ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[nycbusdriver]

Why the separate atc call signs?

Why?

Have you seen the YouTube videos?

I know they're just postponing the inevitable and no one knows which call sign is to survive. But given the display there at the PHX shout-down, I think the company wants to see where the dust settles on April 17 before it makes any further attempts to "unify" the pilots in any manner. IMHO.

 

[nostradamus]

"All flight operations are now conducted under the East FAA operating certificate. Also on September 26, 2007, America West Holdings Corporation, West’s parent entity, became a wholly owned subsidiary of East, and West ceased to be a separate SEC registrant."

west, how did you save east, be specific please. Delta, United and Northwest took a trip through bk, all alpa carriers. Now if they chose a ceo with an alcohol problem, is that considered a save.

This whole situation does not pass the smell test.

To quote an america west pilot poster leonidas,

Quote from a wholly owned america west 4 year pilot to 20 plus Us Airways pilots click here.

If any Us Airways east pilot, not the wholly owned america west pilot, votes for alpa, you are the problem. Greed, Ive got mine, I need a base in the west and I am scared is no excuse. You are allowing an undercutting, scabbing, drunk flying and drug running america west pilot group, led by a drunk ceo, to dictate policy. If you vote alpa, sleep well tonight, coward.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Well, first off, 3,500 are thinking with their little heads and 2,000 aren't going to have much of a say in things. Thats just for starters...

Just when I thought we were agreeing. But "Little heads?" Excuse me?

I hope there will be many west folks who will participate to have "A say in things". But fail to participate and you just may be right.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I can appreciate what you said and how you voted. Hope you can appreciate mine.

Actually my level of trepidation will increase if we win. What I'm afraid of is leader burnout. These guys have been running wide open for 11 months now. Without the luxury of flight pay loss to make up for any lost pay for missing trips. So in effect they had to fly as much as possible and build USAPA. Lets just hope your fears remain unfounded.

Sure, I can appreciate your viewpoint and vote. Its true, to be where we are today did take a certain degree of conviction and stick-tuitiveness on the usapian leader's parts, but I think they have simply leveraged a large enough groups emotions as much as anything. We will see what they really built when it comes time to deliver, should usapa prevail.

No harm no foul, I think you are an ok joe.

 

[EastUS]

"All flight operations are now conducted under the East FAA operating certificate. Also on September 26, 2007, America West Holdings Corporation, West’s parent entity, became a wholly owned subsidiary of East, and West ceased to be a separate SEC registrant."

west, how did you save east, be specific please. Delta, United and Northwest took a trip through bk, all alpa carriers. Now if they chose a ceo with an alcohol problem, is that considered a save.

This whole situation does not pass the smell test.

To quote an america west pilot poster leonidas,

Quote from a wholly owned america west 4 year pilot to 20 plus Us Airways pilots click here.

"QUOTE (longing4piedmont @ Dec 14 2007, 08:16 PM)
Let me explain it to you this way.....

If I get on flight and there is some young puke form the west in the left seat and a senior East pilot in the right, the captain will get an ear full and I WILL walk off the plane"

"No you won't, you will shut up and get the captain his drink, peanuts and whatever else he tells you to do, that's a promise." And..THIS person calls people "clowns"?
Punch Line =longing4piedmont: "Shows how much you know....I'm a customer" Folks..you just can't make this kind of stuff up

Whew!..Now THERE'S a "tough guy"/true "professional" for sure...only a "Real Man" would verbally abuse any presumed FA...Words again fail me as to "professionalism"..or even basic decency towards other human beings. No real need to over-emphasize the other little "tough guys" that, in imagining ALL east pilots to be "Career First Officers" are chomping at the bit to offer crew abuse: "No you won't, When I say gear up, you just say Yes Captain"...Seriously; Where did you GET these "people"?..The bottom of some MESA crackerjack box? Did they have to win "First Prize" in some "Twisted-Ego-of-the-Week" contest?

"No you won't, you will shut up and get the captain his drink, peanuts and whatever else he tells you to do, that's a promise." Whew!. I'd cheerfully forgotten about that one..sheesh! Well?..at least some individuals' wholesale contempt for FA's also extends to..well..pretty much everyone else as well. = It's since been somewhat outshone by the famous: "I want the Captain seat...and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it". Rational and unemotional "Leadership" at it's finest I'd say. I say we give this fellow his "Captain seat" and a some FA's to bully around, and customers to alienate immediately...if not sooner.

A thought for the west = Airline "Captain" isn't any actual "Rank"...it's just being placed as a "Team Leader" in effect...that's IT...Period...it makes no one into some tiny little demigod, and you'll all do well to keep the crew-concept firmly in mind. If there's NOTHING else worthwhile that you can find in my months of ramblings herein..do pay attention to that last = It's CREW...not just YOU. An airliner's no place to be living out any "Tough-Guy-Pilot" fantasy. Aerial arena's to prove just exactly how "Tough" you are certainly exist..but; commercial/civil aviation's hardly one of them. For the hopefully, very few "Tough Guys" out there that the above includes: Do your crew and passengers a huge favor = Grow Up.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Just when I thought we were agreeing. But "Little heads?" Excuse me?

I hope there will be many west folks who will participate to have "A say in things". But fail to participate and you just may be right.

Just generalizing with the little head comment. But I do think that the reasonable people on the east will get shushed, likewise any westy who will try to participate.

 

[EastUS]

Just generalizing with the little head comment. But I do think that the reasonable people on the east will get shushed, likewise any westy who will try to participate.

