ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[AAA73Pilot]

My point is USAirways management has no incentive whatsoever to budge off LOA 93. In fact, they may even think it is so industry standard that the West pilots should enjoy its largesse as well.

You may be right. Like you said the environment for improvements by either bargaining unit will be extremely difficult.

Or worse, LOA93 pay rates, work rules could become the company standard. Points to the flawed TA for starters. Too bad when the east tried or was trying for parity equal to the west, our west posters told us to pound sand. Get back to the JNC. Junebug and AWA320 especially said it was going to be their leverage. Oops It may come back to bite them. Pay cut for the west and pay raise for the east with a starting point of LOA93. Not a pretty scenario to dwell on. Hope it doesn't happen.

 

[b737fo]

You may be right. Like you said the environment for improvements by either bargaining unit will be extremely difficult.

Or worse, LOA93 pay rates, work rules could become the company standard. Points to the flawed TA for starters. Too bad when the east tried or was trying for parity equal to the west, our west posters told us to pound sand. Get back to the JNC. Junebug and AWA320 especially said it was going to be their leverage. Oops It may come back to bite them. Pay cut for the west and pay raise for the east with a starting point of LOA93. Not a pretty scenario to dwell on. Hope it doesn't happen.

Seems very doubtful that an organization that touts the financial benefits of an independent union would negotiate such a contract that you envision in your post. After all that seems to be one of the arguments being made here. How would I really know what USAPA can offer though? Nine days to the election and not a word from USAPA who wants to "represent East and West fairly". What a big joke!!!

 

[end_of_alpa]

MEC Leader OUT OF TOUCH:

"Stephan expects reason, and ALPA, to triumph over emotion. "Pilots have been trained to make ice cold, calculating decisions," he says. "If an engine conks out, you first come out with a bunch of expletives. But then you remove the emotion and methodically follow the checklist. And you make a decision that may not be what your gut tells you to do, but what you feel you have to do."

http://www.thestreet.com/s/us-airways-pilo...c=cnnmoney&

Jack doesn't get it. And somehow, CONTRARY to what he alludes to, the pilots here, for probably the very first times in their careers, CAN make a difference. The pilots have removed the emotion (and as far as I know in all MY years in this industry, no one has made any "expletives" when they lose an engine). The USAPA roadshows that are on going ARE successful. There WILL be a USAPA road show coming to PHX, most likely in the next two weeks. Everyones schedules are tight, but it will be accomplished.

I know how many of the West pilots here on the forum feel, but if you are truly not interested in attending, that is your choice.

I would ENCOURAGE you to attend so you can speak FIRST HAND to pilots just like you, whether you love them or hate them.....because the failure of ALPA here has to do with POOR leadership from ALPA National, the East MEC and the West MEC....all of THEM are the political system all of us had to endure.

Then, if you WANT to post here, NEGATIVELY or POSITIVELY, you will definitely have bragging rights and to that none of us can deny. The times are achange-in and we either change WITH them or get rolled over by them, but there is no stopping change, only post-poning the inevitable. The East pilots hope you all show up at the road-show.

 

[BoeingBoy]

AAA737 and EastUS - you do recall that the 190 pay rates are part of the transition agreement? They weren't part of one of those "here's the outline, we'll fill in the details after the vote" agreements with lots of "TBD" sections.

East - you can add this to the list of "failures" - the MEC (East) never communicated comprehensively with the pilots unless it was in the MEC's interest. If one wanted to be well informed on the issues, due diligence was required by the individual pilot. Spoon feeding comprehensive info was almost never a MEC trait, but spoon feeding selective info to support the MEC's position definitely was.

Jim

 

[JetMonkey]

You may be right. Like you said the environment for improvements by either bargaining unit will be extremely difficult.

Or worse, LOA93 pay rates, work rules could become the company standard. Points to the flawed TA for starters. Too bad when the east tried or was trying for parity equal to the west, our west posters told us to pound sand. Get back to the JNC. Junebug and AWA320 especially said it was going to be their leverage. Oops It may come back to bite them. Pay cut for the west and pay raise for the east with a starting point of LOA93. Not a pretty scenario to dwell on. Hope it doesn't happen.

Even if you guys got the support from the west (which I personaly didn't have a problem with) for parity, it still wouldn't made any difference. Parker would still have thumbed his nose at you guys.

