ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[ableoneable]

BTW EastUS, let's review how we got to the point that the company is talking about talking to 'West ALPA' separately.

The company approaches ALPA about negotiating a China sideletter through the JNC process because they need duty time relief from the East and payrates/workrules from the west. AWA MEC says OK. East MEC says no to JNC talks. They insist that since the company wants to amend the LOA93 duty limitations the company must negotiate with the East exclusively.

Your assignment; Spin this so it is the fault of A.) ALPA national, B.) The AWA MEC. C.) My Fault.

GO!

 

[ableoneable]

At the time of the merger, any "union" worthy of the name would have been moving mountains to gain equal conditions for the respective groups. Naturally, any "management" worthy of the title wouldn't have intentionally disregarded any/all basic precepts of what's Right either..but, that's another issue entirely around here.

After Nic? Pretty much all I've ever seen from the west's been gleefull variations of "Live on LOA93 Forever!!"/etc... If the east wants any "help" from anyone around here...we'd best look nowhere other than into our own mirrors...which we have.

Here we agree.

The transition agreement should have called for pay parity after a fixed period of time, say 12 to 18 months. This was discussed. However, had this occurred the TA would have also called for the arbitrated seniority list to go into effect when the arbitration was concluded. I predict that had this happened you would have had a heart attack.

 

[EastUS]

Not the West ACPC members I looked up. They are on a trough free diet and flying their trips. So it doesn't seem to be an ALPA (or as you would say ALPO) problem.

I honestly imagine that a less developed Alpo = trough attitude exists out west. Your guys haven't had the years of "association" experience needed to develop serious "lifers". "Ours" have had plenty of time to even go so far as often ferreting out "retirement bunks" up at Herndon. It's really no surprise, but considerable differences exist east-west in many areas.

 

[EastUS]

Here we agree.

The transition agreement should have called for pay parity after a fixed period of time, say 12 to 18 months. This was discussed. However, had this occurred the TA would have also called for the arbitrated seniority list to go into effect when the arbitration was concluded. I predict that had this happened you would have had a heart attack.

Why some arbitrary figure of 12-18 months that still would have denied any semblance of fair treatment for all that time? As for any Alpa-induced cardiac issues...that would have happened far earlier over the "We just instantly tossed your ENTIRE pension away, based upon BS ALPA "intelligence" and "advice", and mostly from sheer FEAR, and NO!..You can't be trusted to VOTE on anything to do with this.......Aren't we smart?" incident. Ah well...What's well over a million bucks thrown away amongst friends?

 

[EastUS]

You have to sorta get used that modus operandi because I don't see any evidence it'll change, ableonable. It's an amusing little semantic trick to seize on a word or two and twist the context used in an attempt to mock and insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees. You gotta admit - it takes some intelligence to do it so consistently....

Jim

Good of you to notice sir

It's not meanly meant as "an attempt to mock and insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees", but rather to hopefully highlight an obvious, and often enourmous divergence in the perceived validity of the presented assumptions and beliefs. Whatever else is true of these current times: It serves us all well to do a great deal of thinking .....

 

[BoeingBoy]

hopefully highlight an obvious, and often enourmous divergence in the perceived validity of the presented assumptions and beliefs.

Now that was good for a laugh.....

Jim

 

[EastUS]

BTW EastUS, let's review how we got to the point that the company is talking about talking to 'West ALPA' separately.

The company approaches ALPA about negotiating a China sideletter through the JNC process because they need duty time relief from the East and payrates/workrules from the west. AWA MEC says OK. East MEC says no to JNC talks. They insist that since the company wants to amend the LOA93 duty limitations the company must negotiate with the East exclusively.

Your assignment; Spin this so it is the fault of A.) ALPA national, B.) The AWA MEC. C.) My Fault.

GO!

Oh Puhleeeaze..Gimme somthing tough...You want that sliced and diced or just lightly toasted?

