E
EastUS
Guest
Aw heck..you guys are right. We're all being way too hard on Alpa. Why...I'll go to my grave with a glowing pride over just how fiercely they fought at The Battle of the Pensions alone
ALPA/USAPA topic of the week
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
- Status
Aw heck..you guys are right. We're all being way too hard on Alpa. Why...I'll go to my grave with a glowing pride over just how fiercely they fought at The Battle of the Pensions alone
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
That is still being determined at the NMB as we speak. Hopefully a ruling will come out shortly.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
As far as I know, the mailings should go out starting tomorrow the 13th. I may be wrong and they should start arriving then. I just know the 13th is a key date.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #199
I think that's generally right - the NMB sets a cutoff date for eligibility, although it basically only affects new hires. I have no idea if that's the date they'll set, though. What the NMB says is:
For determining eligibility to vote, the cut-off date is the last day of the payroll period ending before the day the NMB received the application. This cut-off date is applicable regardless of whether there are multiple payroll periods for the craft or class.
Furloughees and those on leave of absence or medical are generally considered eligible, which is why that mostly applies to new hires.
Jim
N924PS
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 2,036
- 1,529
Aw heck..you guys are right. We're all being way too hard on Alpa. Why...I'll go to my grave with a glowing pride over just how fiercely they fought at The Battle of the Pensions alone
At least the ALPA reps and attorneys that fought to keep terminated pilots (at least 2 being USPA volunteers) employed fought fiercely enough to keep them on the property.
There are a few pilots on East that were in airplane crashes and had ALPA at their side immediately. Did their ALPA support system respond fast enough? You bet it did.
If USAPA becomes the new CBA on 17 April, make sure you keep a log of how many battles it wins, especially in its first year or two. I believe we're in for a rude awakening, but at least you can't blame it on ALPA this time around.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
USAPA filed a request for determination with the NMB. You may have pointed out what they may use as a response. However, they could come out with something else. Like I said, it is still being determined. With a ruling to come out ??? We expected it last week.
AWA320
Veteran
I FEEL A WEST PILOT SHUT DOWN LOOMING IN THE AIR! HMMM HOW LONG CAN THE USAPA BABIES LAST IN THE INDUSTRY WITH 50% OF THE PILOT WORK FORCE, WELL NOT WORKING?? AHHH FATE IS ONLY A SHORT TIME AWAY. HOPE THOSE RESUME ARE UP TO DATE CAUSE YA GONNA NEED'EM. 
ALPA: The Pilots Union
AWA MEC Communications Committee Update – March 12, 2008
Re: America West Pilots Are Furious
The America West pilot group has shouldered more than their fair share of the burden associated with the purchase of US Airways. The anger and frustration within our pilot group is at an all time high. Those of us at the tip of the spear who keep this airline limping along on a daily basis have seen the results of sheer ineptitude, the lack of a unified plan, and the general absence of respect shown by management toward America West pilots. Virtually the entire executive leadership of the new US Airways is former America West managers; have they so quickly forgotten who it was that brought them to this party?
This and many other themes are the topics of discussion among the vast majority of our pilots. From feedback received at pizza lunches, in the crew room, via email and by phone, your elected representatives and MEC officers are acutely aware that America West pilots are fed up. What feedback have we received that leads us to this conclusion? Let us recap some of management’s most egregious foul-ups.
