessionary deal that your leaders have brought back. This has been going on for years. Your leaders have been lying to you, using fear to get you to agree to concesionary contracts year after year.

We have no objection to working for exactly the same wage as you, as long as that wage supports a reasonable living standard here. If it can do that here, then it will do much better there. We are willing to fight to get that, but contract after contract the "leaders" at the bases use fear tactics (as directed by the International) to get you guys with your majority vote to accept concessionary contracts without a fight. For us its extremely fustrating.

You mentioned earlier about participation. Has this union, local or International, ever said to you guys that the offer from the company is unacceptable and should be rejected? Or have they said "Its the best you are going to get, take it or you might lose your job"? If it was the later, then how can they blame the membership for our decline? How can they blame us for not supporting them if we did what they said to do?

The hope is that by changing the whole organization, an organization that has demonstrated that it is willing to fight, that we can change this pattern of concessionary bargaining followed by the union blaming the members. Under the current organization the members can not get rid of leaders like Hall and Little. Under these conditions they can do what suits them best and lie and say that they are doing what is best for us. And there is nothing we can do about it.

Under AMFA if a leader ever came back with a concessionary deal and misled us into accepting it we could hold him accountable.

In the TWU the International owns the contract, not the locals and not the members. It is my belief that the International has used their ownership of the contract and the fact that the membership can not hold them easily accountable to use us to expand the membership of the TWU through pay cuts and concessions. My suspicion is fueled by the fact that AMR has accepted the minimum showing of interest and recognized the TWU as the bargaining agent for other groups of AMR workers, and that the AA TWU/ATD has nearly tripled in size over the last twenty years while our pay and benifits have led the industry in decline.

The fact is the TWUs record is unacceptable. Change from within is unlikely, at least as far as meaningful change that could alter our direction. AMFA, with its accountability, Democracy and most important of all, goal of uniting all the mechanics in one union offers us hope.

After 20 years of decline, the refusal of the TWU to even admit that they have and are leading us the wrong way can not offer us any hope. The fact that they defend their record, policies and structure means that they will continue on this path, and continue to blame us for the results.

Dont you find it a little strange that your trusted officials are eager to tell you of the financial difficulties of the company but will not allow your brothers and sisters that live in high cost areas of the country tell you how the concessions will cause finincial difficulties for them?

 

[Buck]

Buck, maybe they have taken in account the % of membership that shows an interest in any union activity. I admit sir, I am one of them. If it was not for a fellow mechanic asking me to visit this website I would be no more involved than the next guy. My friend is an avid AMFA advocate, though we agree to disagree.

Good thought. How will AMFA go about raising the union participation? My steward seems to be up on all the issues as I am not, though I am way to busy with daily life, e.g. kids, farm, job, to actively participate. I have to , and do, place my trust in my locally elected officials. Am I wrong for doing this and if so how will AMFA's name change this? Thank you all.

Why would the membership only show a nominal interest in their union?

And what is it that you disagree about?

Are you completely unwilling to consider that there may be another avenue for your profession?

Why is it that you expect AMFA to raise the interest of the membership?

It should be the membership that advocates their profession. What is our profession about. What can we as members do to ensure that we are acknowledged by the public and our employer as professionals and treated as such.

What issues are you concerned about in your profession?

You state that you are busy with your daily life etc.. i.e. family, that is what it is about, bettering your profession to better the way you can look out for your family.

There is nothing wrong with placing your trust in your locally elected officials.
However do you know any more about your union or the structure of that union? Have you read the Constitution for the TWU and or for AMFA?

There is much more than changing the name of the union. There are philosophically differences in the organizations.

Why do you advocate the TWU?

 

[Calvin]

Good morning guys, chores are done and here I sit. An advocate of TWU? I do not see myself as an advocate of anything. Because I believe locally all is being accomplished currently that is able does not make me an advocate. I would be a lousy advocate for anybody, believe me.