A) I'll take ALPA National for a thousand. Without their magnificent, magical mystery merger "processes"...the current division between east and west wouldn't even exist. I'll cheerfully listen to any opposing notions on that observation. Some of your own people are on camera as noting that they "were ready to get screwed" = accept DOH. This of course was by way of whining about the evil easties not rolling over for Nic, and thus not "playing fair" I guess. Others are viewable noting that increased pay would get the east to submit since "That's everbody's bottom line". We'll never agree as to whether any part of what's transpired is "fair"..but...DOH, with protections out west,... would... have... WORKED. What we've got, courtesy of Alpa's BS..clearly doesn't.

B The AWA MEC only becomes culpable if/when it ventures outside of the grasp of the Mother Ship, which hasn't happened yet.

C) I'm just an evil-eastie..so everything's naturally my fault in any case Heck..according to at least one of your guys; the demise of the company (or was it the entire world?..I forget) has been scheduled for 24 months hence..for the last several months now, still 24 to go everytime, and it's ALL the fault of the east pilots. If this seems excessively flippant... well..tough. I think that most of you guys/gals will vote Alpa...we'll vote otherewise, and all that will matter is what we all do afterwards.. If your MEC Boy's correct..then there'll be "All out warfare"...but I very seriously doubt it.

Take Care/Have a Good One

 

[EastUS]

Now that was good for a laugh.....

Jim

And therein lies yet another "divergence in the perceived validity of the presented assumptions and beliefs".

 

[ableoneable]

Oh Puhleeeaze..Gimme somthing tough...You want that sliced and diced or just lightly toasted?

A) I'll take ALPA National for a thousand. Without their magnificent, magical mystery merger "processes"...the current division between east and west wouldn't even exist. I'll cheerfully listen to any opposing notions on that observation. Some of your own people are on camera as noting that they "were ready to get screwed" = accept DOH. This of course was by way of whining about the evil easties not rolling over for Nic, and thus not "playing fair" I guess. Others are viewable noting that increased pay would get the east to submit since "That's everbody's bottom line". We'll never agree as to whether any part of what's transpired is "fair"..but...DOH, with protections out west,... would... have... WORKED. What we've got, courtesy of Alpa's BS..clearly doesn't.

B The AWA MEC only becomes culpable if/when it ventures outside of the grasp of the Mother Ship, which hasn't happened yet.

C) I'm just an evil-eastie..so everything's naturally my fault in any case

Now that was good for a laugh.

A- on the twist, finding a way to blame national. I knew you could do it . You did have to reach all the way back to the "merger process" to do so, however, hence the minus.

 

[EastUS]

Now that was good for a laugh.

A- on the twist, finding a way to blame national. I knew you could do it . You did have to reach all the way back to the "merger process" to do so, however, hence the minus.

Glad you liked it. It's been "awhile" since I've been in school, so I'm OK with but an A- , but..it must be noted that you've no proper apprecation for an education in history, from which the present/future necessarily evolves

"finding a way to blame national." How could ANYONE with any above room temp IQ find them blameless? Nevermind...that'd be the same ones curently thinking that Nic's great, fair and fully reasonable, and that everything's going to "Go Nic" real soon....ever..etc. Kinda' like the "You won't even get 200 cards!" crowd. :blink:

 

[ableoneable]

Glad you liked it. It's been "awhile" since I've been in school, so I'm OK with but an A-

"finding a way to blame national." How could ANYONE with any above room temp IQ find them blameless? Nevermind...that'd be the same ones curently thinking that Nic's great, fair and fully reasonable, and that everything's going to "Go Nic" real soon....ever..etc. Kinda' like the "You won't even get 200 cards!" crowd. :blink:

Nobody over here thinks that national is behind the Nic. On the contrary, the people I have talked to on our JNC and MEC believe that national is actually very sympathetic to the East.

A. They dilly dallied on presenting the list to the company for as long as possible.

--They could have presented it immediately. The east went ahead with a recall anyway.

B. They proposed blue ribbon commission, steering groups and everything but a tea party to try and get the west to surrender all or part of the arbitrated award.

C. They did not put any East LEC into receivership and move ahead with the JNC process.

--Had they done so and presented a TA it may or may not have been ratified. Some data indicates it would have passed, others say vehemently it could not have.

