ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[Phoenix]

Well, lookee-lookee.

He neither confirms nor denies...hurumph....

Notice he does not deny the remarks only that they were "inaccurately described".

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: aaamec-rt
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Letter from Delta MEC Chairman to US Airways pilots


ALPA: The Pilots Union

You bother to read ALPA stuff?

Oh, for the comedic effect!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Atta boy end of alpa! Don't forget you can do some flying through mid continent stations to do some west flying too. If you work hard at formulating a good plan you could also take my ELP or MSP overnights (please). If you are going to compete with us though make sure you don't put together one list and keep separate ops if USAPA wins or your grand scheme will fall apart since there would be no more east and west after you reorder the list. You want my parking pass for the employee lot in PHX too? Anything else I can get for you out here?

Hey, if Leonidas and the rest of you can claim we're scabs, maybe we shouldn't disappoint you.

Of course, I'm trying to make a point here. It is one thing to certainly harbor disappointment that our two groups couldn't see eye to eye, but to have AWA pilots support the demise of USAPA and the things D.S. and T.P. over on the ALPA forum "gouge our eyes out" with seems to support the way you "feel" or "believe" we'll act on behalf of USAPA.

I personally would not be interested at all in the "loss" of your job or career. In fact, if USAPA wins, why don't we all just see how things play out. If....and I say IF.....all of us, East and West, can come to mutual agreements regarding fences and restrictions I believe we just might make some headway and to our MUTUAL benefit.

If the majority of the cadre of West pilots are like D.S. and T.P., however, I think you should be prepared to live with something less than you would have accepted as equitable.

 

[EastUS]

Well, lookee-lookee.

He neither confirms nor denies...hurumph....

Notice he does not deny the remarks only that they were "inaccurately described".

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: aaamec-rt
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Letter from Delta MEC Chairman to US Airways pilots


ALPA: The Pilots Union


Mr. Ciabattoni goes to great lengths in his effort to mischaracterize the ALPA Executive Board proceedings which placed Council 41 in trusteeship. Not only does he mischaracterize the proceedings, he also takes excessive and extreme liberties by inaccurately describing my remarks to the Board to the point where it is fiction.

After diligent consideration of that evidence, I did in fact make the motion to place Council 41 in trusteeship, a decision I stand behind.

I believe the long-term best interests of our pilots will best be served by the solidarity, experience and infrastructure that ALPA provides. Even then, however, our union can only succeed when led by elected representatives who embody the integrity, character and leadership you have so clearly demonstrated. You continue to have my respect, gratitude and admiration for all you have done on behalf of the pilots of US Airways.

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC

"After diligent consideration of that evidence," Umm..exactly what did that "diligent" farce consist of?...Counting and/or "grading" the Loyalty Oaths, or lack thereof, for "merit"?
In summation: "I, a mighty Delta guy..moved to replace YOUR Council members with our selected Alpa Shills" Gee!..So far I can't see even the tiniest "problem"

"I believe the long-term best interests of our pilots..." Umm..who's?..Delta's?...or merely the fantasyland "Pilots" up in Herndon? Who actually constitutes "our pilots" here? Most certainly, not the line pilots that actually elected the PHL reps, that much is clear to any and all.

We then dive, with the wildest abandon, into the usually fantasized "solidarity"..whatever TF THAT means in this case...WHO'S...supposed "solidarity"?...This is just gettting deeper by the minute. :blink: ..Of course..it actually gets even better = "representatives who embody the integrity, character and leadership you have so clearly demonstrated." Ah..yep...nothing possibly more decisively evident of "integrity" than a kangaroo "court", followed instantly by the emplacement of "appointed" "Loyal Party Members/Wholesale-Shills".

OK..now comes forward the ultimate Alpoid punchline = "Fraternally, " Yeah...sure..see listings under.."Total BS/The BIG LIE/etc".