The Name: Management’s first blunder was keeping the name US Airways. While America West certainly was not an internationally known name, the “baggage†associated with the US Airways brand is ghastly. The US Airways brand has always been, and to this day continues to be, the industry’s poster child for poor customer service, lost or late bags, bad management, and shoddy facilities. You can now add, “US Airways: How NOT to do a merger,†to that list. By keeping the US Airways name, management stole the can-do spirit and pride away from all America West employees while simultaneously feeding the feeling of some East employees who still cling to the misguided notion that they were the surviving carrier. With the exception of the equally feeble-minded Ted Reed of The Street.com, even the media knows the true tale. A March 6, 2008 story run by Business Week states it best: “A brash young manager when he landed the top job at America West in 2001, Parker pounded the table for airline consolidation, scooped up US Airways in 2005, and made a run at Delta Air Lines (DAL) a year later … Bankrupt twice, US Airways was facing liquidation, which could have eliminated 22,000 jobs and cut service to dozens of cities.â€
The Culture: You could write a thesis on this subject. Suffice it to say that THREE years following the merger, even our own managers refer to our groups as East and West. Among the layers of management that were added back on, didn’t we have a Vice President of Cultural Integration? What’s this person been up to? What have they accomplished?
The Benefits: The first thing to go for America West pilots (and actually ALL America West employees) was pass travel benefits. Bowing to pressure from cantankerous East employees, management unilaterally changed our boarding priority to a date-of-hire system, even though first come/first serve was used and accepted at other airlines with much longer histories than that of US Airways. Management even admitted that the decision was done to appease the East because of all they had gone through. Excuse me, but why should OUR benefits be diminished because 22,000 other people worked for years at a poorly run company?
The Call Sign: On the heels of throwing the pass travel bone to East employees, senior management announced that the call sign of the combined company would indeed be “CACTUS.†At a Town Hall meeting held in Pittsburgh, management defended the choice of selecting “CACTUS.†A year later, the flip-flop began. After the announcement of the seniority list, management again revealed their pandering method of running this airline. The switch to a single operating certificate was not accompanied with a switch to a single call sign. Why? Management doesn’t believe there are any consequences to reneging on promises that they have made to America West pilots, that’s why.
The Stagnation: Management likes to point out to gullible listeners that this merger saved jobs, precipitated the recall of all furloughed pilots, and resulted in hundreds of captain upgrades. They leave off the last part of that sentence that all of this has benefited the East pilot group. The only change felt on the West side is total and complete career stagnation. To which management likes to reply that we are just lucky to have jobs. Hey buddy … with the stock trading at $9.02 per share (and sinking faster than the Titanic) YOU are the one who is lucky to have a job! You can’t get around the fact that OVER 400 East pilots have upgraded to captain, while the West has upgraded LESS than 40. That is real career stagnation, and the West pilots are bearing the entire burden for this merger!
The Contract: Before the seniority list was announced, both the West and East had staffed a Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and were quite a ways down the road toward closing out a contract. Your MEC recognized that a united pilot group could generate a lot more leverage than two groups operating independently. Accordingly, the MEC held off on opening Section 6 negotiations with management. Our contract was amendable on December 31, 2006. Talks could have started six months before that date. Two years of better pay and benefits have now been wasted as a result of this merger. Management’s reply: “Well, you have profit sharing now.†I’m sorry, but a couple of thousand dollars per year does not equate to a new contract. Management was thoroughly warned by the JNC and East and West leadership about the consequences of not closing out a contract before the seniority list was announced. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that management would rather have pilots fighting them, and amongst themselves, than working together for the betterment of all US Airways employees.
The “Supplement the FOM†mentality: If you’ve flown at all in the past few months, you’re well aware of the inadequacy of the new method for communicating with our dispatchers and maintenance personnel. Management’s answer to the problem that THEY created: use your cell phone. We have fielded a lot of calls from pilots asking what part of the FOM directs us to use our cell phones to support company operations. We have not found it. Being able to expeditiously make contact with your dispatcher and having timely access to maintenance control is critical to providing a safe product for our customers.
The Decertification Drive: Where to start? This is the hottest topic, and one that generates the most comments and concerns from pilots. After following ALPA Merger Policy, a process that both the East and West MECs agreed to, a group of disgruntled East pilots is now trying to decertify ALPA. The USAPA movement is all about East pilots who want to recoup lost pay and benefits on the backs of America West pilots. We have heard you loud and clear when you say that you will not take this lying down. The past misfortunes of the former US Airways pilots should not, cannot, and will NOT be borne by the America West pilots. Management could have easily affected the attitude and ability of the East pilots who are attempting to usurp control of the process, but they have remained quiet. Management has repeatedly stated their mantra of letting the union decide what will happen, but their true intent is clear: they want a fractured and divided pilot group that is incapable of unifying around a cause. Until we show that we can be unified in our actions, management will continue to walk all over us.