Bob, you bring up a good discussion scenerio with the cost of living being so extreme on both coast, east and west. And here I sit in the middle. I do not know if there is an answer to this dilema. Are you entitled to more per hour because of your zip code? That's a tough bone to pick there, every insurance rate is figured from zip code for sure, people like me living in Mayberry, USA without a doubt pay less for all expenses due to our location. I personally believe you living in NY, if that is where you live I think it is, should be paid a "combat pay". Little farm humor there. I for one would not care if you made more sir, fact is I would probably vote for it if asked, I do not see how it would negatively impact me and I'm all for helping out others if possible. If I was wanting the extra money I would move to a coast I guess.

You ask why I would expect AMFA to raise the interest of the membership. Actually I would expect AMFA to fix every single line item issue and local issue that they, the advocates, are saying is wrong with the TWU currently. I realize it is frustration from events that fuels the fire here, I too am frustrated, but thankful in the same breath. Perhaps it is my slow and determined life style, not sure, but I awaken every morning before dawn, pet the dogs and tend to chores, regardless of the cost of insurance or the fact that I took a cut in pay. My family depends on me to keep our home stable, so far I am doing so. They also know times could get rougher and they are prepared, as I , to keep our home ours at what ever cost.

The only reason I guess I expect anything from AMFA if elcted is due to AMFA soliciting in the manner it has, pointing out each and every downfall of my current union. Around these parts you need to back up what you preach or be prepared to , in this case, fix all. If AMFA is going to give me the same as my current union then I see no use in ruining the rapport already established by my union representatives. I see AMFA as a "clean slate", just getting ready to be written on. The TWU has been written on as AMFA points out, but the membership is going to use the same chalk with AMFA.

Hope this makes sense. Thank you.

 

[Buck]

Calvin, who is AMFA?

Once you determine that, you expect them to fix twenty years of concessions? What would be your time frame for this task?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Calvin, you are correct that AMFA points out the twu's faults. These are the SAME faults people like Bob Owens, Chuck Schalk and others pointed out to the twu when the twu asked us to, "Change from within." The only problem is that the twu never planned on changing from within. So now they will be changed, (removed), from the outside.
When AMFA is voted to represent AA AMTs we will be using different chalk. The twu uses invisible chalk and at times only chalk that the international uses. AMFA brings democracy and accountability. There is nothing Earth shattering about AMFA because they believe in the membership running the union. The twu NEVER understood this and will now be a sad chapter in the airline's history.
As you state, "
I awaken every morning before dawn, pet the dogs and tend to chores, regardless of the cost of insurance or the fact that I took a cut in pay. My family depends on me to keep our home stable, so far I am doing so. They also know times could get rougher and they are prepared, as I , to keep our home ours at what ever cost.", this is exactly what every AMT at AA does and wants to do. Regardless if one lives on the Coast or in the "middle". The twu has counted on dividing our work group. It is time that we take the next step forward together. Because the Line needs Overhaul, and Overhaul needs the Line.
Happy Holidays to you and your family.

 

[Calvin]

I fully understand that AMFA or any other union is not going to correct what is wrong with our union status overnight. I believe though that several issues guide us in strengthening our position.

• That American Airlines and other major airlines adapt to the operating ways of the "discount airlines". I do not see the TWU or our membership fully responsible for the condition of the company. If in fact, as others have stated, the company has overstated our financial woes and cleverly hid items from the members it sought concessions from, that we find them , the company responsible in court.
• That after this union issue is completed, meaning a vote or no vote, that we either retain TWU or AMFA takes over, that we may go forward and run our union, locally, without attempting to assign guilt and fault as we do now. However, after reading here I see that a definate issue will remain with either party afterwards.

You stated that Mr Owens and Mr Shalk attempted to change from within. Was this from within their local? Why would I as a union member in MCIE care about what went on in TX? My concern is here locally, not really what Mr Owens pays for mortagage or rent. He does have a valid concern there I believe.I realize I am limited on what I have read but just what is it they attempted to change? Was it their issues? All I have read is what is posted so realize I mean no bad feelings here, just curious as to what they will change with AMFA, and is it self-serving. I have just recently gone over both constitutions, pretty much the same as the rest I have read in the past, out of the same mold I think. Thank you.

