Amfa Includes Management

[twuer]

Aircraft Artificer,

The problem with cio, and the tragically faithful twu supporters that are running the twu Local 514, is that they are not Aircraft Mechanics, or very few at best. They believe the lies they propagate because they have never worked the line, and signed off a log book after repairing an aircraft. Then watch it roll down the runway at 80 knots, with a full load of people and the feeling of pride as it climbs out of sight knowing that name in the logbook is their own. The twu Local 514 faithful are mostly Facility Maintenance (cio), Machinists, Stores Clerks, Rampers and so on. Tulsa Local 514 has demonstrated time and again how little regard they have for the AMT suffering at a line station.

I AM NOT degrading these others positions in any way, they are important to the job at hand; producing safe, reliable aircraft. However, these persons DO NOT have the same responsibilty as the AMT, which is ultimately being held criminally liable for any mistakes made while returning an aircraft to service. When the AA AMT's get AMFA, (and we WILL) the AMT coat tails they have ridden on for so many years are gone. They will never understand the line operation, working midnights, weekends, and holidays outside in extreme weather. Trying to make ends meet in a high cost city, which is now impossible without a second income. Then watching while AA management says NO OVERTIME to the mechanic, and the rampers recieve unlimited overtime with some of them making 100K plus. Most of the Local 514 officers would not be able to transfer to the line operation in the event that management at the M@E base in Tulsa were to lock the gate.

If you watch the latest twu Local 514 anti-AMFA video, I rest my case. You have a stores clerk telling the AMT's how bad AMFA is, when this person will not even recieve a ballot to vote in the upcoming twu/AMFA representational dispute. The twu Local 514 had to pay stores, rampers, the retired, ex-iam officers, afl-cio cronies, and teamsters to get support in the twu video made by Local 514 and their hired PR firm. Very few actual AMTs are in the twu video. I venture a guess of less than 10%.

I am quite sure my words here will be twisted by the twu liars club, and I will be called an "elitist" by the few twu cultists that continue to spread the hatred of something they do not understand.

I again DO NOT disparage against the other workers, but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.

Its time for the AMT to stand up for ourselves, it seems no one else will.

AMFA NOW!!!!!

Hackman. . .
but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.


I find it interesting that this comes up from time to time when trying to sell amfa. Please tell us Hackman how amfa will get this accomplished. Does amfa have that much power that they can change laws now?? They barely have a voice in Washington, if any at all!! Your dream of a union with only mechanics might sound good but is not possible. But do tell us, since you are preaching it so diligently, how amfa will get this done!! Those who are under the impression that this will happen if amfa does get in probably would like to hear what you have to say. Oh, and how is this working for them at the other airlines amfa represents. . .all mechanics yet?????

Oh and by the way. . .I am an airplane mechanic with and A&P not a 514 officer and am very proud of what I do everyday. Better get the correct information before you go spouting your mouth off again! It makes you look bad!! (Kinda like the sign thing!!) Talking crap the way you do could get you in trouble with some. Especially when you insult their profession and integrity the way you just did. Contrary to popular amfa belief. . .one classification is no better than the other.

AMFA-Another For Me Association

 

[Rusty]

twuer, obviously you do not understand what or why unions were created in the first place. If you will take a look at the graph of our wages and benefits you will see the twu has no strength and there is no reason to believe it will ever change. At least I have not seen the light at the end of some twu tunnel! Considering these facts would lead a wise person to seek another avenue of strength. Get it!!! Labor has gotten it's ass kicked for, ever since I can remember. It is time to do something different rather than business as usual with the dictatorship twu!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Rusty, A question for you. Have you ever experienced working in a "Sweat Shop" enviroment?.... I have! You must be one of those that went to school on mommies dime and got you a job at AA. If you had ever worked in a non union, sweat shop enviroment, you would be a little more appreciative of what you have. Being UNION is not all about getting you a fat pay check........!

------------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Rusty]

Rusty, A question for you. Have you ever experienced working in a "Sweat Shop" enviroment?.... I have! You must be one of those that went to school on mommies dime and got you a job at AA. If you had ever worked in a non union, sweat shop enviroment, you would be a little more appreciative of what you have. Being UNION is not all about getting you a fat pay check........!

