Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[Raptor]

It's a close call Rusty I don't know who to give the copy and paste award too, I kind of like yours alittle better but the other one is interesting as well, and I agree totally once again with scorpian you are right on with your posts tonight man,
a Mechanic debate would be nothing more than a meaningless shouting match just like in our shops and none of us would get anything out of it, not to mention that the best person to talk about AMFA is Delle no one knows more than he does about AMFA and the best person to talk about the TWU is not a supporter but someone who is at the top and knows the TWU more than any of us could possibly know.
Don't we want to hear from the people who really know the two Unions the best the guys who have made it to the top due to their skill and knowledge.

 

[jake]

My goodness how the truth brings the out the chest beaters! (ME TARZAN....YOU JANE). Hey "pukes" accept the challange or shut up about how much you want a debate. We completely understand your argument about why you want OVarion Delle to debate, the fact is we just don't give a crap about what you think. If the members run things in AMFA, then there should be someone on the planet capable. The difference is your AMFA boys likely will give opinion because that's all they have, on the other hand the TWU will, in fact, present factual information with the ability to back up every word. On the other hand, I wouldn't show up if I were you either!

Rusty,
Dude, your not too smart are you. You accuse a guy of being a felon and then post something from Dan Cunningham? Holy cow, you're just asking for someone to post his record aren't you? You might check with Dan before you start that thread!Last thing Rusty, Um lets see.....OK OK...Um, I used to have a freind named Um, Rusty and um he couldn't think very good!.....(that slow enough for you Einstein?)

Here's something for you Buck.....,
I believe ALL the mechanics involved in "Hootergate"?..........got their jobs back! oops Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

and you Scorpion,
You don't read well do you. Let me reiterate for you...I said there had been NO OFFICIAL communication requesting a debate sent from AMFA to any office of the TWU prior to the response at 7pm to Sonny Hall's office. So let's face it, Your AMFA boys got what they say they wanted.....now they're back peddling, backstroking, um.... swimming up stream, that's right they're CHICKEN!!!

p.s. If there happens to be some form of proof that AMFA asked the TWU in an official manner first, please feel free to post it.

TTFN whiners!

 

[Buck]

Why would I have a problem with them getting their jobs back?

Would explain who was involved, no names just who they were, were they mechanics or what? Please explain what really happened?

 

[mojo13]

This is interesting, cio says the AMFA made the first challenge so the twu should set the time and place. Now were back to the twu made the first challenge.
That post reminded me of the shop debates that we're all sick and tired of.
They usually conclude by the twu diehard yelling and screaming his ass off with nothing important comming out just like the threads posted by team twu the last few days. Alot of name calling and no substance. This is the type of debate no one wants to see.
The good thing about this forum is we are spared the loud obnoxious b.s. first hand but I bet the pounding you guys give your keybaords when your typing your threads makes every woopecker within two blocks envious!!!!!!

TWU CHALLENGES AMFA TO DEBATE
AMFA Responds By Asking for Alternative Debate

On Monday, December 22, at 4pm, the TWU faxed a debate challenge to AMFA’s headquarters in Laconia, New Hampshire. Rather than accepting the TWU’s challenge, AMFA responded three hours later by proposing an alternative debate to be held two days after the debate hosted by the TWU.

There will only be one day of debates. On Thursday, January 15, at the Renaissance Hotel in Tulsa, TEAM TWU will have a panel of rank and file leaders who will make the case for sticking with our union. We are still waiting to hear whether AMFA is ready to step up to the plate and have their rank and file leaders show up and debate on January 15.

TEAM TWU decided to propose a debate with rank and file leaders because we are the ones who need to debate and decide which organization – the TWU or AMFA – is best able to represent us in the future. Our local leaders are best equipped to debate how we can protect our jobs and improve our wages and benefits in the years to come.

AMFA wants a format with its national director, O.V Delle-Femine, debating Sonny Hall. We reject this proposal because we are not about to let a bureaucrat from Laconia, New Hampshire, dictate how we will debate and how we will make our decisions.

TWU is Ready To Debate on January 15th
Will AMFA Accept Our Challenge?
TEAM TWU

 

[TWU informer]

TWU CHALLENGES AMFA TO DEBATE
AMFA Responds By Asking for Alternative Debate

On Monday, December 22, at 4pm, the TWU faxed a debate challenge to AMFA’s headquarters in Laconia, New Hampshire. Rather than accepting the TWU’s challenge, AMFA responded three hours later by proposing an alternative debate to be held two days after the debate hosted by the TWU.

There will only be one day of debates. On Thursday, January 15, at the Renaissance Hotel in Tulsa, TEAM TWU will have a panel of rank and file leaders who will make the case for sticking with our union. We are still waiting to hear whether AMFA is ready to step up to the plate and have their rank and file leaders show up and debate on January 15.

