ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[lynyrdskynyrd]

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/arti...in_westchester/

You've got an attorney made of forged steel here. Say what you will about our gal, at least she can handle herself....herself. Kind of explains the Phx roadshow request for bathroom security. Funny thing though, I don't remember seeing any Zorros in the crowd.

 

[EastUS]

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/arti...in_westchester/

You've got an attorney made of forged steel here. Say what you will about our gal, at least she can handle herself....herself.

Oh yes..that was impressive and doubtless "Waaay-Bad-tough"..at least by AWA standards I guess.

I generally expect lawyers to be "somewhat less than heroic" by nature of their chosen professional path itself. I expect PILOTS to be people who can demonstrate immense degrees of self control in extremely stressfull enviornments up to and including actual combat...realizing that the last doesn't apply to civil aviation, but that's my thinking overall. No proper determination as to whether or not anyone's "made of forged steel" can ever be based on any BS-shouting session, and you would do well to avoid handing out many medals to your "ARMY" out there based only on being "tough" in any such BS-sessions If your belief is that virtually ANYONE shown in that mob-audience "handled themselves" well at all....we clearly have radically different expectations for people in general, and pilots in particular.

Tell me that you don't find the inherently contradictory absurdity within: "Treat us like professhunuhls...we're not f---kin' stooopid"??????...just for starters....sheesh! If you guys are actually proud of yourselves for that sad display of "profesionalism" out there...be it on your heads. Don't expect world-wide acclaim for your "Righteous Position" to result from it. All you've displayed, for the world to see, is a bunch of belligerant, perpetual adolescents on a rampage...all the while demonstrating how truly "professional" a sorry sub-segment of the airline pilots of this country are.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

There were a couple bone headed comments made from the audience, no doubt. But, as dumb as some of the comments were, the talent at the table didn't look any more impressive, at least to me.

I think many upset east pilots are looking at usapa and framing it up to represent what they would wish to happen, not what actually stands a chance. I think from time to time some of you guys even admit it, only it is hidden in the blustery "well at least it isn't the big bad crooked alpa....." routine.

 

[EastUS]

There were a couple bone headed comments made from the audience, no doubt. But, as dumb as some of the comments were, the talent at the table didn't look any more impressive, at least to me.

`

That last, I properly leave to your discretion to determine. We all must do our best thinking on such, and I'll never tell another "how to vote/etc". As for "a couple of bone-headed comments"?? Puhleeaze. Even your supposed "moderator" calls for decorum at one point, and then, immediately launches into a mult-minute, virtually hysterical, personal diatribe as one "Speaking for 1800 pilots" I've forwarded the links to many of my acquaintance, inside and out of aviation. The general consensus is best typified by one email ="You're joking?. Are these people really flying airline passengers around?" It must be understood that, outside of your group/cult/whatever...the entire world doesn't instantly "get" the presumed validity of your "Righteous Position" and instead, merely sees people who's behavior would get them ejected from any high school auditorium's proceedings.

No matter. We are where we are, and, barring any mystical event/sell-off/etc, will eventually need to work things out.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

`

That last, I properly leave to your discretion to determine. We all must do our best thinking on such, and I'll never tell another "how to vote/etc". As for "a couple of bone-headed comments"?? Puhleeaze. No matter. We are where we are, and, barring any mystical event/sell-off/etc, will eventually need to work things out.

You know, I'm not sure if I'm naieve or just stupid(or both), but I think this will work itself out, by hook or crook.

 

[EastUS]

You know, I'm not sure if I'm naieve or just stupid(or both), but I think this will work itself out, by hook or crook.

I hope you're correct sir..or..we'll both be proved hopelessly naieve, stupid and unrealistic It's going to be tough though...

PS: Your point's taken. ""well at least it isn't the big bad crooked alpa....." easilly sells to people who've seen nothing good from Alpa, for a very, very looong time, and do hope for better things in the future, which they know from sad experience..will NEVER come from Alpa. Time will tell, as it always does.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

There were a couple bone headed comments made from the audience, no doubt. But, as dumb as some of the comments were, the talent at the table didn't look any more impressive, at least to me.

I think many upset east pilots are looking at usapa and framing it up to represent what they would wish to happen, not what actually stands a chance. I think from time to time some of you guys even admit it, only it is hidden in the blustery "well at least it isn't the big bad crooked alpa....." routine.

Bone headed? Really? Say it ain't so.

You have to admit though, the interim leaders have done a remarkable job. Considering from zero in June '07 to Apr. 17th election cutoff. Eleven months. With 5 of those months tied up with the NMB. I would say that's pretty darn good. Just remember they are interim leaders.
Luckily they did not cower to almighty ALPA and the machine in Herndon.

Well your opinion on what is possibility and reality differs from mine. No big surprise there. You are right about one thing though, so long as it's not ALPA. That's not blustering.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Alpa makes me just as sick as it makes you. I voted Alpa of course, but should usapa win even I will get a little momentary charge out of showing those jokers, but it will be only momentary. You will probably get a charge for significantly longer, but in the end with usapa I fear we will all be hanging naked out in the breeze. Thats not bluster either, just a feeling.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You know, I'm not sure if I'm naieve or just stupid(or both), but I think this will work itself out, by hook or crook.

Geez. You and I agree again. What is that? 4 times in a 7 day day stretch? Holy cow, the world is stopping to take a look.

In all seriousness though, we have more in common than you might imagine. There is a solution and I hope calmer and saner heads will be heard. But we really need to find one, and soon.

 

[EastUS]

Alpa makes me just as sick as it makes you. I voted Alpa of course, but should usapa win even I will get a little momentary charge out of showing those jokers, but it will be only momentary. You will probably get a charge for significantly longer, but in the end with usapa I fear we will all be hanging naked out in the breeze. Thats not bluster either, just a feeling.

No "sales pitch" here, and any such would now be pointless, but: "I fear we will all be hanging naked out in the breeze." is a fully understood concern. What we've experienced out east from Alpa's a full confirmation over time, that we've always been in that condition. Beliefs to the contrary proved nothing but delusional in nature for us. Nic was an overwhelming "last straw". I had an FO become almost physically ill just from reading the "award" last May..no joke...and not the least bit of any "wimpy" person...the overall shock was that great for many. It's an issue of wholly different experiences and thusly, equally divergent perspectives.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Alpa makes me just as sick as it makes you. I voted Alpa of course, but should usapa win even I will get a little momentary charge out of showing those jokers, but it will be only momentary. You will probably get a charge for significantly longer, but in the end with usapa I fear we will all be hanging naked out in the breeze. Thats not bluster either, just a feeling.

I can appreciate what you said and how you voted. Hope you can appreciate mine.

Actually my level of trepidation will increase if we win. What I'm afraid of is leader burnout. These guys have been running wide open for 11 months now. Without the luxury of flight pay loss to make up for any lost pay for missing trips. So in effect they had to fly as much as possible and build USAPA. Lets just hope your fears remain unfounded.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Alpa makes me just as sick as it makes you. I voted Alpa of course, but should usapa win even I will get a little momentary charge out of showing those jokers, but it will be only momentary. You will probably get a charge for significantly longer, but in the end with usapa I fear we will all be hanging naked out in the breeze. Thats not bluster either, just a feeling.

It will get worked out. No question.

I wonder why you have the feeling that if USAPA wins we will be "hanging naked out in the breeze?" I have full confidence in the 5500 pilots of USAirways to determine their collective future at least as well as SWA, AA, and AirTran have done. The pilots of those carriers are not as a group any more knowledgeable, skilled or talented than we are. Why do you feel that we are "naked" when we have those unions as models of what independent pilot unions can accomplish.

And now that the federal government has taken the bogeyman from any scenario involving the merging of our independent union pilots with an ALPA-represented carrier, I think that being independent is a huge plus in the long run if USAirways is bought.

Assuming USAPA wins, my nightmare is that we will later on merge with another carrier which is ALPA-represented and end up back in ALPA by default getting our blood sucked once again by those mother-ship mothers.

 

[nostradamus]

STATEMENT OF FACTS
A. Corporate Transactions
US Airways, its parent company US Airways Group, Inc., and three affiliated companies, emerged from bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 of the United States bankruptcy code on September 27, 2005.* That same day, pursuant to the US Airways’ plan of reorganization, US Airways Group, Inc. consummated a transaction in which it acquired America West Holdings Corporation and its subsidiary America West Airlines.
On September 26, 2007, West surrendered its Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) operating certificate. All flight operations are now conducted under the East FAA operating certificate. Also on September 26, 2007, America West Holdings Corporation, West’s parent entity, became a wholly owned subsidiary of East, and West ceased to be a separate SEC registrant.


Why the separate atc call signs?

NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD The investigation establishes that East and West constitute a single transportation system.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It will get worked out. No question.
Why do you feel that we are "naked" when we have those unions as models of what independent pilot unions can accomplish.

Well, first off, 3,500 are thinking with their little heads and 2,000 aren't going to have much of a say in things. Thats just for starters...

 

[EastUS]

Well, first off, 3,500 are thinking with their little heads and 2,000 aren't going to have much of a say in things. Thats just for starters...

One "might" make the opposite argument, given that said 3500 have seen Alpa in "action" for a great deal longer then said 2000 have....It might further be noted that the smaller group's behavior's demonstrably far more indicative of emotional overloading, versus rational thought (Booshaka!...You won't even get 200 cards!....Ho ho ho!..St nic is coming to town!!!/etc, ad nauseum) but...we all have our perceptions, based upon our respective experiences. "Treat us like professhunuhls..we're not f---in' stoopid", and too numerous to note other "cute" outbursts/avatars of "USAPASUX".."cute" little cartoon boys urinating/etc, not too mention some toy "ARMY" of ferocious sticker-pasters.... truly argues poorly for any potential good faith assumption of much in-depth, collective "thought" out west on the whole....Both "sides" have full reasons for mutual mistrust, and I won't even address respect.

Regardless: We are where we are..and we'll have to work on it.