------------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

So High SS are you advocating unionism should be about accepting concessions for another twenty plus years??? How low will you go to just have a job? Where will you draw the line?

 

[TWU Jim]

You AMFA nuts would not know a decent union if it hit you in the face. A decent union stands for all the members not just the elite few. Actually the picture of the Nazi's is a better depiction of AMFA.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Rusty, A question for you. Have you ever experienced working in a "Sweat Shop" enviroment?.... I have! You must be one of those that went to school on mommies dime and got you a job at AA. If you had ever worked in a non union, sweat shop enviroment, you would be a little more appreciative of what you have. Being UNION is not all about getting you a fat pay check........!

------------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

So High SS are you advocating unionism should be about accepting concessions for another twenty plus years??? How low will you go to just have a job? Where will you draw the line?

Rusty, Thanks for answering my question. You responded exactly as I suspected you would. Being UNION is more than a fat pay check....So suck it up...!!!!!

----------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Rusty]

Rusty, A question for you. Have you ever experienced working in a "Sweat Shop" enviroment?.... I have! You must be one of those that went to school on mommies dime and got you a job at AA. If you had ever worked in a non union, sweat shop enviroment, you would be a little more appreciative of what you have. Being UNION is not all about getting you a fat pay check........!

------------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

So High SS are you advocating unionism should be about accepting concessions for another twenty plus years??? How low will you go to just have a job? Where will you draw the line?

Rusty, Thanks for answering my question. You responded exactly as I suspected you would. Being UNION is more than a fat pay check....So suck it up...!!!!!

----------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

LMAO I suspected you suspected that is the way I would answer! Maybe one day when this is over we can trade stories but, for now I will not give you something to twist. Oh, and thanks for answering my questions also as I suspected you would do the same.

 

[Hackman]

Aircraft Artificer,

The problem with cio, and the tragically faithful twu supporters that are running the twu Local 514, is that they are not Aircraft Mechanics, or very few at best. They believe the lies they propagate because they have never worked the line, and signed off a log book after repairing an aircraft. Then watch it roll down the runway at 80 knots, with a full load of people and the feeling of pride as it climbs out of sight knowing that name in the logbook is their own. The twu Local 514 faithful are mostly Facility Maintenance (cio), Machinists, Stores Clerks, Rampers and so on. Tulsa Local 514 has demonstrated time and again how little regard they have for the AMT suffering at a line station.

I AM NOT degrading these others positions in any way, they are important to the job at hand; producing safe, reliable aircraft. However, these persons DO NOT have the same responsibilty as the AMT, which is ultimately being held criminally liable for any mistakes made while returning an aircraft to service. When the AA AMT's get AMFA, (and we WILL) the AMT coat tails they have ridden on for so many years are gone. They will never understand the line operation, working midnights, weekends, and holidays outside in extreme weather. Trying to make ends meet in a high cost city, which is now impossible without a second income. Then watching while AA management says NO OVERTIME to the mechanic, and the rampers recieve unlimited overtime with some of them making 100K plus. Most of the Local 514 officers would not be able to transfer to the line operation in the event that management at the M@E base in Tulsa were to lock the gate.

If you watch the latest twu Local 514 anti-AMFA video, I rest my case. You have a stores clerk telling the AMT's how bad AMFA is, when this person will not even recieve a ballot to vote in the upcoming twu/AMFA representational dispute. The twu Local 514 had to pay stores, rampers, the retired, ex-iam officers, afl-cio cronies, and teamsters to get support in the twu video made by Local 514 and their hired PR firm. Very few actual AMTs are in the twu video. I venture a guess of less than 10%.

I am quite sure my words here will be twisted by the twu liars club, and I will be called an "elitist" by the few twu cultists that continue to spread the hatred of something they do not understand.

I again DO NOT disparage against the other workers, but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.

Its time for the AMT to stand up for ourselves, it seems no one else will.

AMFA NOW!!!!!

Hackman. . .
but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.


