Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[Bob Owens]

Oh yeah all that stuff is sooooo important! I guess thats why amfa allows that work to be done by UNLICENCED OUTSIDE VENDORS!!!! Part of the 38% blunder that contains NO SNAP BACK!! [/QUOTE]




Lets not forget the A-300 Interior checks that used to be done at JFK by A&P mechanics that went over to non-liscenced people over in England. So here you have work taken away from Licenced TWU members, shipped overseas to unliscenced non-members but is does not even count as "outsuorced" by the TWU because they are AA employees. (By the way they did not take concessions like we did.)

AA has people doing maintenance in several other countries, all of them non-TWU members but none of it is considered "outsourced" since they are AA employees. If we were to figure in all those mechanics and the OSMs at work that once was considered aircraft mechanics work under the definition of the contract, add in all that AA outsources including Matsushita , Tanks R us, push backs and deicing how would our outsourcing rates compare then?

 

[j7915]

At NWA, At NWA, At NWA, do you have anything else you think or speak of? That must be why TEAM TWU restricts the length of time for questions at their debate. How long does it take to ask the same question 12 different ways?

So at Northwest, AMFA farmed it out, but somehow kept their pay and benefits? Meanwhile, TWU does the in-house farmout, plus destroys 40 years of pay and benefit gains, plus lifts job security and RIF's the protected workers.

So they both allow non-licensed workers, but there is ONE BIG glaring difference. Can you peg that also? Why don't we all agree to work for $11.50 per hour and then AA can hire every non-licensed, unemployed, relative, on the planet?


Why do you hold AMFA to a higher standard than you do your own union?

How is that TWU card drive progessing at NWA anyway?

Why don't you step forward and ask for $11/hr. The facts are that the OEMs are not paying $$ for OSM work that you bad mouth and consider demeaning when it suits your agenda, but it does pay a better than market wage in the areas where it is paid. When has AA demanded that you accomplish A&P work for less than A&P wages?

Would I hang around in QA at any less than what I make now? Probably not, but then I have too many years to quit and not-enough time ahead of me to work my way up somewhere else.

The reason NWA is brought up is because that is where AMFA has had an oportunity to shine, and so far the light is rather dim. Alaskan, is outsourcing, SWA never has had much in-house work, UAL is just about a larger version of SWA. Even Eagle is apparently going to in-house work, at least Tulsa is getting the landing gears?

 

[TWU informer]

The reason NWA is brought up is because that is where AMFA has had an oportunity to shine, and so far the light is rather dim. Alaskan, is outsourcing, SWA never has had much in-house work, UAL is just about a larger version of SWA. Even Eagle is apparently going to in-house work, at least Tulsa is getting the landing gears?

Oh yeah, ONE NEGOTIATIED labor agreement.

Doubled Pension Payments, Set a New Industry Standard in Pay, and Restricted a 100% Potential Outsource to 38%.

That's more than the TWU has ever gained in ONE CONTRACT.

Alaska has increased Mechanic Headcount.

Southwest has increased Mechanic Headcount.

And you and your gang of liars can't see the forest for the trees!

 

[Bob Owens]

Lets say we didnt have a union and we needed to pick one. What do you think would be the logical choice?

A catch all union where the average member only makes $15/hr (TWU)or a mechanics union where the average member makes over $30/hr(AMFA)?

So is the decision to want to stay with the TWU based on logic, or something else?

 

[TWU informer]

Bob,

It is called burying your head in the sand and defending the most docile union in the inudstry under the banner of loyalty.

UN-FRIGGEN-BELIEVEABLE

 

[Checking it Out]

I see a nerve has been hit! Dave and Bob truth hurts don't it? NW continues to Outsource, United is following a close 2nd. These are the two that are easy to compare! Amfa has failed with both.

Show us something amfa has done in the last 60 days to bring members back at these two Arlines or have even attempted to stop the outsourcing of work?

 

[Checking it Out]

Dave and Bob, show us something you have done in the last 60 days to help your fellow TWU Union Brothers and Sisters to ensure their jobs at AA? Don't give us your garbage about changing Unions! ALL that is a sure bet of work being outsourced and more jobs lost!!!