 

[twuer]

Good morning guys, chores are done and here I sit. An advocate of TWU? I do not see myself as an advocate of anything. Because I believe locally all is being accomplished currently that is able does not make me an advocate. I would be a lousy advocate for anybody, believe me.

Bob, you bring up a good discussion scenerio with the cost of living being so extreme on both coast, east and west. And here I sit in the middle. I do not know if there is an answer to this dilema. Are you entitled to more per hour because of your zip code? That's a tough bone to pick there, every insurance rate is figured from zip code for sure, people like me living in Mayberry, USA without a doubt pay less for all expenses due to our location. I personally believe you living in NY, if that is where you live I think it is, should be paid a "combat pay". Little farm humor there. I for one would not care if you made more sir, fact is I would probably vote for it if asked, I do not see how it would negatively impact me and I'm all for helping out others if possible. If I was wanting the extra money I would move to a coast I guess.

You ask why I would expect AMFA to raise the interest of the membership. Actually I would expect AMFA to fix every single line item issue and local issue that they, the advocates, are saying is wrong with the TWU currently. I realize it is frustration from events that fuels the fire here, I too am frustrated, but thankful in the same breath. Perhaps it is my slow and determined life style, not sure, but I awaken every morning before dawn, pet the dogs and tend to chores, regardless of the cost of insurance or the fact that I took a cut in pay. My family depends on me to keep our home stable, so far I am doing so. They also know times could get rougher and they are prepared, as I , to keep our home ours at what ever cost.

The only reason I guess I expect anything from AMFA if elcted is due to AMFA soliciting in the manner it has, pointing out each and every downfall of my current union. Around these parts you need to back up what you preach or be prepared to , in this case, fix all. If AMFA is going to give me the same as my current union then I see no use in ruining the rapport already established by my union representatives. I see AMFA as a "clean slate", just getting ready to be written on. The TWU has been written on as AMFA points out, but the membership is going to use the same chalk with AMFA.

Hope this makes sense. Thank you.

Welcome Calvin,

It's not easy being the "new" guy is it??? The AMFA boys are on the defensive and will probably eat their off spring (just a joke boys!!) to promote AMFA. I know there is a lot of conflicting things here but I just wanted to take this oppurtunity to clear up just a couple of them.

Actually I would expect AMFA to fix every single line item issue and local issue that they, the advocates, are saying is wrong with the TWU currently.
The only reason I guess I expect anything from AMFA if elcted is due to AMFA soliciting in the manner it has, pointing out each and every downfall of my current union.

You have every right to expect that from AMFA because that's what they promise but the fact is that they will never be able to produce it. AMFA has high out-sourcing numbers and high lay-off numbers, all which hurt the working union man and woman. That's what they are famous for. They gripe and gripe about the TWU but fail to tell you even half of the things that AMFA does.

Let me help them out a bit. But fair warning to you, get ready for the spin of a lifetime!! Where do I begin. . .let's start with their beloved leader, O.V. Delle-Femine. The AMFA boys claim that the leaders of the TWU are in it only for the money. What they fail to tell you is that Delle makes approx $180,000 per year and represents about 23,000. Whereas the TWU represents over 150,000. AMFA also uses The McCormick Group. (a management group) who negotiates their contracts. The are NOT voted on by the members and CANNOT be directly recalled. They get paid on the basis of the number of members, which is approx $800,000. If they get in at AA they will get somewhere in the range of $1.5 MILLION. (the AMFA boys aren't the only ones who do their homework!!) Speaking of Delle, the AMFA boys think he is the best thing since sliced bread! That he knows all the ins and outs of the aviation industry enough to lead a union of mechanics. Well, Delle worked in the aviation business for maybe 7 years and has not held a certificate since around 1966. He has been in real estate for many, many years. Now, I'm willing to bet that that is something the FORGOT to tell you! How convenient of them huh??! The last thing I will mention is all this talk about AMFA getting the mechanics in one union. To quote Bob . . .
What is wrong with ALL the Mechanics trying to get into ONE UNION?
I'll tell you what the problem is but first let me ask this question. What will become of the rest of what the National Mediation Board (NMB) determines to be the craft and class? The NMB decides by law who AMFA will and will not represent. They have ruled (at AA) that Titles I, II and IV fall under craft and class of maintenance and related. Point being, for AMFA to claim they are a "craft union" is simply inaccurate.