Honestly..I do not believe that any such will prove the case, and I'd sincerely suggest making your thoughts and ideas known. It'll be difficult for any to have a proper "feel" for west thought..if all that's offered is beligerant BS and shouting matches...which wll help none of us.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Just generalizing with the little head comment. But I do think that the reasonable people on the east will get shushed, likewise any westy who will try to participate.

Understood. As for the west I can make no comment. But shushed? Maybe. I believe the USAPA structure will allow for greater participation than ever found with ALPA. At least east ALPA anyway.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

We will see what they really built when it comes time to deliver, should usapa prevail.

No harm no foul, I think you are an ok joe.

Ditto. Everything will be in place. It's what we do with it that is still "To be determined". However, I don't know who they are, but I understand there are quite a few guys willing to step up from the west when USAPA gets up and running. So like you said, I hope they don't get shushed also.

 

[nostradamus]

But I do think that the reasonable people on the east will get shushed, likewise any westy who will try to participate.

Reasonable people on the east "may" at this very moment, be writing a book about this subject.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

A thought for the west = Airline "Captain" isn't any actual "Rank"...it's just being placed as a "Team Leader" in effect...that's IT...Period...it makes no one into some tiny little demigod, and you'll all do well to keep the crew-concept firmly in mind. If there's NOTHING else worthwhile that you can find in my months of ramblings herein..do pay attention to that last = It's CREW...not just YOU. An airliner's no place to be living out any "Tough-Guy-Pilot" fantasy. Aerial arena's to prove just exactly how "Tough" you are certainly exist..but; commercial/civil aviation's hardly one of them. For the hopefully, very few "Tough Guys" out there that the above includes: Do your crew and passengers a huge favor = Grow Up.

From Flight Attendants everywhere...Thank You.

 

[ableoneable]

From Flight Attendants everywhere...Thank You.

Now EastUs and a flight attendant are not respecting my author - it - tie!

Outrageous.

p.s. I wear five stripes, four does not cut it.

 

[b737fo]

You are allowing an undercutting, scabbing, drunk flying and drug running america west pilot group, led by a drunk ceo, to dictate policy.

Wow that's a lot of adjectives. So which one best fits me Nos or am I just lumped in as "all of the above" by association? I guess if the latter is true then you will be right there with me when the 5500 pilots at LCC are one after this union debacle. LOL!

 

[Leonidas]

Truth About the MDA Decision
By:
US Airways MEC Communications Committee
ALPA Legal Department

Last week the U.S. District judge in New York dismissed the MDA lawsuit that was
filed in 2005 over the terms and conditions of employment of the MDA pilots. The
lawsuit contained several claims; the Court dismissed most of them because they were
time barred—that is, the statute of limitations had run out before their lawyer filed the
complaint. The Court dismissed several other claims on the merits.

The judge also allowed the plaintiffs to file a new supplemental complaint to make a
new duty of fair representation claim. The gist of this new claim is that the seniority list
submitted to Nicolau by the US Airways MEC Merger Committee was erroneous
because the MDA pilots should not have been designated as furloughed, and therefore
the Award should be overturned and damages awarded.

The response from the plaintiffs and USAPA supporters to the Court’s ruling is
amazing in its total disregard for the truth, as were the false rumors from vocal USAPA
supporters who said that ALPA had made a substantial settlement offer in that case.
They are now saying that the judge has found that ALPA violated its duty of fair
representation, opening the door to a multimillion-dollar recovery against ALPA. This
is false! The judge made NO such finding.

The judge ruled on two different aspects of the case. Concerning the MDA pilots’ claims
about their terms and conditions of employment, she dismissed those claims without
finding that they were true allegations. In her ruling, she did what the law requires her
to do at this state of the case: she assumed for the purposes of ALPA’s motion to
dismiss that the allegations are true and then decided whether such allegations should
stay in court. She said NO. Even if they were true (which she did not decide), they must
be (and were) dismissed.

The second aspect of the case was the request to file a complaint concerning the
seniority list submitted to Nicolau. The judge said that at this stage of the proceedings,
before discovery, when doubts have to be resolved in favor of the plaintiffs, she would
permit the complaint to be filed and discovery on this issue to go forward. And that is
all she did. She made NO factual findings regarding ALPA’s conduct except that the
plaintiffs would have a chance to make a case.

These USAPA supporters are ignoring the fundamental difference between filing a
lawsuit and winning a lawsuit (like the difference between organizing a union and
running one). They have been allowed to file a lawsuit—and that’s all. They will have
an extremely steep hill to climb to prove anything unlawful about the conduct of ALPA
or the US Airways MEC Merger Committee.

As we have pointed out, the MDA plaintiffs’ claims about an allegedly “erroneousâ€
seniority list are just not supported by the facts. ALPA lawyers are confident that after
some discovery and the submission of evidence to the judge, this case will be dismissed
on summary judgment. Those who are talking about a substantial monetary recovery
against ALPA are deluding themselves and not telling the truth to their fellow pilots.
Their statements are more examples of a pattern of communications about this case and
other matters that is either totally dishonest, totally ignorant—or both.

You deserve the truth and should demand it from those who profess to be concerned
about your career and your future.

 

[EastUS]

Now EastUs and a flight attendant are not respecting my author - it - tie!

Outrageous.

p.s. I wear five stripes, four does not cut it.

Arrrgh!...Not the Cartman police baton! Five stripes? Yikes! Seriously though?; "Political" differences aside...I just don't have you figured as one whom my "sage" diatribe was targeted towards You've clearly got a at least a few real "winners" out there...and we've admittedly got a small handfull that time and events haven't fully weeded out yet as well.