Oh!.. I almost forgot the famous; "Universal Alpoid disclamer for Alpa's utter incompetance and wholesale inaction" = "In the broad context, as a profession, we find ourselves where we are today largely as a result of the failure of leadership by those who have managed our companies." Yep..that's gotta' be the entire case nationwide...just having an utterly spineless, and purely pathetic farce for a fantasized "union" didn't make the slightest difference at any juncture....sure thing. Perhaps this particualar Alpoid Fat Cat can take time to explain that to the widows of USAir Pilots, who found themselves financially devastated via Alpoid "genius" ..and of course "integrity" during the pension throw away.....nevermind: a person of such import within Alpo wouldn't be so easilly distracted from continually seeking even deeper depths into the Alpoid Trough for his own snout,



Phoenix: "You bother to read ALPA stuff? Oh, for the comedic effect!": Well...naturally. It's the least I can do after all the money '"we've" all spent in mailing out this amazingly abundant tripe

 

[ableoneable]

In summation: "I, a mighty Delta guy..moved to replace YOUR Council members with our selected Alpa Shills" Gee!..So far I can't see even the tiniest "problem"
)

So the temporary ALPA appointees are shills, but the 18 month "interim" USAPA appointees are bold visionaries dedicated, without any threat of recall, to the greater good of all pilots everywhere.

So, oh great revealer of conspiracies, for what reason did the evil DALPA rep swoop out of Atlanta to lay waste to council 41?

 

[Phoenix]

MEC NewsDirect
US Airways Pilot-Wide Call
Thursday, April 3
2 p.m. - 4 p.m.

This was mailed to me at 11:00 am. Just three hours before it happened. Sorta reminds me of Council 41 getting just three days noticed that they were to attend the Salem witch trials, as the guests of honor.

I like that ALPA communicates well and helps me remember.

 

[ableoneable]

"No sweetie, daddy does not get to vote. He is represented by USAPA appointees. Daddy does not know who these people are going to be, but that's okay. Daddy is not good at making decisions so it's better that others do his thinking for him."

 

[Phoenix]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
Tuesday, April 1, 2008

This is Richard Obermeyer with a US Airways MEC update for Tuesday, April 1st, with four new items.

Item 1. We are sending a video to all pilots from FedEx pilot Mike Arcamuzi, the Chairman of ALPA National’s Merger Policy Review Committee....

How apropos that ALPA would send us a video of the Merger Policy Chairman on April Fools Day.

Once again I am grateful that ALPA helps me to remember.

 

[EastUS]

"No sweetie, daddy does not get to vote. He is represented by USAPA appointees. Daddy does not know who these people are going to be, but that's okay. Daddy is not good at making decisions so it's better that others do his thinking for him."

Ok then: Who do you want as reps out there? Why not start communicating? If the west's awaiting the election result..I can understand a reluctance to interact, but...that leaves little immediate room to justly complain about not having input.......

 

[ableoneable]

Ok then: Who do you want as reps out there? Why not start communicating? If the west's awaiting the election result..I can understand a reluctance to interact, but...that leaves little immediate room to justly complain about not having input.......

First of all I was questioning you as to why a temporary ALPA appointee is a shill while a more or less permanent USAPA appointee is not.

Second, what was the DALPA reps motivation? I understand that as an ALPA rep he is inherently evil, but specifically why did he need to perpetuate this evil deed.

Third, to answer your question, I am not interested in anyone representing me who has an 18 month free ride of unaccountability. If he/she can't be democratically selected or replaced then he/she is a trustee not a representative.

 

[Phoenix]

I am not interested in anyone representing me who has an 18 month free ride of unaccountability. If he/she can't be democratically selected or replaced then he/she is a trustee not a representative.

You might notice something extraordinary..

This isn't about you. Its about us. That's why each of us gets to express our opinion and then live with the results of the collective opinion.

Since you currently have your elected ALPA reps in place then I can understand why you might want to keep them (after all they were elected). Vote for them again if you like.

Perhaps you can attempt to place yourself in the position of the PHL and CLT pilots who do not have elected reps. ALPA has made sure that the members of Council 41 and Council 90 have not been afforded the opportunity to vote on "their ALPA" representatives. And amazingly they have done so in the midst of the first representational dispute they have faced in forty years.

 

[nostradamus]

ATA alpa chairman quote after airline was shut down.