I do appreciate one of the first posts you had about what it is we are fighting to keep and then also what we are fighting to KEEP OUT!! Keep your posts coming. Good job partner! I think you are getting under their skin!!

Feel free to email me if you have any questions or to get the full story. Just click on my screen name and follow the options.

 

[Calvin]

twuer, nice to meet you sir. I really do not mean to get under anyone's skin here. I am not a fast person either, I move slow, I think slow, but I do make progress in my learning. My kids are helping me in my research here,LOL. It is a good experience for them also, we're learning together. My daughter picked the holiday avitar, lol.

 

[Bob Owens]

"AMFA has high out-sourcing numbers and high lay-off numbers, all which hurt the working union man and woman. That's what they are famous for. They gripe and gripe about the TWU but fail to tell you even half of the things that AMFA does."


A more accurate statement might be that those airlines where AMFA is has high outsourcing rates.

But then again so does AA and thats not even counting the "in house" outsourcing from maint of jobs that are traditionaly maint jobs.

The fact is that at those airlines most of the outsourcing was taking place prior to AMFA coming on the property, but you just happened to leave that out.

As Calvin, and most people with common sense are aware, change takes time. We have given the TWU time, however the change has not come. This latest concessionary deal is not a single event that has turned over 53% of its members against the TWU, but rather the worst of a twenty year record of industry leading concessions. It is simply the straw that broke the camels back.

Unlike at TWA and other carriers, these concessions were given to the healthiest company in the industry, they were not given out of need but for greed. Greed on the part of the company and greed on the part of union officials who since they could not raid to expand their dues base simply undercut all other union workers in the industry. The fact is that the TWU has taken more members from the IAM and other unions than AMFA. And the fact is that for most of those workers it meant less benifits and usually less pay also-TWA being the exception.

The TWA workers, despite the fact that their company had been struggling for years still had better work rules and benifits while they were TWA than they do now. The only real plus they got was a bump in pay, and in reality it was AMFA that established that as the going rate over at NWA. AA and the TWU had to match NWA or face revolt on the line.

We can really only make fair judgements based upon contracts that AMFA has negotiated and see whether those contracts were improvements or were they concessionary.

I recall a little airline called OZARK. They used to rent gates off AA at LGA. This was back in the 80s. We got a hold of a copy of their contract. It surpassed ours by a considerable margin. These guys in this tiny airline made more than us, had more vacation than us and obviously had a better successorship clause than most people.

As far as NWA, AMFA has only gone though one negotiations cycle. At the time wages were the priority because the TWU and IAM, who represented most of the industry had put in concessionary contracts that lagged inflation by a wide margin for nearly 20 years. AMFA was trying to fix the whole contract in one shot, but President Bush interfered on behalf of the company. In their efforts to undo what the IAM had done, AMFA went all the way to a PEB, something the TWU has not done here at AA since 1969. Despite government interference this small stand alone union was successful in bringing the wage from around $25/hr to over $35/hr. Prior to AMFA coming in the IAM was only able to bring back $29/hr.

"The AMFA boys claim that the leaders of the TWU are in it only for the money. What they fail to tell you is that Delle makes approx $180,000 per year and represents about 23,000. Whereas the TWU represents over 150,000."

