ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[EastUS]

Truth About the MDA Decision

You deserve the truth and should demand it from those who profess to be concerned
about your career and your future.

"Last week the U.S. District judge in New York dismissed the MDA lawsuit..." As in: What they could actually convince the Judge to dump via purely statute of limitations issues, and we'll skip merrily over the additional window now open for assailing the unfair nature of Nic, among other things, via the amended complaint venue,which actually affords even greater lattitude for attacking Alpo.

Yeah...I received the latest version of "The Great and Powerfull Oz has the situation well in hand..Pay no attention to the lawyers behind the curtain/etc" already. Excuse me for just a moment...I feel it absolutely necessary to ROTFLMAO... You just can't possibly yet know how utterly hysterical that truly is = Quoth the Alpa-Raven: "You deserve the truth" ..."Nevermore!".... No serious offence meant..but: Up-Poe-on my soul...some of you folks are amazingly gullible...with percepttive disabilities that Alpa fully courts and counts on...sheesh.

Certainly; Nothing's "done" as of yet, and the results, regardless of reasonable probabilities, can only be fully known after eventual ajudication..but; for Alpa to put such an outrageous "spin"on events to date..and do so under their perverse notions of "Truth"........Don't even the most devout Alpoids have the occasional instant to find themselves even momentarilly scratching their heads from all the ""colorfull Alpa BS?..Just curious....

 

[end_of_alpa]

ALPA Carriers falling like flies:

ALOHA files for bankrupctcy/liquidation 31 March 2008.....350 ALPA pilots on the street

ATA files for bankruptcy 03 April 2008.......600 ALPA pilots on the street

MESA/Freedom looses Delta connection contract, will sue Delta...... ? ALPA pilots on the street

Who is next? My STRONG guess is it won't be an independent carrier.

So tell ME the advantage of being an ALPA pilot.....getting an ALPA paycheck? Oh, that's right, my paycheck says US Airways.

Getting a job with an ALPA carrier? Oh, that's right, their working towards the industry leading contracts, their taking it back, if one pilot has a problem, we ALL have a problem......RIGHT!

US Airways West pilots believe East pilots are "scabs" or Lorenzo raiders.....entitled to flying they NEVER HAD absent a merger.

US Airways East MEC "turncoats" side with ALPA to get more....more of the SAME!

So ALPA National Prater comes out and says:

"Any pilot who has taken off to the west at LAX has no doubt seen the vast port facility off the left side, in Long Beach, Calif. Hundreds of container ships line up to offload their cargo, all destined for hungry consumers somewhere in North America. On the surface, it’s an economic jewel for the United States. As a port of entry, it is crucial to our economy, but it is also a mirage.

Failure to commit to a global vision could lead to a world in which ALPA pilots remain flying just to provide fee-for-departure feed for the foreign airlines that fly lucrative international routes. The good news is that we have allies in this fight.
Nearly every one of the thousands of men and women working on those container ships—from captain to deckhand—is a foreign national.

Imagine a world in which every flight inbound and outbound for a foreign destination belonged to a non-U.S. or Canadian carrier, all with foreign crews. That’s the world that the U.S. maritime industry has become—because of decisions made by the U.S. government, the desire for the industry to lower costs, and the failure of maritime labor to influence the process."

ALPA has NO vision! ALOHA, ATA and many others ALPA pilots are losing their jobs because the NATIONAL pilot system that ALPA envisions is FLAWED! It is why we whipsaw among pilot groups in the first place. The LACK of NATIONAL unity, the LACK of a NATIONAL SINGLE CONTRACT, the lack of INTERNATIONAL VISION is what ALPA has.

NWA and DAL are still looking to merge, global competition and the energy crisis are the main drivers and the pilots there will make OUR merger look like a glee club.

We can avoid much of this, but it WON'T BE IN ALPA! Come the 17th, one way or another, our pilot group will be severely tested. But one thing I DO know, if it is inside ALPA you can kiss any hope of a future career in aviation as a pilot goodbye, unless YOU are willing to fly international.

See you on the other side!