The Crew Room Incident: As you may know, our MEC chairman was kicked out of the Charlotte crew room by representatives of management under the guise of trying to afford “laboratory conditions†during the upcoming representation vote. Many of you have expressed your outrage that management would deny union representatives their legal right to access and discuss issues with their constituents. ALPA is the collective bargaining agent of record for ALL US Airways pilots. In their response to the National Mediation Board (NMB), management asserted that US Airways should be considered a single carrier for representation purposes. Why then should either MEC chairman or any democratically elected union representative be denied access to members of their Association?!? In a March 7, 2008 letter to Al Hemenway, the Association asserted that they have every right under the law to meet with their constituents. The letter concluded by telling management that: “We fully expect that ALPA representatives will continue to have access to crew lounges to conduct union business without interference. We intend to exercise that right and will not accept further interference.†Doug Parker’s excuse? He won’t overrule his lawyers or his labor and flight operations people from guess where? That’s right – the East!
Conclusion
So, the issue now is: When will America West pilots finally act as a unified group, stand up to management, and show their utter disgust at the state of our operation?
What the MEC can tell you is that your AWA MEC chairman will be exercising his lawful right (and yours too) to communicate with the pilots that ALPA is certified to represent. Your MEC will not be cowed by strong arm tactics from management. As such, we have scheduled Captain McIlvenna for a series of crew room visits. Pilots are invited to visit with our MEC chairman to discuss the very important issues that face the America West pilots, and by proxy, ALL employees of the NEW US Airways. These issues include contract negotiations, operational concerns, jumpseat issues, A330 LOA talks, uniform issues and more. The schedule for these crew room appearances is as follows:
Thursday, March 13, 2008
PHX Crew Room
1100-1330
Friday, March 14, 2008
PHX Crew Room
1100-1330
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
LAS Crew Room
2030-2230
Captain Tania Bziukiewicz
Communications Committee Chairman
ALPA: The Pilots Union
AWA MEC Communications Committee Update – March 12, 2008
Re: America West Pilots Are Furious
The America West pilot group has shouldered more than their fair share of the burden associated with the purchase of US Airways. The anger and frustration within our pilot group is at an all time high. Those of us at the tip of the spear who keep this airline limping along on a daily basis have seen the results of sheer ineptitude, the lack of a unified plan, and the general absence of respect shown by management toward America West pilots. Virtually the entire executive leadership of the new US Airways is former America West managers; have they so quickly forgotten who it was that brought them to this party?
This and many other themes are the topics of discussion among the vast majority of our pilots. From feedback received at pizza lunches, in the crew room, via email and by phone, your elected representatives and MEC officers are acutely aware that America West pilots are fed up. What feedback have we received that leads us to this conclusion? Let us recap some of management’s most egregious foul-ups.
The Name: Management’s first blunder was keeping the name US Airways. While America West certainly was not an internationally known name, the “baggage†associated with the US Airways brand is ghastly. The US Airways brand has always been, and to this day continues to be, the industry’s poster child for poor customer service, lost or late bags, bad management, and shoddy facilities. You can now add, “US Airways: How NOT to do a merger,†to that list. By keeping the US Airways name, management stole the can-do spirit and pride away from all America West employees while simultaneously feeding the feeling of some East employees who still cling to the misguided notion that they were the surviving carrier. With the exception of the equally feeble-minded Ted Reed of The Street.com, even the media knows the true tale. A March 6, 2008 story run by Business Week states it best: “A brash young manager when he landed the top job at America West in 2001, Parker pounded the table for airline consolidation, scooped up US Airways in 2005, and made a run at Delta Air Lines (DAL) a year later … Bankrupt twice, US Airways was facing liquidation, which could have eliminated 22,000 jobs and cut service to dozens of cities.â€
The Culture: You could write a thesis on this subject. Suffice it to say that THREE years following the merger, even our own managers refer to our groups as East and West. Among the layers of management that were added back on, didn’t we have a Vice President of Cultural Integration? What’s this person been up to? What have they accomplished?