I find it interesting that this comes up from time to time when trying to sell amfa. Please tell us Hackman how amfa will get this accomplished. Does amfa have that much power that they can change laws now?? They barely have a voice in Washington, if any at all!! Your dream of a union with only mechanics might sound good but is not possible. But do tell us, since you are preaching it so diligently, how amfa will get this done!! Those who are under the impression that this will happen if amfa does get in probably would like to hear what you have to say. Oh, and how is this working for them at the other airlines amfa represents. . .all mechanics yet?????

Oh and by the way. . .I am an airplane mechanic with and A&P not a 514 officer and am very proud of what I do everyday. Better get the correct information before you go spouting your mouth off again! It makes you look bad!! (Kinda like the sign thing!!) Talking crap the way you do could get you in trouble with some. Especially when you insult their profession and integrity the way you just did. Contrary to popular amfa belief. . .one classification is no better than the other.

AMFA-Another For Me Association

As I exspected, the "mouth behind the mask" comes forward to twist what I said into his your own perverted twu truth, which is lies, and nothing else. AMFA does not have to sell anything, AMFA is a craft union at its best, and that alone sells itself. Eight airlines and soon to be NINE.

If you call what the afl-cio has in Washington a voice, then your as demented as you seem. Under the afl-cio's "protection", the American union man has lost his ass FOR YEARS. They once might have been mighty, but like the twu, corruption and greed took over many years ago. Read the book "Taking Care of Business, The Tragedy of American Labor and the afl-cio", and open your blind twu eyes to the fact that the afl-cio is not what you think it is.

We are under a "craft and class" as determined by the government, that is a fact. Under AMFA this will also be the case. However, the AMT will be the majority in AMFA, unlike what we have now with your beloved twu, where rampers dominate, and always will. Try to twist it as you wish twuer, and you of course have tried here, but you again, failed. The other airlines employees are doing far better under AMFA than they ever did under the industrail unions, and that includes your toilet workers union. When it comes to pay and benefits, we in the twu are dead last at the majors. Do not forget we have thousands on layoff also. The twu comically stated recently that everyone is back to work, and we have no layoffs. It must be the 'ol twu standby; "tell a lie enough and it becomes the truth", right?

FWI twuer, because you say your an "airplane mechanic with and A@P", I'm just suppose to believe you on your good word? I guess you really are a fool. Why not prove it? What are you worried about? Really though, I could care less what you do or who you are. Your just another twu robot hiding behind an alias, as is the norm for team twu cultists. You credibilty is....well, sorely lacking here.

I in no way insulted anyones profession, the chips will fall where they may, and everyone will soon stand on their own merits. I wish them all good luck that are left with the twu as their bargaining agent. That even includes you twuer.



The twu is out the door in 04!!!!

 

[Buck]

You AMFA nuts would not know a decent union if it hit you in the face. A decent union stands for all the members not just the elite few. Actually the picture of the Nazi's is a better depiction of AMFA.

Is that why the B-Scale, C-Scale and SRP\OSM classifications were created?

 

[Bob Owens]

You AMFA nuts would not know a decent union if it hit you in the face. A decent union stands for all the members not just the elite few. Actually the picture of the Nazi's is a better depiction of AMFA.

Oh really? Well if we gave all those concessions to save jobs then howcome there are over 4000 less people working than the TWU claims we have in our class and craft?

Tell me how having every employee work a week for free, thanks to the loss of a weeks vacation, keeps more members on the headcount?

For every 50 members that gave up a week the company put one extra worker out on th street without reducing production.

According to your numbers, the vacation concession put 372 more members on the street. If the idea was saving jobs and giving the company money then why didnt you just say that we still had to take the week, without pay, so the 372 extra guys could have kept their jobs? The TWU could have given up the company paid UB and given each and every one of those 372 members $8000.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Oh really? Well if we gave all those concessions to save jobs then howcome there are over 4000 less people working than the TWU claims we have in our class and craft?

Tell me how having every employee work a week for free, thanks to the loss of a weeks vacation, keeps more members on the headcount?

For every 50 members that gave up a week the company put one extra worker out on th street without reducing production.

According to your numbers, the vacation concession put 372 more members on the street. If the idea was saving jobs and giving the company money then why didnt you just say that we still had to take the week, without pay, so the 372 extra guys could have kept their jobs? The TWU could have given up the company paid UB and given each and every one of those 372 members $8000.

