oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
How true! ALPA's always been about "I've got mine, and while you're at it, I want yours too". There is no unity other than the common theme, GREED.
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ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5
- Thread starter Edward
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ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
USAPA is not going to achieve a DOH cramdown on the west. This whole "let's VOTE" thing, while quaint, is not going to allow the East pilot group to take a mulligan on the arbitration. It's unfortunate that the "Angry FO from Cranberry Club" has deluded a bunch of people into thinking otherwise.
The West's legal counsel, who has beat up on the East's at every opportunity will continue to do so, and the East will continue to enjoy LOA 93 while it's all going on. Additionally, the west guys have recently added fuel to the DFR fire by going Section 6. They really are smarter than "stupid."
Watching all the rhetoric about dumping ALPA for various altruistic reasons is fun, but the entire world knows that it's really about Nic. And that's the one thing that won't change in the end.
Makes for great theatre. Popcorn is called for.
The West's legal counsel, who has beat up on the East's at every opportunity will continue to do so, and the East will continue to enjoy LOA 93 while it's all going on. Additionally, the west guys have recently added fuel to the DFR fire by going Section 6. They really are smarter than "stupid."
Watching all the rhetoric about dumping ALPA for various altruistic reasons is fun, but the entire world knows that it's really about Nic. And that's the one thing that won't change in the end.
Makes for great theatre. Popcorn is called for.
E
EastUS
Guest
E
EastUS
Guest
So speaks "The Entire World"...whew!. Well..at least we won't now have to wait for 767jetz to show up and speak for "The Majority of Pilots", given that you're now covering the whole planet's 6 billion or so individually. 
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
Unfortunately the movie you're "producer" envisions will get little critical acclaim. Looking forward to your lawsuit.
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
From the ATA bankruptcy, I believe the planes/routes are going to the other two carriers at ATA, World and North American. It will be interesting to see how ALPA "protects" the ATA pilot's jobs.
Were ATA a viable carrier and were to sell a/c to US, traditionally, ALPA has not protected the pilots. They would certainly be no worse off with USAPA.
Parker on seniority, I wonder how usapa will get around this.
JOINT STATEMENT OF LABOR PRINCIPLES
The management teams at both US Airways and America West Airlines recognize the anxiety and uncertainty created among our valued employees since news of a potential merger surfaced in April, and we sincerely regret that legal constraints prevented us from providing you with more details about our discussions. Now that we have announced our planned merger, we can assure you that we have heard your requests to be kept informed and we will be as open as possible as this transaction progresses.
The leading question is the obvious one: what will happen to my job if America West is ultimately merged into US Airways? We’ll try to give you our best answer, but please keep in mind that it will take a long time to complete an operational integration and, as we’ve already seen, there’s always the potential for unexpected changes in our industry.
Even once we begin the process of integrating our operations, it’s still hard to say what will happen to anyone’s particular job. For employees in work groups not represented by a collective bargaining agent at either airline, our management teams will be fair to employees at both carriers. Every employee is entitled to be evaluated individually, and there is no presumption that employees of one airline will be favored over the other.
For employees in work groups represented by unions, the question of what will happen to your jobs is even harder for us to answer because so much of what will happen is outside management’s control. Our labor contracts contain different provisions governing how seniority lists will be integrated, and depending on your specific contract, provide for integration in accordance with a particular union’s merger policy or certain “Allegheny Mohawk†seniority integration provisions. We will honor those contractual commitments, and the ultimate outcome of seniority integration will be determined by your collective bargaining representatives as dictated by your contracts.
Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitable protocols as they implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply “staples†all employees of one airline to the bottom of the other’s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable. To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.
Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone’s best interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater certainty, even if expectations are not always met.
We will provide updates about the proposed merger as soon as we can, while continuing to be honest about what we can’t predict. We truly believe this proposed merger is in the best interests of employees at both airlines, and we will work hard to provide you with information as we move towards a combined airline that has a great future ahead.