The Benefits: The first thing to go for America West pilots (and actually ALL America West employees) was pass travel benefits. Bowing to pressure from cantankerous East employees, management unilaterally changed our boarding priority to a date-of-hire system, even though first come/first serve was used and accepted at other airlines with much longer histories than that of US Airways. Management even admitted that the decision was done to appease the East because of all they had gone through. Excuse me, but why should OUR benefits be diminished because 22,000 other people worked for years at a poorly run company?
The Call Sign: On the heels of throwing the pass travel bone to East employees, senior management announced that the call sign of the combined company would indeed be “CACTUS.†At a Town Hall meeting held in Pittsburgh, management defended the choice of selecting “CACTUS.†A year later, the flip-flop began. After the announcement of the seniority list, management again revealed their pandering method of running this airline. The switch to a single operating certificate was not accompanied with a switch to a single call sign. Why? Management doesn’t believe there are any consequences to reneging on promises that they have made to America West pilots, that’s why.
The Stagnation: Management likes to point out to gullible listeners that this merger saved jobs, precipitated the recall of all furloughed pilots, and resulted in hundreds of captain upgrades. They leave off the last part of that sentence that all of this has benefited the East pilot group. The only change felt on the West side is total and complete career stagnation. To which management likes to reply that we are just lucky to have jobs. Hey buddy … with the stock trading at $9.02 per share (and sinking faster than the Titanic) YOU are the one who is lucky to have a job! You can’t get around the fact that OVER 400 East pilots have upgraded to captain, while the West has upgraded LESS than 40. That is real career stagnation, and the West pilots are bearing the entire burden for this merger!
The Contract: Before the seniority list was announced, both the West and East had staffed a Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and were quite a ways down the road toward closing out a contract. Your MEC recognized that a united pilot group could generate a lot more leverage than two groups operating independently. Accordingly, the MEC held off on opening Section 6 negotiations with management. Our contract was amendable on December 31, 2006. Talks could have started six months before that date. Two years of better pay and benefits have now been wasted as a result of this merger. Management’s reply: “Well, you have profit sharing now.†I’m sorry, but a couple of thousand dollars per year does not equate to a new contract. Management was thoroughly warned by the JNC and East and West leadership about the consequences of not closing out a contract before the seniority list was announced. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that management would rather have pilots fighting them, and amongst themselves, than working together for the betterment of all US Airways employees.
The “Supplement the FOM†mentality: If you’ve flown at all in the past few months, you’re well aware of the inadequacy of the new method for communicating with our dispatchers and maintenance personnel. Management’s answer to the problem that THEY created: use your cell phone. We have fielded a lot of calls from pilots asking what part of the FOM directs us to use our cell phones to support company operations. We have not found it. Being able to expeditiously make contact with your dispatcher and having timely access to maintenance control is critical to providing a safe product for our customers.
The Decertification Drive: Where to start? This is the hottest topic, and one that generates the most comments and concerns from pilots. After following ALPA Merger Policy, a process that both the East and West MECs agreed to, a group of disgruntled East pilots is now trying to decertify ALPA. The USAPA movement is all about East pilots who want to recoup lost pay and benefits on the backs of America West pilots. We have heard you loud and clear when you say that you will not take this lying down. The past misfortunes of the former US Airways pilots should not, cannot, and will NOT be borne by the America West pilots. Management could have easily affected the attitude and ability of the East pilots who are attempting to usurp control of the process, but they have remained quiet. Management has repeatedly stated their mantra of letting the union decide what will happen, but their true intent is clear: they want a fractured and divided pilot group that is incapable of unifying around a cause. Until we show that we can be unified in our actions, management will continue to walk all over us.