Twu Jim, Hi welcome aboard....! I just wanted to welcome you to this festive site...! Never mind "Tabloid Bob" he allways goes on the attack when someone new log's in....Psssst.... You know he likes to try and intimidate new posters, especially those that don't support his elitist agenda...! I am really suprised that he didn't spew any of his blue on you......!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[twuer]

Aircraft Artificer,

The problem with cio, and the tragically faithful twu supporters that are running the twu Local 514, is that they are not Aircraft Mechanics, or very few at best. They believe the lies they propagate because they have never worked the line, and signed off a log book after repairing an aircraft. Then watch it roll down the runway at 80 knots, with a full load of people and the feeling of pride as it climbs out of sight knowing that name in the logbook is their own. The twu Local 514 faithful are mostly Facility Maintenance (cio), Machinists, Stores Clerks, Rampers and so on.  Tulsa Local 514 has demonstrated time and again how little regard they have for the AMT suffering at a line station.

I AM NOT degrading these others positions in any way, they are important to the job at hand; producing safe, reliable aircraft. However, these persons DO NOT have the same responsibilty as the AMT, which is ultimately being held criminally liable for any mistakes made while returning an aircraft to service. When the AA AMT's get AMFA, (and we WILL) the AMT coat tails they have ridden on for so many years are gone. They will never understand the line operation, working midnights, weekends, and holidays outside in extreme weather. Trying to make ends meet in a high cost city, which is now impossible without a second income. Then watching while AA management says NO OVERTIME to the mechanic, and the rampers recieve unlimited overtime with some of them making 100K plus. Most of the Local 514 officers would not be able to transfer to the line operation in the event that management at the M@E base in Tulsa were to lock the gate.

If you watch the latest twu Local 514 anti-AMFA video, I rest my case. You have a stores clerk telling the AMT's how bad AMFA is, when this person will not even recieve a ballot to vote in the upcoming twu/AMFA representational dispute. The twu Local 514 had to pay stores, rampers, the retired, ex-iam officers, afl-cio cronies, and teamsters to get support in the twu video made by Local 514 and their hired PR firm. Very few actual AMTs are in the twu video. I venture a guess of less than 10%.

I am quite sure my words here will be twisted by the twu liars club, and I will be called an "elitist" by the few twu cultists that continue to spread the hatred of something they do not understand.

I again DO NOT disparage against the other workers, but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.

Its time for the AMT to stand up for ourselves, it seems no one else will.

  AMFA NOW!!!!!

Hackman. . .
but its waaaaayyyy past time the AA Mechanic and related to have our own union, just like the Pilots and the Flt Attendants.


I find it interesting that this comes up from time to time when trying to sell amfa. Please tell us Hackman how amfa will get this accomplished. Does amfa have that much power that they can change laws now?? They barely have a voice in Washington, if any at all!! Your dream of a union with only mechanics might sound good but is not possible. But do tell us, since you are preaching it so diligently, how amfa will get this done!! Those who are under the impression that this will happen if amfa does get in probably would like to hear what you have to say. Oh, and how is this working for them at the other airlines amfa represents. . .all mechanics yet?????

Oh and by the way. . .I am an airplane mechanic with and A&P not a 514 officer and am very proud of what I do everyday. Better get the correct information before you go spouting your mouth off again! It makes you look bad!! (Kinda like the sign thing!!) Talking crap the way you do could get you in trouble with some. Especially when you insult their profession and integrity the way you just did. Contrary to popular amfa belief. . .one classification is no better than the other.

AMFA-Another For Me Association

As I exspected, the "mouth behind the mask" comes forward to twist what I said into his your own perverted twu truth, which is lies, and nothing else. AMFA does not have to sell anything, AMFA is a craft union at its best, and that alone sells itself. Eight airlines and soon to be NINE.

If you call what the afl-cio has in Washington a voice, then your as demented as you seem. Under the afl-cio's "protection", the American union man has lost his ass FOR YEARS. They once might have been mighty, but like the twu, corruption and greed took over many years ago. Read the book "Taking Care of Business, The Tragedy of American Labor and the afl-cio", and open your blind twu eyes to the fact that the afl-cio is not what you think it is.