Funny you should bring that up. I once said to Bobby Gless that his pay was too high. We were one of the smaller locals yet he made $97,000 a year, $12,000 more than the 38,000 member Local 100. His rational for that was that since his members on average made more than Local 100s he should get paid more. Well Delle members, on average make much more than Sonny Halls average member yet Sonny makes more than Delle.

How is succes measured in a union, by how many members you have or how well those members live?

AMFA also uses The McCormick Group. (a management group) who negotiates their contracts. The are NOT voted on by the members and CANNOT be directly recalled. They get paid on the basis of the number of members, which is approx $800,000. If they get in at AA they will get somewhere in the range of $1.5 MILLION. (the AMFA boys aren't the only ones who do their homework!!)

Wrong. They can be "recalled" if you want to call it that. If the members want to get rid of McCormick they tell Delle to get rid of them, if he does not they can remove Delle. We have Jim Little negotiate our contracts, an ex baggage handler turned dispatcher now negotiator/ATD Director. We can not remove Jim Little or Sonny Hall.

Speaking of Delle, the AMFA boys think he is the best thing since sliced bread! That he knows all the ins and outs of the aviation industry enough to lead a union of mechanics. Well, Delle worked in the aviation business for maybe 7 years and has not held a certificate since around 1966. He has been in real estate for many, many years. Now, I'm willing to bet that that is something the FORGOT to tell you! How convenient of them huh??!

Wrong again. Delle has been the President of AMFA during those years. He was representing mechanics at several different airlines so he has been in the industry. There was a period there where AMFA was nearly extinct and Delle worked as a real eestate agent, so what, the man has seen hardship and persevered unlike our union leaders who have been sucking from the union teat for years. How many years did Kerrigan actually work as a mechanic? How many years did Sonny work as a mechanic? None you say? Never even worked in the industry. How many years did Little work as a mechanic? None you say? The fact is that Delle has a liscence and because he still works in the industry his liscence is just as valid as Bobby Gless' or Dennis Burchette's.


The last thing I will mention is all this talk about AMFA getting the mechanics in one union. To quote Bob . . .
What is wrong with ALL the Mechanics trying to get into ONE UNION?
I'll tell you what the problem is but first let me ask this question. What will become of the rest of what the National Mediation Board (NMB) determines to be the craft and class? The NMB decides by law who AMFA will and will not represent. They have ruled (at AA) that Titles I, II and IV fall under craft and class of maintenance and related. Point being, for AMFA to claim they are a "craft union" is simply inaccurate.

They will all go to AMFA. While they may not all be A&P mechanics they are still mechanics. Title IV serivices, a mechanics function. That is what has happened over at the other carriers and none of those groups have petitioned to leave AMFA or start a card drive.


A little tibit of info.

On the TWUs last LM-2 it shows that they took in $40,233769 from 110,000 members. Since the dues rate is a flat 2 hrs pay per month this means that the average TWU member earns only $15,24 per hour. While AMFA formula for dues is different and you cant figure out the hourly rate using the LM2 its a safe bet since we knowthat the highest paid are NWA and SWA that the average AMFA member earns around $30/hr. So which union gets their members better pay, the TWU @$15/hr average or AMFA @$30/hr average. This makes a difference because from Sonnys position at $30/hr we make double of what the average member makes, that means that we make at least triple of what many many TWU members make, so how hard is Sonny going to fight for us when he has members that make less than $10/hr? Hey a loaf of bread,,,,,,.

 

[Calvin]

Mr. Owens, now I am confused. You stated Mr. Little negotiates our contract. I thought our locals did this . Do we not act as our "District" as we had with the IAM, and do we not have our locally elected officials, with the assistance of the International and Mr. Luby, bargain for our contract?

You also stated that we were handed concessions during good times. Please explain. And please put in simple language. Thank you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr. Owens, now I am confused. You stated Mr. Little negotiates our contract. I thought our locals did this . Do we not act as our "District" as we had with the IAM, and do we not have our locally elected officials, with the assistance of the International and Mr. Luby, bargain for our contract?