 

[JetMonkey]

I spend a fair amount of time there and haven't seen that. I have, however, personally seen USAPA guys ejected from the CLT crew area though, for merely discussing things.

In any case: The company's on record and has notified the pilots that neither side shall have access. Check your "mailbox".

How do you explain a new hire handing out yellow lanyards to a new hire class? I call it "brainwashed" personally. :blink:

 

[AAA73Pilot]

AAA737 and EastUS - you do recall that the 190 pay rates are part of the transition agreement? They weren't part of one of those "here's the outline, we'll fill in the details after the vote" agreements with lots of "TBD" sections.

East - you can add this to the list of "failures" - the MEC (East) never communicated comprehensively with the pilots unless it was in the MEC's interest. If one wanted to be well informed on the issues, due diligence was required by the individual pilot. Spoon feeding comprehensive info was almost never a MEC trait, but spoon feeding selective info to support the MEC's position definitely was.

Jim

I'll make it simple for you too. The pilot group, through their collective votes, approved the company proposal that became LOA 93, the pay rates for the E190, the outsourcing of the E170 (with loss of 50% of the jobs held by furloughees/CEL pilots), the outsoucing of CRJ-700 flying, the cessation of the assessment to pay for medical coverage for furloughed pilots without such coverage. And that was just in the last 2-3 years leading up to the merger.

I guess I missed the comma after LOA93. My bad putting the pay rates there. The 190 pay was part of the TA. Fine. Where was my direct vote for that? As it pertains the changes to pay, working conditions, etc etc. ALPA's structure allowed for that.

I'll add it to the failures for East. And nothing is going to change that opinion.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

AAA737 and EastUS - you do recall that the 190 pay rates are part of the transition agreement? They weren't part of one of those "here's the outline, we'll fill in the details after the vote" agreements with lots of "TBD" sections.

East - you can add this to the list of "failures" - the MEC (East) never communicated comprehensively with the pilots unless it was in the MEC's interest. If one wanted to be well informed on the issues, due diligence was required by the individual pilot. Spoon feeding comprehensive info was almost never a MEC trait, but spoon feeding selective info to support the MEC's position definitely was.

Jim

Yea. The membership had to get the news from all those "closed" sessions from the likes of A320Pilot. MOST of the important stuff was handled in closed sessions, and very little info as to how or why they decided the issues was ever communicated to the rank-and-file members. The members have been suspicious of the MEC's motives for years, and they do nothing to improve it, like not even allowing a vote on most issues.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

How do you explain a new hire handing out yellow lanyards to a new hire class? I call it "brainwashed" personally. :blink:

I call it "brilliant"!!

 

[end_of_alpa]

How do you explain a new hire handing out yellow lanyards to a new hire class? I call it "brainwashed" personally. :blink:

How about "intelligent design"?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Seems very doubtful that an organization that touts the financial benefits of an independent union would negotiate such a contract that you envision in your post. After all that seems to be one of the arguments being made here. How would I really know what USAPA can offer though? Nine days to the election and not a word from USAPA who wants to "represent East and West fairly". What a big joke!!!

You and I have no clue what will be negotiated. We can speculate all day long though. In my cited reply post I am facing reality. You on the other hand are tossing FUD. An independent union will run cheaper if operating under the same conditions as ALPA.

There is plenty of information out there to educate yourself. I would suggest you get involved to research that information. If you rely on this web board as your only source, good luck to you. From my perspective, the joke is ALPA and how they are trying to spin their failures into an asset.

 

[JetMonkey]

How bout a waste of plastic and nylon. They can't vote yet and a new hire sure as hell is not going to influence someone who's still deciding.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Where was my direct vote for that?

That's what prompted the suggestion that the issue might be a better criteria for requiring a membership vote then whether a roll call vote occurred at the "MEC". The transition agreement changed numerous sections of the contract but only one change was voted on by the pilots - the 190 pay.

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

....... like not even allowing a vote on most issues.

Be careful, Boeing Boy says we did vote on all those issues through our elected reps. What a crock. All that is going to change very soon.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

That's what prompted the suggestion that the issue might be a better criteria for requiring a membership vote then whether a roll call vote occurred at the "MEC". The transition agreement changed numerous sections of the contract but only one change was voted on by the pilots - the 190 pay.

Jim

What vote was that after the TA? To my knowledge the only vote I participated in after the TA was signed, was the assessment vote in early '07. Refresh my memory then. What specific vote occurred after the TA affecting pay rates and do you have the results?