 

[Raptor]

Unions do not outsource Jobs, No Unions do this that would be foolish, companies outsource jobs and they do it at their wim, their is nothing that the TWU or AMFA can do to stop this AA could outsource work at anytime, the fact that they haven't just means that they have not done so yet, but that does not mean that they won't some day, The Fact is ALL Unions want to keep jobs and increase pay and benefits some are just more militant about it than others and therefore get better contracts and hold on to them once they get them, some are docile and for some foolish reason give 20 years worth of contract negotiations away and some form dumb teams like team twu
and some Union Leaders let their little teams do their fighting for them so that they don't have to leave their 500,000 dollars homes in their 35,000 dollar cars to defend their Union

Just call me Team Raptor
Give up resistance is futile you will be assembled into the collective
:jerry:

 

[TWU informer]

I see a nerve has been hit! Dave and Bob truth hurts don't it? NW continues to Outsource, United is following a close 2nd. These are the two that are easy to compare! Amfa has failed with both.

Show us something amfa has done in the last 60 days to bring members back at these two Arlines or have even attempted to stop the outsourcing of work?

Welcome back CIO. Do you figure your exposed stupidity is enough pages back on this thread that is was safe to show up again? Oh don't worry, there a few who still go back and read the whole thread. Until the NWA/AMFA outsource formula has been applied to AA, then we have not compared anything. ECLAT's formula and DOT41 is company union material. When are we going to apply a working man's formula? When AMFA is on the property, that's when.

AMFA has NOT failed at anything, you fool.

THE IDEA IS TO GET ALL MECHANICS IN ONE UNION

and until you are AMFA, the idea couldn't have been tried yet.

How can something fail, that has not been tried as of yet?

Keep on betting your position on that one claim. You will be back to the toolbox sooner than later.

 

[Boomer]

This thread started with the AMFA V. TWU debate and the ground rules that will govern such a debate.

If the TWU wants a real debate; why not GUARANTEE that the TWU will not attempt to include OR exclude any AA/TWU Represented Union Members on the Title I, Title II, Title IV(Fuelers), SimTechs, or TechServices System Seniority Rosters or any Union Member holding recall to same?

Could it be that the TWU is currently negotiating a contract at American Eagle which attempts to formally create a Title II contract group for the first time?
Eagle Aircraft Maintenance Negotiations from the TWU ATD.org

Could Single Carrier Status Be Far Behind If Such An Argument Is Made?

 

[Calvin]

Hello all, hope everyone survived the New Years without a hitch. I see the online "debate" is alive and well.

One question Mr. Informer, why the name calling, ref. AMFA has NOT failed at anything, you fool.
I see two problems there, one being stating AMFA has not failed, did they not just lose in an organizing attempt, and two being, why the"fool" name, can't you , or better "we", discuss items without name calling? I realize we get emotionally involved but to keep this on a higher level may I suggest we depart from the name calling, both sides.

The debate the 15th should allow some ventings of frustration, hopefully in a professional manner.

Good luck to both sides, I believe each side wants the best for their respective members, lets not let it make an irrepairable injury to relations. Thank you from the farm.

 

[Buck]

Calvin:

I would like your opinion on an issue concerning this debate on the 15th of January.

If the TWU membership is well over 15,000 mechanic and related, how large of a conference room should the host have?

How long should a debate of this nature last per meeting?

 

[TWU informer]

Hello all, hope everyone survived the New Years without a hitch. I see the online "debate" is alive and well.

One question Mr. Informer, why the name calling, ref. AMFA has NOT failed at anything, you fool.
I see two problems there, one being stating AMFA has not failed, did they not just lose in an organizing attempt, and two being, why the"fool" name, can't you , or better "we", discuss items without name calling? I realize we get emotionally involved but to keep this on a higher level may I suggest we depart from the name calling, both sides.

The debate the 15th should allow some ventings of frustration, hopefully in a professional manner.

Good luck to both sides, I believe each side wants the best for their respective members, lets not let it make an irrepairable injury to relations. Thank you from the farm.

Calvin, you've got it all wrong.

It is NOT name Calling, It is FACT:

fool

Pronunciation: (fOOl), [key]
—n.
1. a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.
2. a professional jester, formerly kept by a person of royal or noble rank for amusement: the court fool.
3. a person who has been tricked or deceived into appearing or acting silly or stupid: to make a fool of someone.
4. an ardent enthusiast who cannot resist an opportunity to indulge an enthusiasm (usually prec. by a present participle): He's just a dancing fool.
5. a weak-minded or idiotic person.
6. be nobody's fool, to be wise or shrewd.