You also stated that we were handed concessions during good times. Please explain. And please put in simple language. Thank you.

The locals do not negotiate with the company, the locals negotiate with the other locals to come up with a concensus that is presented to Jim Little who then leaves with the offer and then comes back to tell the committee what the company said. During the 2001 negotiations which went on for several months, according to several of the participants of the negotiations, the company only met with the committee around five times.

For all the committee knew Jim could have taken their proposal, went up and watched Jerry Springer for a while, then came down and said "the company said no but they will go for such and such".

I'm not familiar with the setup you had at the IAM.

In 1995 the company was making a profit, we gave the company SRPs and a six year contract with only a six percent increase over the life of the contract.

In every contract that we have had since 1983 there were concessions. Flex benifits, prefunding and other concessions were put in when the company was making money.

What you have to remember is that the locals have no legal control over the contract or negotiations. The committe is a charade thats put in place so the Locals will support passage of the contract. It is to make them feel as if they have a say. But, make no mistake the contract belongs to the International, not the locals. The international has the only say, as far as the union is concerned, as to its interpretation. They are also free to modify the contract without our consent if in their eyes its an "improvement".

We often hear them claim that everything has to get cleared by the Presidents council. Thats false. The Presidents council is not even an official body of the union. When Sonny Hall decided to have seperate Locals the Presidents council, in a moment so rare, would not consent or pass the motion. Sonny put it in place. When members of the Presidents council took Sonny to court the Judge agreed with Sonnys claim that the Presidents council has no jurisdiction over him and he could do as he saw fit in managing the union.

The Presidents council serves two purposes, it provides the International with feedback from the members, which is good, but is also provides the members and the Local the illusion that they have real input and control of the organization.

 

[Raptor]

Personally even if it were not for the Huge concession that I voted NO on and donot approve of I would still want AMFA because it is more than just being mad about the concession, it is about the fact that AMFA has an intirely different philosophy than the TWU as they are two different types of Unions one is a craft Union and one is and Industrial Union, the constitutions are different the bylaws are different and the members are different it is those differences that make the difference so really its up to everyone to listen to what the leaders have to say about what makes their Union different than the other or you can do your own research by reading both constitutions and bylaws after that you pick which Union represents your beliefs it is as simple as that, AMFA represents my beliefs more than the TWU so that is why I am supporting AMFA.

Sometimes change is good, I can understand why the people who will get left behind in the TWU might not like AMFA as they do not want to be left behind, but the Mechanics must look out for their craft and class.

by the way someone mentioned that they thought I was Dan Cunningham I am not and Mr. Cunningham generally posts under his real name.

 

[Calvin]

Hello all, first off, since I am here on the eve of a new year may I wish everyone a safe New Years eve and more beneficial New Year. I believe the wife and I are staying home and popping champaigne with the horses. They don't let me out often.

Thanks for the explanation of the contract negotiations, I think I get it now. Bottom line is still, we vote on the presented package. Let's hope we are all still here to vote on the next one.

Raptor, I quickly read both constitutions and did not find to many differences. Now, I believe there is a difference in operations. I do not see the members being any different, reason is, if we vote AMFA am I going to change? Don't believe so, wife and kids been trying for some time now to change me, lost cause they say.

Mr. Owens I agree with you about concessions. I blame the USA for allowing this. The rich folks want NAFTA and the other one in Miami that is going to be I heard "NAFTA on steroids". I heard the Mexicans were up in arms their work was going south, now that's messed up. I see these airlines attempting to farm out work to bring our wages in line with TIMCO and others. I praise the work Gary Oliphant and Steve Pierce have done locally for MCIE and now all for their bringing back into house what had been outsourced. Good example I heard, cable blocks. We made about 200 here out of wood, a screw and nutplate, cost approx. $2. AA told stores not to issue those but to issue the $40 blocks they had purchased from outside source. Where's the bookkeeper?

