ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[ableoneable]

Let the whipsawing begin.

Allen Hemenway, V.P. Labor relations, sent a letter to both MECs outlining the company's thoughts on the China airplanes.

"...the Company expressed our view that, because these aircraft were not on order by US or HP at the time of Transition Agreement and because they are not in excess of the number identified for that airline in Attachment B to the Transision Agreement (II-B-5), these aircraft can be placed into service by the Company as either East or West replacement.

Of course, if A330-200 aircraft are introduced at West, the Company would be under the obligation to negotiate with West ALPA over rates for that aircraft type, and we envision that those negotiations would be with West only. This is not an issue on the East, because the aircraft is not 'new equipment' under the East agreement."

I am sure this letter is available via the ALPA site. I have it via an e-mail attachment and can't post it.

 

[b737fo]

Well..We most certainly didn't ever get ANY "support" from the west "Fellow Pilots" in Alpo, so I guess we'll never know....

In any case; That was then..This is now. It's time for some changes.

Let's not distort reality Mr. EastUS. To say that the West did not give ANY support is not accurate. The West MEC was in full support and agreed with the East MEC stance on positive space travel for union travel.

 

[EastUS]

.... the Company would be under the obligation to negotiate with West ALPA over rates for that aircraft type, and we envision that those negotiations would be with West only. This is not an issue on the East, because the aircraft is not 'new equipment' under the East agreement."

Firstly; From any wholly innapropriate "It's ALL about ME!!" perspective; I could personally care less where the planes go myself, but, it's interesting that you envision a "West Alpa" as an isolated entity. Doesn't that go entirely opposite to all the continuous FUD claiming that there's some fabulous, great big "UNITED ALPA"?..that prohibits lessor groups from suffering the trauma of "isolation"? What role do you envison for the Mighty Mother Ship of Alpo in all this? It can't be true that you're seriously asserting, or even implying, that it's, in ANY way, actually beneficial for pilot groups to represent only their own best interests, and not those of any larger collective? :blink:

 

[EastUS]

"Let's not distort reality Mr. EastUS. To say that the West did not give ANY support is not accurate. The West MEC was in full support and agreed with the East MEC stance on positive space travel for union travel."

I'll necessarilly assume that was offered toungue-in-cheek, and respond in kind.

Gosh!..you're right!!. That awesome measure of "full support" for all the "fellow pilots" suffering inferior pay rates/etc, had somehow earlier escaped me. Umm..it couldn't be that they were merely concerned only with themselves, and their fellow Alpoid shills?..Just a thought

 

[ableoneable]

Firstly; From any wholly innapropriate "It's ALL about ME!!" perspective; I could personally care less where the planes go myself, but, it's interesting that you envision a "West Alpa" as an isolated entity. Doesn't that go entirely opposite to all the continuous FUD claiming that there's some fabulous, great big "UNITED ALPA"?..that prohibits lessor groups from suffering the trauma of "isolation"? What role do you envison for the Mighty Mother Ship of Alpo in all this? It can't be true that you're seriously asserting, or even implying, that it's, in ANY way, actually beneficial for pilot groups to represent only their own best interests, and not those of any larger collective? :blink:

To quote from Animal House; "Man, you're dumb."

"West ALPA" is not my characterization. Everything between the "" is a direct quote from Hemmenway's letter. "West ALPA" is the company's characterization, not mine. I offered it without comment.

 

[EastUS]

To quote from Animal House; "Man, you're dumb."

"West ALPA" is not my characterization. Everything between the "" is a direct quote from Hemmenway's letter. I offered it without comment.

"Without comment" as well as clearly without the slightest clue of the contained implications. "Whipsawing" in this instance, shouldn't be your largest concern. "West ALPA" is not my characterization." Ummm..sure seems to be the company's though... In the absence of any actually functional CBA/Union..look for such types of interesting company games to begin. No matter = April's around the corner.

"To quote from Animal House; "Man, you're dumb." Sigh...I'll just have to live with that I guess...sigh again.

 

[b737fo]

"Let's not distort reality Mr. EastUS. To say that the West did not give ANY support is not accurate. The West MEC was in full support and agreed with the East MEC stance on positive space travel for union travel."

I'll necessarilly assume that was offered toungue-in-cheek, and respond in kind.