 

[sharktooth]

But I do think that the reasonable people on the east will get shushed, likewise any westy who will try to participate.

The only "shushing" I have seen has almost completely been done by westies and ALPA National.

Intimidation as well as demands for loyalty oaths and fealty are all attempts to circumscribe opinion, as with the "taking of hostages" by ALPA. Over the last ten years, the threat of expulsion is used to keep the normally elected body "on message". Instead of a free, two-way street of opinion, ALPA has throttled itself into a "top-down", Dilbert-like management style, just like failing airlines.

Viewing the tapes of the PHX meeting I see the interim-representatives of USAPA allowing pilots to "vent" in whatever manner befits the pilot's maturity level. The process of taking away of a winning lottery ticket should, indeed, elicit a response no different. It is part of an over-all process of reconciliation, difficult for all but necessary.

Individual pilots can choose to understand the process and use the opportunity to educate and consolidate or to sell-out to camping on the first couple of levels of conflict resolution, never allowing the process to continue and guaranteeing further losses.

I suggest the pilots look to Sec. 6, together. As long as the pilot group understands that they will be negotiating with, mainly, creditors to reduce their ridiculously large cut of the "monthly pie", understanding that "management" are the creditor's brokers, I think the combined pilot group will easily grow their compensation packages, eventually making the effects of "the nic" a bad dream, a nightmare only to be resurrected to show the results of when a union grows weak and lazy.

 

[luvthe9]

We need that National seniority list now, How about it ALPO? (DOH)

 

[end_of_alpa]

We need that National seniority list now, How about it ALPO? (DOH)

Why? Those guys aren't REAL airline pilots. Just like us US Airways East pilots.

The West pilots will benefit if we increase service to HI from PHX. However, East could fly to HI with flagstop service through IND. Since the East pilots are scabs according to the West pilots I guess we can just try to increase our competition with them under the purchace of ETOPS aircraft for international flying out East and doubling up that flying with increased service to the islands.

Of course, our company benefits and we can keep our jobs in the air.

Food for thought.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We need that National seniority list now, How about it ALPO? (DOH)

I imagine ALPA, if they could, would institute a national seniority list by placing each pilot roster in order starting with UAL, then DAL, NWA, CAL...and finishing with AAA at the very bottom.

 

[cynic]

We need that National seniority list now, How about it ALPO? (DOH)

And seniority portability while you're at it. Hate the company you work for, now you can leave and not have to start over at the bottom. Don't base it on DOH though, flight hours would be more directly related to experience than DOH.

 

[end_of_alpa]

And seniority portability while you're at it. Hate the company you work for, now you can leave and not have to start over at the bottom. Don't base it on DOH though, flight hours would be more directly related to experience than DOH.

Now I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT! What you are alluding to is correlative values such a time in type/ type ratings and rankings that are objectively measured. Also how about CREDIT for service in the union that makes acknowledged, measurable and OBJECTIVE contributions to the union overall that verifiably improves the contract conditions of ALL pilots?

Now these are things that make sense.

 

[EastUS]

From Flight Attendants everywhere...Thank You.

My pleasure Ma'am. When it's all said and done..about all we've got left in this once-great industry's the people we work with. There's no point in abusing each other, especially since there's so many eager volunteers from managements, and the sometimes surly public to do that for us.

Sharktooth: "I suggest the pilots look to Sec. 6, together. As long as the pilot group understands that they will be negotiating with, mainly, creditors to reduce their ridiculously large cut of the "monthly pie", understanding that "management" are the creditor's brokers,.."

Amen

 

[dariencc]

I imagine ALPA, if they could, would institute a national seniority list by placing each pilot roster in order starting with UAL, then DAL, NWA, CAL...and finishing with AAA at the very bottom.

Pollock and the Alpa lifers would be fine with that, as long as the "process" is followed. Gotta love the Alpa "brotherhood."

 

[luvthe9]

Do you think the FEDEX (ALPA) pilots are concerned that there company shut down ATA (ALPA) and put 600+ pilots on the street?