OSM's need some discussing also, we do not have OSM's here. Our shop mechanics still make mechanic's wages. As IAM they always did also. A mechanics a mechanic. Rebuilding a 727 flap transmission or other is not the job to be done by the untrained. Mechanics job. Needs looking into I believe. You were correct again when you stated our (IAM's) work rules were better, we still scratch our heads on the way AA does things around here. ANd don't you dare try and tell them any different, that's funny.

What TWU did get you all that I think is a good item is the "No furlough" clause. I know the concessions made it necesary to move the date back to justify the headcount, but prior to that,good grief, it can't get much better, not worrying about employment. We have to wait until the next contract I suppose, even if AMFA is voted in, correct?

Well, my fingers are getting tired, this has really enlightened me and makes me do some homework, thanks for the initiative.

 

[Rusty]

Happy New Year!!!!

 

[jake]

Well I guess we are having a copy/paste contest. lmao here ya go try this one!!!

Received: 12/26/03 12:42:52 EST
Name: Dan Cunningham
E-Mail:
Employer: aa
Location: AFW
Message:
Dear Mechanic & Related Personnel at AA,

To those that would like to see me debate some twu folks I can only ask, "Where have you been?" I've been debating all twu comers for the better part of 10 years and haven't seen too many believers in my neck of the woods for quite some time because they don't have any replies to what their union of choice is doing when presented with facts. My debating skills were, in the early days, known to be a little unpolished, but after debunking many a twu believer I have come into my own as a serious challenger of the "Great Mystic" Sunny Hall. This is not to say I've ever had the pleasure to debate Mr. Hall, but I'd be glad to any day of the week.

I know Mr. Hall's good friend and legal advisor, one Mr. Art Luby, has basically, in the last few months, worn a great deal of egg on his face every time I see him. His less than honorable attempt to RAID the AMFA during contract talks at Atlantic Coast Airlines (ACA) by starting a Craft Union, most probably with TWU DUES MONIES, called the Aircraft Maintenance Technicians Union (AMTU) during the 1998 contract negotiations has led Mr. Luby to be viewed by many a righteous AMTs and others as nothing but a dung eating Worm!

We can all take stabs at the other side, but the facts remain unarguably that:

The TWU was started by the Communist Party.
The TWU mocks true DEMOCRACY and only pays lip service to the membership.
The TWU states that Mike Quill was the first President when indeed Tom O'Shea
was the first President of the TWU and WAS DIRECTED TO STEP ASIDE TO LET A
BETTER COMMUNIST TAKE THE REINS OF CONTROL, one Mr. Mike Quill.
The TWU, and the other industrial unions, such as; the IAM and IBT, are
structured to give total dictatorial power to their top officials without
a direct vote by the membership.
The TWU has served as an Agent for American Airlines for probably most of their
57 years on the property representing Mechanic & Related Workers.
The TWU has created the most aggressively management friendly union leaderships
throughout their system of "Strong, Autonomous Locals".
The TWU started the industry into a 20 YEAR DOWNWARD SPIRAL IN PAY AND BENEFITS
with their INDUSTRY LEADING "B" SCALE!
The TWU has provided to every airline they represent the ability to rabidly go
after any worker or group that stands defiantly against aggressive
management behavior or fights against their own unions' sellouts!
The TWU has provided themselves grandiose Wages with no paycuts even for their
own families, while their own members in ever growing numbers file
bankruptcy.

I'll not be detered by some overpaid Public Relations cowards that are afraid to come out into the light of day to be heard, but here hide out on bulletin boards throwing "Cheap Shots" at honorable men and women that choose to fight rather than cower, that choose to educate themselves rather than believe just what they are told, that know the futures of their own children hang in the balance.

Lets get Art Luby to testify during a debate about the true nature of his actions to undermine AMFA negotiations at ACA.

Lets ask Art Luby to testify as to what he meant when he stated to the Local 567 Membership that we could not be forced out of the now OSM shops when they were peddling the SRP program in 1995 only to find out, in a short 6 months, that Mr. Luby was providing the charade of Legal Speak AAtrition to get us to buy off on his misrepresentations.