We are under a "craft and class" as determined by the government, that is a fact. Under AMFA this will also be the case. However, the AMT will be the majority in AMFA, unlike what we have now with your beloved twu, where rampers dominate, and always will. Try to twist it as you wish twuer, and you of course have tried here, but you again, failed. The other airlines employees are doing far better under AMFA than they ever did under the industrail unions, and that includes your toilet workers union. When it comes to pay and benefits, we in the twu are dead last at the majors. Do not forget we have thousands on layoff also. The twu comically stated recently that everyone is back to work, and we have no layoffs. It must be the 'ol twu standby; "tell a lie enough and it becomes the truth", right?

FWI twuer, because you say your an "airplane mechanic with and A@P", I'm just suppose to believe you on your good word? I guess you really are a fool. Why not prove it? What are you worried about? Really though, I could care less what you do or who you are. Your just another twu robot hiding behind an alias, as is the norm for team twu cultists. You credibilty is....well, sorely lacking here.

I in no way insulted anyones profession, the chips will fall where they may, and everyone will soon stand on their own merits. I wish them all good luck that are left with the twu as their bargaining agent. That even includes you twuer.



The twu is out the door in 04!!!!

AMFA does not have to sell anything, AMFA is a craft union at its best, and that alone sells itself.

There are those words again..You didn't answer my questions of how amfa will get this accomplished Hackman. I didn't twist anything. . .I merely asked you to continue with your thoughts and explain yourself.

FWI twuer, because you say your an "airplane mechanic with and A@P", I'm just suppose to believe you on your good word? I guess you really are a fool. Why not prove it? What are you worried about? Really though, I could care less what you do or who you are. Your just another twu robot hiding behind an alias, as is the norm for team twu cultists. You credibilty is....well, sorely lacking here.

Using an alias on a bulletin board has absolutely nothing to do with anything Hackman. What the hell is Hackman?? Is that the name given to you at birth? How do you know that my nickname is not TWUer?? You don't!! I don't know you from Adam. This is just another criticism you guys bring up to keep you from having to answer the difficult questions like what has amfa done for the profession, what are they going to do for the profession, for the members at AA, if they get in? You have NO answers because there are no positive ones.

the chips will fall where they may,

Oh yes. . .this is amfa's way of saying I'll get mine but screw you!!!

amfa- Another For Me Association

 

[j7915]

Oh really? Well if we gave all those concessions to save jobs then howcome there are over 4000 less people working than the TWU claims we have in our class and craft?

Tell me how having every employee work a week for free, thanks to the loss of a weeks vacation, keeps more members on the headcount?

For every 50 members that gave up a week the company put one extra worker out on th street without reducing production.

According to your numbers, the vacation concession put 372 more members on the street. If the idea was saving jobs and giving the company money then why didnt you just say that we still had to take the week, without pay, so the 372 extra guys could have kept their jobs? The TWU could have given up the company paid UB and given each and every one of those 372 members $8000.

Bob, how many would be on the streeet right now without the concessions? It is easy to complain and to try to make others answers to "what-if" questions, when you can't seem to, OR ARE UNWILLING, TO satisfactorily address the fact that UAL, NWA just about eliminated overhaul, Alaskan realigned, with the expectation that they could cut headcount, and SWA is almost all line maintenance.

If you want to see what an all one skill group can do look at the laws and regulations that govern the pilots, F/As and dispatchers. Amts are far from having that regulated protection, and they won't get it under today's business environment.

I have a what-if question for you: what will AMFA do about the outsourcing, and the legal structure of amts? You want support, come up with proposals. Don't be bashful, you will be given the credit for the winning idea.

 

[Decision 2004]

The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€￾

This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€￾

In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.

Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority ruleâ€￾ and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€￾, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.

Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.

AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS

 

[twuer]

And tell us Dave, in your own words, what does that mean? Separating from those in your own craft and class??? That's what amfa preaches??

Of course it is. Big pipe dreams that are not attainable without a magic wand. What a joke amfa is. They try to sell something they can't deliver!!!! That would be grounds for a lawsuit wouldn't it???? FRAUD???!!!!!!!!!!