TEAM TWU decided to propose a debate with rank and file leaders because we are the ones who need to debate and decide which organization – the TWU or AMFA – is best able to represent us in the future. Our local leaders are best equipped to debate how we can protect our jobs and improve our wages and benefits in the years to come.

AMFA wants a format with its national director, O.V Delle-Femine, debating Sonny Hall. We reject this proposal because we are not about to let a bureaucrat from Laconia, New Hampshire, dictate how we will debate and how we will make our decisions.

TWU is Ready To Debate on January 15th
Will AMFA Accept Our Challenge?
TEAM TWU

TALK ABOUT CONFLICTING HOGWASH!

THESE GUYS ARE IN DESPERATION MODE!!

OUR RESPONSE WILL COME SOON ENOUGH


If we are to believe CIO's premise of "Normal Procedures" AMFA has a not only set the time and location but also was generous enough to provide a venue large enough to allow everyone to participate. What is all disagreemnent about?

Why not debate both leadership and rank and file? ALL DAY LONG AT THE BRADY THEATER IF THAT IS WHAT IS TAKES?

TWU WILL ALLOW ANYONE TO ATTEND? That is NOT what your challenge stated! You are not LIARS again are you?

 

[mojo13]

I have to agree with this comment by Chuck Schalk

"Better yet, If the TWU feels strong enough that they are the best for our class and craft, the TWU should call for a representational election and put the issue to rest once and for all by a membership vote. The membership is the union, so let them decide."

 

[TWU informer]

What is wrong with Satruday at the Brady Theater?

AMFA has secured the building which seats 2800 members. TWU has a room for 250.

I believe Saturday allows more members to attend. TWU only allows one hour for the afternoon debate. They schedule the meeting for 4:00pm and only have the room rented until 5:00pm.

I believe the debate participants could include both National/International Officers from both unions and members, which will allow for a forum of ALL involved. TWU wants to claim only the members should debate. TWU has focused on Northwest Airlines for the majority of the campaign. The AMFA Officers are best suited to answer these claims. AMFA suuporters at American have tried to keep the focus on happenings at AA, but the TWU focus is always on other airlines.

TEAM TWU is using this as some charade and the response will generate the same results that AMFA has garnered throughout the industry when the industrial union uses tactics that demostrate lack of good judgement. An AMFA win at American is coming soon.

At Horizon Airlines, the TWU believed then that the members should hear a debate between the INTERNATIONAL LEADERS. At Horizon, the TWU proposed a debate and that challenge resulted O.V. Delle-Femine debated then International Officer Dennis Burchette. TWU LOST TO AMFA AT HORIZON AIR. Shall I begin uploading the video we have of that debate for all to see? Now the TWU at AA claims we should NOT debate National Officers, because that would be unfair to members who need to decide. The TWU has been caught in a major lie, and continues to dig themselves deeper into the hole.

I am actually beginning to sympathize with the demise of TEAM TWU h34r:

 

[TWU informer]

TEAM TWU decided to propose a debate with rank and file leaders because we are the ones who need to debate and decide which organization – the TWU or AMFA – is best able to represent us in the future. Our local leaders are best equipped to debate how we can protect our jobs and improve our wages and benefits in the years to come.

Translation - TWU International President Sonny Hall will NOT debate AMFA, in fact nobody in the TWU International will debate AMFA, thus we are trying save face by deflecting the debate to the rank-and file.

Hey TEAM TWU,

If your Local Leaders are "best equipped" to debate as you claim, then why not offer to send them to the Brady Theater and let 2800 members watch? Your not hoodwinking us are you?

 

[Buck]

If the TWU only requires a 250 seat room for the debate of an issue as important to the membership as their livelyhood, why do they need a new union hall in TUL?

Considering the population of the membership at Local 514, attendance at meetings would reflect the need for a room of 250 for a debate.

 

[TWU informer]

MORE CONFLICTING COMMUNICATION COMING IN FROM THE TWU...

TWU CHALLENGES AMFA TO DEBATE
AMFA Responds By Asking for Alternative Debate

On Monday, December 22, at 4pm, the TWU faxed a debate challenge to AMFA’s headquarters in Laconia, New Hampshire. Rather than accepting the TWU’s challenge, AMFA responded three hours later by proposing an alternative debate to be held two days after the debate hosted by the TWU.

There will only be one day of debates. On Thursday, January 15, at the Renaissance Hotel in Tulsa, TEAM TWU will have a panel of rank and file leaders who will make the case for sticking with our union. We are still waiting to hear whether AMFA is ready to step up to the plate and have their rank and file leaders show up and debate on January 15.