Sincerely,
Doug Parker Bruce R. Lakefield
JOINT STATEMENT OF LABOR PRINCIPLES
The management teams at both US Airways and America West Airlines recognize the anxiety and uncertainty created among our valued employees since news of a potential merger surfaced in April, and we sincerely regret that legal constraints prevented us from providing you with more details about our discussions. Now that we have announced our planned merger, we can assure you that we have heard your requests to be kept informed and we will be as open as possible as this transaction progresses.
The leading question is the obvious one: what will happen to my job if America West is ultimately merged into US Airways? We’ll try to give you our best answer, but please keep in mind that it will take a long time to complete an operational integration and, as we’ve already seen, there’s always the potential for unexpected changes in our industry.
Even once we begin the process of integrating our operations, it’s still hard to say what will happen to anyone’s particular job. For employees in work groups not represented by a collective bargaining agent at either airline, our management teams will be fair to employees at both carriers. Every employee is entitled to be evaluated individually, and there is no presumption that employees of one airline will be favored over the other.
For employees in work groups represented by unions, the question of what will happen to your jobs is even harder for us to answer because so much of what will happen is outside management’s control. Our labor contracts contain different provisions governing how seniority lists will be integrated, and depending on your specific contract, provide for integration in accordance with a particular union’s merger policy or certain “Allegheny Mohawk†seniority integration provisions. We will honor those contractual commitments, and the ultimate outcome of seniority integration will be determined by your collective bargaining representatives as dictated by your contracts.
Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitable protocols as they implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply “staples†all employees of one airline to the bottom of the other’s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable. To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.
Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone’s best interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater certainty, even if expectations are not always met.
We will provide updates about the proposed merger as soon as we can, while continuing to be honest about what we can’t predict. We truly believe this proposed merger is in the best interests of employees at both airlines, and we will work hard to provide you with information as we move towards a combined airline that has a great future ahead.
Sincerely,
Doug Parker Bruce R. Lakefield
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
What you need to do, Leo, is to ask yourself, who are they addressing and why.
Is management telling the intended audience that management will now determine "seniority"? Are they placating their respective employee groups, and, if so, why?
You provided no date (clever you) but I would imagine this was part of "selling the merger" and reveals little of what they actually thought.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Parker more recently said he would work with, and negotiate with, whichever CBA the pilots elect.
You quote ancient history. If a USAirways CEO lived up to everything he ever said, we would have "more Airbuses than God could count" (Stephen Wolf), and "I haven't even hired my 1990 captains yet." (Ed Colodny to a group of new hire pilots in 1987.)
Why dig up ancient history as a blueprint for the future? Why not ask Parker TODAY how he feels?
You quote ancient history. If a USAirways CEO lived up to everything he ever said, we would have "more Airbuses than God could count" (Stephen Wolf), and "I haven't even hired my 1990 captains yet." (Ed Colodny to a group of new hire pilots in 1987.)
Why dig up ancient history as a blueprint for the future? Why not ask Parker TODAY how he feels?
I see. So you criticize ALPA for not "capturing the seniority" of those pilots, when apparently USAPA would do the same thing as ALPA, but that is OK.
You guys just don't get it, the west has already told parker that should seniority be touched, litigation would commence, this letter is just one of the exhibits that
will be available. So is it going to be as easy as usapa says?
Is that the new slogan: "Vote for USAPA! We're not any worse than ALPA!"
Inspiring.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
You are absolutely right. Seniority WILL NOT be touched. Your contract will be honored in exactly the way seniority is defined. You guys signed it, and I am confident that this fact has not escaped Mr. Parker. Meantime, the east pilots are expecting Mr. Parker to honor OUR seniority exactly the way it is defined in OUR contract.
Funny thing, though. It's the same in both. DOH.
Keep reaching. BTW can you tell what combined seniority list parker has accepted in writing?
nycbusdriver
Veteran
I have not heard anything from Parker concerning the Nicolau abomination. We know it made it into his office. We don't know if it made it into his filing cabinet, desk or shredder.
"Keep reaching" you say? Do you really think that the seniority sections of both contracts are not germane now, or when you waste your time filing frivolous lawsuits? Do you think your contract is a small stumbling block that maybe some federal judge may be willing to overlook only to get you to stop whining?
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