I notice you and Drippy have something in common...

calvin = 171.75.216.234

Name: dialup-171.75.216.234.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net

IP Address: 171.75.216.234

Location: St. Louis (38.633N, 90.194W)

Genuity GNTY-171-79 (NET-171-73-0-0-1)

171.73.0.0 - 171.79.255.255

Level 3 Communications, Inc. BBNINC-0-6 (NET-171-75-0-0-1)

171.75.0.0 - 171.75.255.255



Drippy Quill = 171.75.216.205

Name: dialup-171.75.216.205.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net

IP Address: 171.75.216.205

Location: St. Louis (38.633N, 90.194W)

Genuity GNTY-171-79 (NET-171-73-0-0-1)

171.73.0.0 - 171.79.255.255

Level 3 Communications, Inc. BBNINC-0-6 (NET-171-75-0-0-1)

171.75.0.0 - 171.75.255.255

ARE YOU TWO, LIKE THE GOOD COP, BAD COP, ALTER EGOS OF EACH OTHER?
I Smell a RAT!

 

[mojo13]

Hello all, hope everyone survived the New Years without a hitch. I see the online "debate" is alive and well.

One question Mr. Informer, why the name calling, ref. AMFA has NOT failed at anything, you fool.
I see two problems there, one being stating AMFA has not failed, did they not just lose in an organizing attempt, and two being, why the"fool" name, can't you , or better "we", discuss items without name calling? I realize we get emotionally involved but to keep this on a higher level may I suggest we depart from the name calling, both sides.

The debate the 15th should allow some ventings of frustration, hopefully in a professional manner.

Good luck to both sides, I believe each side wants the best for their respective members, lets not let it make an irrepairable injury to relations. Thank you from the farm.

Calvin, you've got it all wrong.

It is NOT name Calling, It is FACT:

fool

Pronunciation: (fOOl), [key]
—n.
1. a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.
2. a professional jester, formerly kept by a person of royal or noble rank for amusement: the court fool.
3. a person who has been tricked or deceived into appearing or acting silly or stupid: to make a fool of someone.
4. an ardent enthusiast who cannot resist an opportunity to indulge an enthusiasm (usually prec. by a present participle): He's just a dancing fool.
5. a weak-minded or idiotic person.
6. be nobody's fool, to be wise or shrewd.

I notice you and Drippy have something in common...

calvin = 171.75.216.234

Name: dialup-171.75.216.234.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net

IP Address: 171.75.216.234

Location: St. Louis (38.633N, 90.194W)

Genuity GNTY-171-79 (NET-171-73-0-0-1)

171.73.0.0 - 171.79.255.255

Level 3 Communications, Inc. BBNINC-0-6 (NET-171-75-0-0-1)

171.75.0.0 - 171.75.255.255



Drippy Quill = 171.75.216.205

Name: dialup-171.75.216.205.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net

IP Address: 171.75.216.205

Location: St. Louis (38.633N, 90.194W)

Genuity GNTY-171-79 (NET-171-73-0-0-1)

171.73.0.0 - 171.79.255.255

Level 3 Communications, Inc. BBNINC-0-6 (NET-171-75-0-0-1)

171.75.0.0 - 171.75.255.255

ARE YOU TWO, LIKE THE GOOD COP, BAD COP, ALTER EGOS OF EACH OTHER?
I Smell a RAT!

According to posts I've read they both claim to live in the Kansas City area. Why would they be paying long distance charges to St. Louis for dial-up service? Either they are both lying or your source information is not very reliable.

 

[Calvin]

I do not see the need to respond to Mr Informer in this matter. What you have done sir is show my kids your apptitude level is 2 clicks lower than theirs. I do live in KC, are we to have a quiz of the KC area now judge my honesty? I do not really care if you run my IP address every day, I also know how to do the same but see no relevance to this and the issues.

I find it difficult to take what some of the AMFA supporters state as fact. Informer, I have also done some research on you, but I will not publicise. Attempting to stray away from the facts , for whatever reason, seems to be your forte. I may have to get others that are swaying as to who to believe in this mess to read your rantings of cut and paste. There is no end to your foolishness.

Wish you well on the 15th. Thank you.