D. They only put an East LEC into receivership when they themselves were threatened. This had nothing to do with appeasing the West.

--Here we are in agreement. Putting PHL into receivership did the west no favors. But then again they have never been too concerned about the west.

National's priorities. 1. National 2. UAL/DAL/NWA. 3. Getting American Back. 4. AAA 5. The regionals 6. AWA's 1800 votes.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And therein lies yet another "divergence in the perceived validity of the presented assumptions and beliefs".

Except that you have just as much "divergence in the perceived validity...." as anyone, in addition to one's you create through crafty manipulation of other's words. That's why the good laugh.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Except that you have just as much "divergence in the perceived validity...." as anyone, in addition to one's you create through crafty manipulation of other's words. That's why the good laugh.

Jim

Frankly Jim, between the "crafty manipulation of others words" and the cutesie emoticons :down: , I've just had about all I can stomach of East's posts.

I think he's just about covered the gamut of ALPA's ills, USAPA's saviour status.

What I really would like to know is when he flys the line, if ever. Always Johnny on the spot defending USAPA and every transgression ALPA was perceived to make all the way back to Dave Behncke, I mean when does this dude work?

I think the moderator should just close the ALPA/AWA thread until the vote is tabulated. All the regulars on here have certainly more than affirmed their positions on the matter at hand. Wasting more bandwith is no longer productive for either side.

What say you Moderator? Shut it down.

 

[EastUS]

Nobody over here thinks that national is behind the Nic. On the contrary, the people I have talked to on our JNC and MEC believe that national is actually very sympathetic to the East.

--Here we are in agreement. Putting PHL into receivership did the west no favors. But then again they have never been too concerned about the west.

National's priorities. 1. National 2. UAL/DAL/NWA. 3. Getting American Back. 4. AAA 5. The regionals 6. AWA's 1800 votes.

I seriously doubt that anyone at Herndon has ANY concern for anyone's votes. Consider the flippancy demonstrated by the instant "excommunication" of the PHL guys/the Loyalty Oaths/etc. What any/all of us aon the line actaullyt hink seems of zero concern at Herndon, and there's frankly nothing new for them in that behavior.

I'd go with the more obvious thought that they're concerned entirely with their cash flow, and maximizing their little empire's influence. Using that assumption as a model: Any perceived "sympathy" for the east since Nic is readilly explained.

 

[EastUS]

Frankly Jim, between the "crafty manipulation of others words" and the cutesie emoticons :down: , I've just had about all I can stomach of East's posts.

I think he's just about covered the gamut of ALPA's ills, USAPA's saviour status.

What I really would like to know is when he flys the line, if ever. Always Johnny on the spot defending USAPA and every transgression ALPA was perceived to make all the way back to Dave Behncke, I mean when does this dude work?

I think the moderator should just close the ALPA/AWA thread until the vote is tabulated. All the regulars on here have certainly more than affirmed their positions on the matter at hand. Wasting more bandwith is no longer productive for either side.

What say you Moderator? Shut it down.

Whew!...Shucks folks..I'm speechless! This is worth "closing down" because of your irritation with posts like my own...that no one's forcing you to read? Heck..have another emoticon or two on me :blink: Hmmm...One "MIGHT" wonder if it's not more of a bizarre notion offered up to minimize anti-Alpa conversation. You MUST be a devout Alpoid..few others around here would find themselves sufficiently self-entitled, and "important" so as to seek control over the thoughts and expressions of others. Umm..and NO..I didn't yet sign any Loyalty Oath.


As for "when he flies the line"? I'll gladly put my monthly hours against yours ANYTIME. Name the stakes and let's bet.


"I think the moderator should just close the ALPA/AWA thread until the vote is tabulated." This may shock you, but not everyone's hugely concerned with what you "think", nor how and where they should express themselves. I do thank you for providing yet another glimpse into the "mind" of a true Alpa guy though=no point in people talking. "If my tender little ears don't like what they're hearing...Mommy!/Moderater!..Auntie Em!..Shut it Down!" Truly pathetic. ... Have another emoticon