TEAM TWU decided to propose a debate with rank and file leaders because we are the ones who need to debate and decide which organization – the TWU or AMFA – is best able to represent us in the future. Our local leaders are best equipped to debate how we can protect our jobs and improve our wages and benefits in the years to come.

AMFA wants a format with its national director, O.V Delle-Femine, debating Sonny Hall. We reject this proposal because we are not about to let a bureaucrat from Laconia, New Hampshire, dictate how we will debate and how we will make our decisions.

TWU is Ready To Debate on January 15th
Will AMFA Accept Our Challenge?
TEAM TWU

Point #1 - If AMFA made the challenge first, then according to CIO, under "normal procedures" they are allowed to set the time and location. But notice they are more importantly attempting to change the particpants.

Point #2 - Look at their communications, they claim that it was TWU who "CHALLENGED" AMFA, and now they want to violate CIO's "normal procedures" and not allow AMFA to set the time and location.

Point #3 - Usually the LIAR can be identified by motive. Who do you think the liars are on this subject matter?

 

[Rusty]

Rusty,
Dude, your not too smart are you. You accuse a guy of being a felon and then post something from Dan Cunningham? Holy cow, you're just asking for someone to post his record aren't you? You might check with Dan before you start that thread!Last thing Rusty, Um lets see.....OK OK...Um, I used to have a freind named Um, Rusty and um he couldn't think very good!.....(that slow enough for you Einstein?)

p.s. If there happens to be some form of proof that AMFA asked the TWU in an official manner first, please feel free to post it.

TTFN whiners!

"Dude, your not too smart are you."

I appreciate your being honest about your intelligence level but, please leave me out of it.

That doesn't change anything about my dog jake being turned into mush from a locomotive. I always wondered if the conductor even looked back. Poor doggy!!!

Here is your proof!!!

You know, we do this kind of thing sometimes just to see how the TWU will try and spin it up. lol If it were not for TWU lies, deceptions and half truths, I would not be here as with many others. I believe the TWU has made more AMFA organizers because of the lies, deceptions, and half truths than for any other reason. This leads me to believe you are incorrect on one of your points. You are actually smart, have figured it out, and you are on AMFA's side!!!

 

[Raptor]

Great come back Rusty you got him on the ropes and me lmao


I think basically what Team TWU is saying is that there is no International officer with enough guts to face Delle, I understand Delle is a very intelligent man and is quite intimidating to our highy over paid International officers, they know that they would not stand a chance against him and they also do not want to face the membership that they screwed over, we have not had a meeting with the TWU Leaders since they gave away our contract, and there is a reason for that, they are not only afraid of Delle, but they are afraid of the members that they screwed, so they do not want to face us nor do they really care what we think, so Delle will be at the Brady on the 17th and if our TWU Leaders are afraid to show up then we can hammer on them for a couple of hours with no opposition, also we can applaud Delle for being a Leader with the guts to face the people.

So to all AMFA organizers bring plenty of AMFA cards to the debate on the 17th because when no TWU Leader is to be found, Mechanics will be signing cards there as fast as we can give them out.

Also if a TWU officer shows up in the crowd and starts asking questions of Delle, I will be the first one to tell him to get up on the stage, the audience is not where we want our officer at this debate it's the stage.
and you know team TWU will be standing outside of the brady theater trying to intimidate people into not going in anybody want to bet me on this, if they do that it's ok as that will be used against them as well, we are going to have a very productive meeting at the Brady I think.

TWU where the Leaders are scared and the sheep are even scareder

 

[TWU informer]

Here is a link to an audio clip from the AMFA vs TWU Horizon Debate.

Remember, Dennis Burchette at the time was on the TWU International staff.

It is interesting that the TWU at Horizon Air thought enough of their membership to send a TWU International Representative to debate O.V. Delle-Femine, but at American Airlines, they run and hide from the debate amongst National Leaders.

Of course after you listen to this clip, and then understand that the TWU lost the NMB Election to AMFA, only then do we come to understand why this AA debate has been filled will muddy water communications and a major smoke and mirros campaign.

Here is the audio:
Dennis Burchette debating O.V. Delle-Femine

Would any of the TEAM TWU members like to explain why the Horizon Air membership was worthy of a National Officer debate and we at American Airlines are not?

For those of you that are AMFA Organizers or suppporters, be prepared to gasp when you hear the content of this clip.

If Mr. Burchette is correct and we can recall ANY elected official in the TWU, Then shall who shall we begin recall proceedings on first? And how do we execute suh a privlage?

 

[TeamTWU]

Love to debate a debate...point being..AMFA takes back seat.

 

[TWU informer]

Compared to what TEAM TWU?

"WITHOUT FURTHER RATIFICATION"?

I CHOOSE DEMOCRACY AND DELLE-FEMINE