Lets ask Mr. Sunny Hall and Mr. Jim Little about the balloting that was conducted illegally, or in the least, immorally to bastardize the results of the recently ratified 5O YEARS OF CONCESSIONS contract.

Lets ask Mr. Hall and Mr. Little why they used ECLAT, company that had worked for American Airlines not 6 months earlier to persuade the local Presidents of the dire financial straits at AA.

Lets ask Mr. Hall and Mr. Little if the $318,000,000 was just to push us back to the stone age in wages and help AA keep a Maintenance Base or two open while attempting to beat back the AMFA drive they knew was coming.

Finally, I'd like to thank Mr. Hall for selecting a known Felon to help his anti-AMFA campaign here at AFW. That has helped us tremendously. Also, I'd like to thank Mr. Hall for making me the HIGHEST PAID AMT at American Airlines! Thanks Sunny, for you direction, to a new union, and your assistance in getting a bit of my pay back for me!

Have an AMFA New Year!

"Company Man" Dan Cunningham

Rusty,
It's amazing who you choose to put your trust in. This is my response about Dan's email. . .

It is always depressing to deal with the sick mind of Dan Cunningham, but occasionally I get fed up with the BS and feel the need to respond. Dan, running your gums on the workfloor and insulting people who disagree with you is not debating. TWU Local 514 and TEAM TWU have called for a debate among rank and file leaders with a neutral moderator. That kind of debate means that whoever participates will have to answer questions with facts and rational arguments, not insults. With this debate format, the mechanic and related workers at AA will be able to make an intelligent choice as to which organization will provide them with the best representation. I'm confident that their choice will be to stick with the TWU.
I realize that a rational debate where statements will be scrutinized is not your style. Your specialty is slander and attempts at intimidation. That is why I expect that you will not have the guts to show up to the debate on January 15 at the Renaissance Hotel.

It is unfortunate Dan that the AMFA organization hangs it’s hat on people like you. The fact is, should you show up on the 15th you’d have to come armed with facts. We know with you that doesn’t happen. You’d have to explain all the failed promises of the AMFA organization. You’d have to explain why in 2001, when AMFA signed its first contract at NWA, they had almost 10,000 members. Currently to date the number is nearing 5,000. And you’d have to explain Dan why at NWA all those layoffs affecting thousands of men and women trying to feed their families have happened when the company has not even been close to bankruptcy. You and your AMFA brethren preach that the membership run the organization. This is the same membership that your AMFA advocates don’t want debating on their behalf.

As for all the other innuendos, I only have a couple of things to say. I do not know if Michael Quill was a communist, although I have never seen any proof that he was. I do know that he was a courageous leader who fought for civil rights and worker dignity back when you had to risk your life to do so. I also know that red baiting is the last refuge of the scoundrel and the union buster. Every great labor leader has been called a "red" by company goons and right wing hacks. Dan, these are your fellow travelers. I'm sure you feel right at home among the right wing hacks.

I am one of the many mechanics whose license was saved by Art Luby, not that people who spend their full day at AA organizing for AMFA would have to worry about such things. Art is not on TWU staff and can represent whomever he wants. It is apparently just fine for AMFA's law firm to represent groups trying to decertify APA at AA, and ALPA at USAir and Delta, or to run raids at UAL, USAir, and NWA when the IAM was in negotiations. But, when a group of mechanics get disgusted with AMFA after four years of no contract and no representation, and form their own union, Art Luby is supposed to hang up the phone when they call.
What crap.

It was also fine for you to spend your time trying to persuade the dispatchers to leave the TWU. You are the guest and helper of any group that wants to destroy the TWU. But, when you showed up at the PAFCA meeting and told the dispatchers you were supporting PAFCA, those who were still riding the fence were convinced to stick with the TWU. Given your track record, show up at the debate on January 15, and start talking. I bet the same light will go on.