“We find it unusually coincidental that ALPA, which was in contract negotiations with ATA and had the best opportunity to change our collective bargaining agreement to reflect the new realities of the industry, was suddenly forced to shut down while World and North American will continue operating under the Global Aero Logistics banner,â€￾ Staples said. “Since when does the acquiring airline go out of business while the acquired airlines keep flying?â€￾

This can not happen according to the alpa media blitz at US Airways;

If you remain with ALPA, you will get…

* More money in your pockets
* More professional negotiators working for you
* More protection during future industry consolidation
* More health and retirement benefits for your family
* More experience and reliability in workplace safety and security issues



ATA Pilots Blast Management’s Late-Night Decision to Cease Operations

 

[sharktooth]

So the temporary ALPA appointees are shills, but the 18 month "interim" USAPA appointees are bold visionaries dedicated, without any threat of recall, to the greater good of all pilots everywhere.

Indeed, the shills were not allowed to vote, contrary to Federal Law. Nice union you got there, little boy.

 

[ableoneable]

You might notice something extraordinary..

This isn't about you. Its about us. That's why each of us gets to express our opinion and then live with the results of the collective opinion.

So it's not even about me when I am asked a direct question about my preferences? You guys change tack so often it makes me dizzy.

Since you currently have your elected ALPA reps in place then I can understand why you might want to keep them (after all they were elected). Vote for them again if you like.

I can't. There is no vote under USAPA. Just appointees, but that's okay there is not much going on union wise, just negotiations for a new contract and for the first time ever a new seniority list to go along with it, all provided by a representative appointed by an organization whose reason de et-re is to hose me.

Perhaps you can attempt to place yourself in the position of the PHL and CLT pilots who do not have elected reps. ALPA has made sure that the members of Council 41 and Council 90 have not been afforded the opportunity to vote on "their ALPA" representatives. And amazingly they have done so in the midst of the first representational dispute they have faced in forty years.

It's only amazing that it took ALPA so long to remove those losers.

BTW, when did council 90 get placed in trusteeship. I must have missed that one.

 

[sharktooth]

First of all I was questioning you as to why a temporary ALPA appointee is a shill while a more or less permanent USAPA appointee is not.

The "shill" cannot vote and an appointee can?

Second, what was the DALPA reps motivation? I understand that as an ALPA rep he is inherently evil, but specifically why did he need to perpetuate this evil deed.

No one said he is "evil". He just said that ALPA National "expected" US to collapse into liquidation and the EC made plans to accommodate such an eventuality, depicting the mind-set of ALPA National, well, we might as well turn away because they are "gone". Such a mind-set would have lost WWII, or most any other action.

Third, to answer your question, I am not interested in anyone representing me who has an 18 month free ride of unaccountability. If he/she can't be democratically selected or replaced then he/she is a trustee not a representative.

So, how would you propose such a transition be handled? Until you get involved, you may think you are getting steamrolled, but, in actuality, you are simply being lazy.

 

[nostradamus]

“We find it unusually coincidental that ALPA, which was in contract negotiations with ATA"

alpa would sure like Southwest Airlines to join, consider yourselves collateral damage to the needs of alpa national sir.

ATA Airlines Milestones
1973 Year founded in Indianapolis by George Mikelsons
1981 Air carrier status approved
1986 Scheduled passenger service begins
1992 Scheduled service hub opens at Chicago-Midway
1999 Surpassed $1 billion in annual revenue
2000 Achieved "Major Carrier" status
2001 ATA begins re-fleeting process and scheduled service from Chicago-Midway to international destinations
2002

ATA begins operation from its new gates at Chicago-Midway's “A” concourse
2003 ATA announces company name change from American Trans Air, Inc. to ATA Airlines, Inc.
2005 ATA names John Denison Chairman and CEO


First-ever codeshare agreement with Southwest Airlines
2006

ATA announces significant expansion with additional West-Coast-to-Hawaii service, entry into Houston
ATA Airlines emerges from Chapter 11 restructuring efforts


ATA announces significant enhancements in codeshare agreement with Southwest Airlines, new service from Oakland, Ontario, CA and Hilo, Hawaii
2007 Subodh Karnik named President and Chief Executive Officer, January 1, 2007
ATA Airlines becomes subsidiary of holding company, Global Aero Logistics Inc.






Southwest/ATA deal puts more pressure on America West