The Crew Room Incident: As you may know, our MEC chairman was kicked out of the Charlotte crew room by representatives of management under the guise of trying to afford “laboratory conditions†during the upcoming representation vote. Many of you have expressed your outrage that management would deny union representatives their legal right to access and discuss issues with their constituents. ALPA is the collective bargaining agent of record for ALL US Airways pilots. In their response to the National Mediation Board (NMB), management asserted that US Airways should be considered a single carrier for representation purposes. Why then should either MEC chairman or any democratically elected union representative be denied access to members of their Association?!? In a March 7, 2008 letter to Al Hemenway, the Association asserted that they have every right under the law to meet with their constituents. The letter concluded by telling management that: “We fully expect that ALPA representatives will continue to have access to crew lounges to conduct union business without interference. We intend to exercise that right and will not accept further interference.†Doug Parker’s excuse? He won’t overrule his lawyers or his labor and flight operations people from guess where? That’s right – the East!
Conclusion
So, the issue now is: When will America West pilots finally act as a unified group, stand up to management, and show their utter disgust at the state of our operation?
What the MEC can tell you is that your AWA MEC chairman will be exercising his lawful right (and yours too) to communicate with the pilots that ALPA is certified to represent. Your MEC will not be cowed by strong arm tactics from management. As such, we have scheduled Captain McIlvenna for a series of crew room visits. Pilots are invited to visit with our MEC chairman to discuss the very important issues that face the America West pilots, and by proxy, ALL employees of the NEW US Airways. These issues include contract negotiations, operational concerns, jumpseat issues, A330 LOA talks, uniform issues and more. The schedule for these crew room appearances is as follows:
Thursday, March 13, 2008
PHX Crew Room
1100-1330
Friday, March 14, 2008
PHX Crew Room
1100-1330
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
LAS Crew Room
2030-2230
Captain Tania Bziukiewicz
Communications Committee Chairman
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Just more FUDS. Keep trying. Maybe something will stick. Right out of the ACPC playbook. Hope you can come up with something original.
E
EastUS
Guest
AWA320
Veteran
N924PS
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 2,036
- 1,529
The ACPC Playbook is not much different the the one the USAPA boys are using. Just different sides of the issue and the same kind of FUD.
E
EastUS
Guest
Thee's no question that ANY/all unions have provided some individual level of assistance to their members at times. I've proper respect for the guys that do exactly that. I must note that you didn't address the group issues though. Let's revisit thei little pension thing again for example...and silence ensues.
"I believe we're in for a rude awakening," That's allready happened. Spare me the standard FUD, and show me the major "victories"..Sorry that they don't exist and thusly you can't.
"The ACPC Playbook is not much different the the one the USAPA boys are using. Just different sides of the issue." Oh Really!!? Show me the part where FEAR is being "sold" by USAPA?...No comment?
PS: Next time you mouth off about another man..be ready to back it up> My wager's open as to how much you "work" versus myself, and I find your pathetic sort of chickensh-t crap to be fully in accordance with imagery of the typical Alpoid. "What I really would like to know is when he flys the line, if ever. Always Johnny on the spot defending USAPA and every transgression ALPA was perceived to make all the way back to Dave Behncke, I mean when does this dude work?"
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
No, actually the cut off date for voting is Apr. 17th. The questions we're trying to determine is who is eligible up to that cutoff day. As for the Nov. 13th date mentioned earlier. I believe that was the cutoff for the involved parties. In other words, another union couldn't try to get on the ballot by submitting cards. That's quite a time range for eligibility being denied. Nov. 13 to Apr. 17th. Lots of changes during that time. Not told the actual figure, but my guess is this could affect as many as 150 pilots.
N924PS
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 2,036
- 1,529
- Status