Gosh!..you're right!!. That awesome measure of "full support" for all the "fellow pilots" suffering inferior pay rates/etc, had somehow earlier escaped me. Umm..it couldn't be that they were merely concerned only with themselves, and their fellow Alpoid shills?..Just a thought

You know what they say about assumptions right?

I was just merely trying to show the rhetoric at worst or inaccurate statement at best that you put out on this forum. Kind of like when others here started the accusations of full time FPL for the ACPC committee members. Oh well. At least anyone with intelligence would know this a place in which accuracy falls second to opinion. No one could base their upcoming vote on just the FUD that both sides put out on USAviation right?

36 days and counting......

 

[hp_fa]

Well..We most certainly didn't ever get ANY "support" from the west "Fellow Pilots" in Alpo, so I guess we'll never know....

In any case; That was then..This is now. It's time for some changes.

I would simply ask what support you believe you should have received, especially after the lawsuit against West and the Nicolau decision?

 

[EastUS]

You know what they say about assumptions right?

I was just merely trying to show the rhetoric at worst or inaccurate statement at best that you put out on this forum. Kind of like when others here started the accusations of full time FPL for the ACPC committee members. Oh well. At least anyone with intelligence would know this a place in which accuracy falls second to opinion. No one could base their upcoming vote on just the FUD that both sides put out on USAviation right?

36 days and counting......

Fully agreed there. Umm..except for the bit about ACPC people, numbers of which are snuffling about the ALPA trough.

 

[ableoneable]

"Without comment" as well as clearly without the slightest clue of the contained implications. "Whipsawing" in this instance, shouldn't be your largest concern. "West ALPA" is not my characterization." Ummm..sure seems to be the company's though... In the absence of any actually functional CBA/Union..look for such types of interesting company games to begin. No matter = April's around the corner.

"To quote from Animal House; "Man, you're dumb." Sigh...I'll just have to live with that I guess...sigh again.

You have become so used to attacking the messenger that you are attacking me for 'West ALPA' when I never uttered the phrase. It was not my letter it was the company's.

"Um.. sure seems to be the company's though..." Yes, exactly, it is. It is their quote, not mine. I do not see your point.

 

[EastUS]

I would simply ask what support you believe you should have received, especially after the lawsuit against West and the Nicolau decision?

At the time of the merger, any "union" worthy of the name would have been moving mountains to gain equal conditions for the respective groups. Naturally, any "management" worthy of the title wouldn't have intentionally disregarded any/all basic precepts of what's Right either..but, that's another issue entirely around here.

After Nic? Pretty much all I've ever seen from the west's been gleefull variations of "Live on LOA93 Forever!!"/etc... If the east wants any "help" from anyone around here...we'd best look nowhere other than into our own mirrors...which we have.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You have to sorta get used that modus operandi because I don't see any evidence it'll change, ableonable. It's an amusing little semantic trick to seize on a word or two and twist the context used in an attempt to mock and insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees. You gotta admit - it takes some intelligence to do it so consistently....

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Fully agreed there. Umm..except for the bit about ACPC people, numbers of which are snuffling about the ALPA trough.

Yes. I wonder whet the illustrious "bus tour" of shame is costing the membership?

 

[b737fo]

Fully agreed there. Umm..except for the bit about ACPC people, numbers of which are snuffling about the ALPA trough.

Not the West ACPC members I looked up. They are on a trough free diet and flying their trips. So it doesn't seem to be an ALPA (or as you would say ALPO) problem.

 

[hp_fa]

At the time of the merger, any "union" worthy of the name would have been moving mountains to gain equal conditions for the respective groups. Naturally, any "management" worthy of the title wouldn't have intentionally disregarded any/all basic precepts of what's Right either..but, that's another issue entirely around here.

Didn't the East pilots, as part of BK2, come to an agreement with the then management as part of BK2? That agreement was very fresh at the time of the merger announcement. But don't I recall, and I may be wrong, that the new management offered East the West contract if they so chose?

I know East didn't want the West contract, but with the new amenable date of the East contract what motivation did the Company have to negotiate anew with East, other than to offer them the West contract or West the East contract as they stood. Also, haven't the West guys been taking it in the shorts because their contract was amenable and the Company has basically said that they don't want to negotiate anything with just West?