 

[b737fo]

The West pilots will benefit if we increase service to HI from PHX. However, East could fly to HI with flagstop service through IND. Since the East pilots are scabs according to the West pilots I guess we can just try to increase our competition with them under the purchace of ETOPS aircraft for international flying out East and doubling up that flying with increased service to the islands.

Of course, our company benefits and we can keep our jobs in the air.

Food for thought.

Atta boy end of alpa! Don't forget you can do some flying through mid continent stations to do some west flying too. If you work hard at formulating a good plan you could also take my ELP or MSP overnights (please). If you are going to compete with us though make sure you don't put together one list and keep separate ops if USAPA wins or your grand scheme will fall apart since there would be no more east and west after you reorder the list. You want my parking pass for the employee lot in PHX too? Anything else I can get for you out here?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Atta boy end of alpa! Don't forget you can do some flying through mid continent stations to do some west flying too. If you work hard at formulating a good plan you could also take my ELP or MSP overnights (please). If you are going to compete with us though make sure you don't put together one list and keep separate ops if USAPA wins or your grand scheme will fall apart since there would be no more east and west after you reorder the list. You want my parking pass for the employee lot in PHX too? Anything else I can get for you out here?

Watch out, he will want your USA Today, next.

 

[b737fo]

Watch out, he will want your USA Today, next.

That's true. Well he can have my manuals as long as he does all the revisions.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Well, lookee-lookee.

He neither confirms nor denies...hurumph....

Notice he does not deny the remarks only that they were "inaccurately described".

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: aaamec-rt
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Letter from Delta MEC Chairman to US Airways pilots


ALPA: The Pilots Union


April 2, 2008

Capt. Jack Stephan, Chairman
US Airways MEC
One Thorn Run Center
1187 Thorn Road Extension
Suite 400
Coraopolis, PA 15108

Dear Jack,

Yesterday afternoon, I was forwarded a copy of an e-mail from “Council 41 Emergency Broadcastâ€￾ with the subject line “A Kangaroo Court.â€￾ The e-mail was written by former Council 41 representative Dave Ciabattoni and presumably addressed to the Council 41 pilots.

Mr. Ciabattoni goes to great lengths in his effort to mischaracterize the ALPA Executive Board proceedings which placed Council 41 in trusteeship. Not only does he mischaracterize the proceedings, he also takes excessive and extreme liberties by inaccurately describing my remarks to the Board to the point where it is fiction.

During the Executive Board proceedings, you, I and our colleagues bore the responsibility for deciding the fate of Council 41. It was a responsibility that none of us took lightly. We carefully listened to and evaluated the evidence provided to us. After diligent consideration of that evidence, I did in fact make the motion to place Council 41 in trusteeship, a decision I stand behind. As you are aware, however, my follow-on remarks were not at all of the inflammatory nature as fantasized by Mr. Ciabattoni.

In the broad context, as a profession, we find ourselves where we are today largely as a result of the failure of leadership by those who have managed our companies. As we are keenly aware, this mismanagement has led to numerous Chapter 11 bankruptcies, and just this week, two carriers indicated they will liquidate under Chapter 7. Our profession’s pay and work rules have been eviscerated, benefits have been cut, and pensions have been severely underfunded and eventually terminated—all events traceable in large part to incompetent management. The financial stresses to our careers have never been greater than in the past few years, and the uncertainty of high oil prices and a looming recession place added financial pressures on our collective futures.

It is not surprising that the resulting anger and frustration have often been directed at our union rather than the managers who brought us here. As you and I have often discussed, our union is not perfect and cannot become complacent in its duty to our pilots. It must always strive to do better; we must always strive to do better. That said, turning our swords inward and replacing ALPA with an inexperienced pseudo-union that continues to make promises it will never be able to deliver upon is not the solution to the challenges we face as professional airline pilots. It is, instead, a recipe for certain disaster.

I believe the long-term best interests of our pilots will best be served by the solidarity, experience and infrastructure that ALPA provides. Even then, however, our union can only succeed when led by elected representatives who embody the integrity, character and leadership you have so clearly demonstrated. You continue to have my respect, gratitude and admiration for all you have done on behalf of the pilots of US Airways.

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC