ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[AAA73Pilot]

Harrumph!. Of course we took their dues money!! That's never meant that we really have had to actually represent anyone before!!........... Go get 'em MDA people!!

I think there is a lot of "harrumphing" going on in Herndon.

The propaganda just keeps getting better and better. 2 more letters today! Thank goodness I'm going to work soon so I won't be the one dragging it all in. Maybe next week they will send a toaster oven.

Maybe it's just me, but so far all the e-mails, letters and other garbage is just peripheral fluff. The hierarchy of their importance has been moved up to the absurd. Oh well.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

USAPA, President’s Message
April 02, 2008

Effort and Motivation

Fellow Pilots,

As we are now midway through the NMB voting period, I would like to take some time and share some thoughts with you. I am sure that many of our pilots have already voted, but I am equally confident that some pilots remain undecided. As we come down the home stretch in this union representational election, I think an accounting of the election campaign is in order.

When viewing the overall election campaign, it brings to mind one of the guiding principals of why USAPA is here in the first place: Single Carrier Representation vs. Multi Carrier Representation.

ALPA has put forward a tremendous effort in order to retain the representational rights of the US Airways pilots. We have seen an expensive array of countless documents, pamphlets, emails, web casts and videos all supporting ALPA’s position in this election. The glaring question is where was this effort when we spearheaded bankruptcy post 9/11? Where was this effort when we spearheaded pension terminations?

Do I blame ALPA for the predicaments that the US Airways pilots had found themselves in – of course not. But it is clear to only the casual observer that ALPA’s efforts to assist the US Airways pilots during our most difficult hours, doesn’t come even close to ALPA’s effort in this election. Imagine what might have happened if ALPA expended the effort and resources towards the US Airways pilots in their time of need, as they are doing today.

This brings the question of motivation to the forefront and highlights the all important issue of Single Carrier Representation vs. Multi Carrier Representation. Unions are a democracy as they should be, and ALPA is no exception. In addition to ALPA’s lack of effort towards the US Airways pilots noted above, there are other glaring examples where the US Airways pilot’s careers were sacrificed under the banner of multi-carrier representation. In 1991, ALPA’s Constitution allowed a special interest group to change what had been decades of merger policy to protect themselves against the likes of TWA, Pan AM and oh yes, US Airways. Later in that decade, United finished the job solely to protect themselves from the US Airways pilots.

Expanding on multi carrier representation, all that happens inside a union today happens using inside advisor's such as financial and legal. Without going into specific issues such as ALPA’s financial team not being able to verify US Airways management’s numbers during the pension termination process, all ALPA’s advisor's and attorneys are paid for by ALPA National in Washington, and also report directly to their supervisors in Washington. Yes, that means US Airways ALPA pilot’s full time attorneys and staff in Pittsburgh report directly to ALPA National in Washington. Has this provided the representation that the US Airways pilots needed in the past? More importantly, is this the type of representation we need in the future?

ALPA was founded during the times of a regulated industry with very limited competition, which allowed for great co-operation. Now, in a highly competitive environment, the conflicting interests of very large to very small carriers and the ever increasing influence of regional carriers, leaves the organization paralyzed. The most likely remedy would be Constitutional changes de-centralizing the organization, permitting such things as carrier specific advisor's and legal staff, being paid by and reporting solely to their specific MEC. With approximately 400 ALPA staff employees, with a large percentage earning over 150 thousand a year, the non-pilot management of ALPA simply will do all it can to avoid such changes, as necessary changes will affect ALPA dues distribution and ALPA staff jobs.

On another issue, there is an overwhelming amount of election rhetoric being put forward. Much of ALPA’s communications is designed to cast doubt and create fear of making a change. Let me bullet point a few election issues:

· We have clearly stated our position on seniority issues, including durability, next merger and our vulnerability in the future under the ALPA banner. We have also stated our position concerning ALPA’s crafty worded position on indefinite separate operations vs. permanent separate operations.

· We have clearly stated our position on contract issues and the impediments that ALPA brings to the process. A ‘cost neutral’ contract are words only uttered by CEO Doug Parker and ALPA supporters, used only for campaign rhetoric. We are confident the US Airways pilots know what they’re worth.

· USAPA’s Safety Committee is staffed with US Airways pilots who have years of professional safety experience, and who understand all the resources available to them. There is also a Safety/Incident /Accident - Emergency Notification System in place starting on Day one.

· USAPA has an Aeromedical Plan administered by Harvey Watt and Company. With 57 years of experience in this field, Harvey Watt and Company has offered premium insurance services long before ALPA.

· On other insurance issues, for those holding ALPA Life, AD&D or LOL insurance, you are guaranteed issue into USAPA's products, no physical, no underwriting, no exceptions. Additionally, a change in unions has no effect on your LTD benefits.

As you can imagine, a bullet point list can be endless. Let me close by stating, as I have in the past, the talent and energy inside the US Airways pilot group never ceases to amaze me. USAPA has a better way: US Airways pilots determining their own needs. I am confident that the US Airways pilots are fully competent to guide themselves into the future, and that together, we will join the other successful independent labor unions in the piloting profession.

Fraternally,

Interim USAPA President

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I think there is a lot of "harrumphing" going on in Herndon.

The propaganda just keeps getting better and better. 2 more letters today! Thank goodness I'm going to work soon so I won't be the one dragging it all in. Maybe next week they will send a toaster oven.

Maybe it's just me, but so far all the e-mails, letters and other garbage is just peripheral fluff. The hierarchy of their importance has been moved up to the absurd. ALPA just doesn't get it.

Oh, the one today made me wanna hurl. On the front "Think about your family" with some wrinkly hag looking out into the sky. Then on the back some douchebag touting the "benefits" of ALPO. What a joke! Think about my family, aye? Hey with 20 plus years people have EARNED the right to good schedules and time off with their families. You honestly think some skank with 4 years deserves to go ahead of someone with 22 years! Give me a break! You westies need to get a grip and understand why the Nicolau ruling has led to so much disruption.

Later,
Eye

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You honestly think some skank with 4 years deserves to go ahead of someone with 22 years! Give me a break! You westies need to get a grip and understand why the Nicolau ruling has led to so much disruption.

Later,
Eye

More like "I want it all and I want it yesterday". It was a rant to behold though. Got to give her credit though, at least she didn't pass out from lack of oxygen.

I said many months ago that I thought this whole thing was scripted. The only part that wasn't was our reaction to it.

 

[EastUS]

More like "I want it all and I want it yesterday". It was a rant to behold though. Got to give her credit though, at least she didn't pass out from lack of oxygen.

I said many months ago that I thought this whole thing was scripted. The only part that wasn't was our reaction to it.

By our assuming some mutual paradigm that acknowledges the worth of other human beings, at any level, as being a logical neccessity, well; we are all perhaps just being a bit "small minded" in all this, . Given the seemingly wild notions within contemporary physics , wherein alternate, and even overlapping entire universes may exist; It's likely that in some bizarre little sector of space, there actually exists a place wherein pure and unadultered self-interest and outright greed's actually perceived as being the pinnacle of virtue.....Oh!..waitta' minute: Leonidas of the AWA "Righteous Position" Cult, and many others out west have already provided experi-Mental data: "I want the captain seat.....and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". Sigh..it seems that such a place does indeed, actually exist.......

I agree that the mentioned rant/whine was truly an "impressive" display, but; my favorite-to-date's still a one-liner from the "audience"/mob = "Treat us like professhunuls...we're not fu--in' stoopid". How could one even begin to argue with that? I almost lost a full draught of coffee hearing that one Oh well; despite all the mutual "respect"..it'll be necessary to work things out...eventually.

PS: "Maybe next week they will send a toaster oven. " Not a chance...that might actually be something usefull.

 

[CactusFlyr]

You honestly believe that anyone that was not even on the property (FURLOUGHED) on the day of the merger should ever have a job while the one that brought that job is on the street??? Priceless. See, I can do it too.

 

[EastUS]

You honestly believe that anyone that was not even on the property (FURLOUGHED) on the day of the merger should ever have a job while the one that brought that job is on the street??? Priceless. See, I can do it too.

No problem "Priceless": What's your take on the US-MDA pilots just for starters? = "Furloughed"??...and thusly "We're not Worthy!" versus the lowest time AWA, still on probationary status?

BTW: "See, I can do it too.", while undoubtably, easily admired out west as being a razor-sharp and rapid riposte, is not likely to be ever seen as much of a viable "argument" in even the most rudimentary philosophy class. That's right up there in the hallowed halls of devastating brilliance with such classics as; "Treat us like professhunuls..we're not f---kin' stoopid"..etc.

 

[b737fo]

That's right up there in the hallowed halls of devastating brilliance with such classics as; "Treat us like professhunuls..we're not f---kin' stoopid"..etc.

Don't forget the other brilliant classics like: "I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA." or Mark King saying "Do you think we would tell you that today?" on a representational question.
Or better yet my personal favorite Lee Seham saying: "cost neutral fix that's going to buy you labor peace" at the PHL roadshow.

Those are my nominees at least.

 

[EastUS]

Don't forget the other brilliant classics like: "I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA." or Mark King saying "Do you think we would tell you that today?" on a representational question.
Or better yet my personal favorite Lee Seham saying: "cost neutral fix that's going to buy you labor peace" at the PHL roadshow.

Those are my nominees at least.

We all have our cherished memories I'll guess that any/all will have to search long and hard to beat the collective yapping effects from your puppies though; Leonidas: "I want the captain seat.....and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". I'm naturally still fond of such classics as "You won't even get 200 cards!!!" and of course: "Send the cards..I DARE you!!"...The list is really far too long now to address properly. One notable point to make is that "you guys" haven't yet been right in any/all of your future projections...even ONCE!. I realize that observation clearly constitutes no argument against maintaining your group/cult "beliefs"...sigh. No matter: It's good for all of us to at least be able to find grins in all this.

 

[nostradamus]

Mark King saying "Do you think we would tell you that today?" on a representational question.

Mark King was also quoted on the you tube talking to your america west pilots, if he was planning on editing the tape USAPA was making of the meeting.

Mark responded by saying, "Do you want me to edit out all the parts about you guys giving the finger to us while we are trying to talk."

america west pilot "professionals" giving the finger two or three at a time, alpa's best.

 

[EastUS]

Mark King was also quoted on the you tube talking to your america west pilots, if he was planning on editing the tape USAPA was making of the meeting.

Mark responded by saying, "Do you want me to edit out all the parts about you guys giving the finger to us while we are trying to talk."

america west pilot "professionals" giving the finger two or three at a time, alpa's best.

Well...don't all meetings of "professional" groups go like that? Hmmmm...come to think of it, and considering any/all sorts of various association's meetings I've attended over time; I've NEVER personally seen such pathetic behavior such as that which shows up on the tape clips. I must need to get out more I guess. One might charitably assume that the AWA group would be ashamed of the sad display..and one would be wrong. Instead; they're putting up micro-bits for all the world to see..so, as amazing as it might seem..they're clearly proud of themselves for displaying "professional decorum" that would embarrass any even semi-decently behaved angry teenagers...or even striped-arsed baboons for that matter. I must suppose that such professional type "thought" goes along with having some imaginary little "ARMY" to play with out there...along with the other sad victims of arrested development syndrome.

"Treat us like professhunuhls...we're not fu--in' stooopid". Words truly fail me.....

 

[end_of_alpa]

Don't forget the other brilliant classics like: "I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA." or Mark King saying "Do you think we would tell you that today?" on a representational question.
Or better yet my personal favorite Lee Seham saying: "cost neutral fix that's going to buy you labor peace" at the PHL roadshow.

Those are my nominees at least.

Well, you're guys will cross a USAPA picket line....go to the ALPA webboards and ask those whom I won't name here, not because I'm afraid to, but it is simply beneath my dignity to stoop so low.

Just calling it like I see it.....won't join USAPA means you don't support the union.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Or better yet my personal favorite Lee Seham saying: "cost neutral fix that's going to buy you labor peace" at the PHL roadshow.

He did NOT say "cost neutral CONTRACT". He was only talking about methods to combine the lists. HUGE DIFFERENCE! Try to put whatever spin on it you want, what you're implying was not what he meant by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[nostradamus]

america west alpa pilot leader quote, 2008.

"That said, I think it is important that this pilot group, from the most senior to the most junior, recognize that there is a very tangible threat on the horizon to our collective careers. That threat is called USAPA. Do not underestimate this threat or the impact that the AWA group can have against that threat if we act in a unified, cohesive manner.

In closing, I want to thank you for your support. Please make sure to cast your vote for ALPA when you get your ballot.

As always, continue to fly safely and securely"

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman



mcilvenna future usairways alpa pilot leader in 2012 trying to rally the troops;

"I think it is important that this pilot group, from the most senior to the most junior,

Yes you senior pilots hired in 2004 to you most junior pilots hired in 1989.............."

hypocrite award to johnny appleseed

 

[fr8tmastr]

He did NOT say "cost neutral CONTRACT". He was only talking about methods to combine the lists. HUGE DIFFERENCE! Try to put whatever spin on it you want, what you're implying was not what he meant by any stretch of the imagination.

Sure, that's true but it sounds much better if you pound your chest, take it out of context and spin it to further your agenda.