ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[20 YEAR FO]

Still no email response from Bradford. I'am concerned about who pays for the west lawsuit against us. It will come soon enough, I know. Less than half of the airline has joined usapa. Are we , the half going to pay for the assessments? This is turning out to be an expensive nightmare. I want a new contract, I need the money. We really screwed the pooch , I think with this usapa thing. I'am convinced the 1800 out west will never join, can you honestly blame them? Would you join if you were them? I know I wouldn't. We turned down $30,000 to over $40,000 a year pay raises. For what Bradford? To impose LOA 93 on the west for spite? How does that put my kids through college? I apologize to the west. This was an emotional outburst called usapa. See you guys in the broke furlough line.

 

[EastUS]

Still no email response from Bradford. I'am concerned about who pays for the west lawsuit against us. It will come soon enough, I know. Less than half of the airline has joined usapa. Are we , the half going to pay for the assessments? This is turning out to be an expensive nightmare. I want a new contract, I need the money. We really screwed the pooch , I think with this usapa thing. I'am convinced the 1800 out west will never join, can you honestly blame them? Would you join if you were them? I know I wouldn't. We turned down $30,000 to over $40,000 a year pay raises. For what Bradford? To impose LOA 93 on the west for spite? How does that put my kids through college? I apologize to the west. This was an emotional outburst called usapa. See you guys in the broke furlough line.

I'm just curious: What's the perceived value in deceitfully shilling for Alpa/The West at this point?

 

[fr8tmastr]

USAPA is compelled to negotiate the contract for the west pilots regardless of their membership status in USAPA. Now, the west pilots wouldn't be able to vote on that contract until they joined USAPA, but that's a separate matter. USAPA inherited ALL of the provisions of the west contract and is obligated to defend all of them or face a DFR lawsuit. If they choose to negotiate an identical joint contract, that is there perogative, but it doesn't relieve them of their responsibility as "winners" in the NMB vote.

I would think that there must be some levelheaded leader among the east pilots who is sick and tired of the amature-hour that has been the Bradford administration and is prepared to offer the USAirways pilots true leadership. Someone who sees the futility of clinging to the anchor of DOH and is ready to unite east and west. Bradford has continued to delude the east pilots into believing that he can deliver on his promises and that DOH is a viable option. He has embraced the concept of whipsaw and has tried to convince his supporters that it only cuts one way. Perhaps that's how he earned his spot on Parker's speed dial.

Yes, we need someone that will just ask all East pilots to resign so that the 2005 hires on the West never have to face another day of reserve. That would be the fair thing to do.

 

[EastUS]

Yes, we need someone that will just ask all East pilots to resign so that the 2005 hires on the West never have to face another day of reserve. That would be the fair thing to do.

Indeed sir. That's the ticket. I can't believe I've just been so dense as to not have clearly seen that long ago.

 

[fr8tmastr]

Still no email response from Bradford. I'am concerned about who pays for the west lawsuit against us. It will come soon enough, I know. Less than half of the airline has joined usapa. Are we , the half going to pay for the assessments? This is turning out to be an expensive nightmare. I want a new contract, I need the money. We really screwed the pooch , I think with this usapa thing. I'am convinced the 1800 out west will never join, can you honestly blame them? Would you join if you were them? I know I wouldn't. We turned down $30,000 to over $40,000 a year pay raises. For what Bradford? To impose LOA 93 on the west for spite? How does that put my kids through college? I apologize to the west. This was an emotional outburst called usapa. See you guys in the broke furlough line.

Gee, that sounds like an "East" pilot who has suddenly seen the light. That is just what we need, an "honest" and "true" assessment of of the situation from an "East" pilot.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I would think that there must be some levelheaded leader among the West pilots who is sick and tired of the amature-hour that has been the Prater administration and is prepared to offer the USAirways pilots true leadership.

Someone who sees the futility of clinging to the anchor of Nicalau and is ready to unite east and west. The West merger committee has continued to delude the West pilots into believing that they can deliver on his promises and that Nicalau will ever be a viable option in a joint contract. He has embraced the concept of whipsaw and has tried to convince his supporters that it only cuts one way.

 

[sharktooth]

The judge just cant impose a CBA, you have to follow the steps in Bankruptcy Code Section 1113.

True. But a judge can impose the same restrictions to the same craft, even if they are under different CBAs. I did not mean to imply a judge can impose an entire CBA.

 

[700UW]

But negotiations would have to be held with each group since they are under seperate CBAs even though they are the same craft.

 

[sharktooth]

Less than half of the airline has joined usapa.

Indeed. Some 4000 plus out of 35,000 is certainly less than half.

BTW, please lay out your reasons for believing a DFR will be lodged against USAPA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAPA is compelled to negotiate the contract for the west pilots regardless of their membership status in USAPA. Now, the west pilots wouldn't be able to vote on that contract until they joined USAPA, but that's a separate matter. USAPA inherited ALL of the provisions of the west contract and is obligated to defend all of them or face a DFR lawsuit. If they choose to negotiate an identical joint contract, that is there perogative, but it doesn't relieve them of their responsibility as "winners" in the NMB vote.

I agree with what you say.

I also think voting the west contract as the new joint contract with a 3% raise and an amendable date of December 31, 2009, is a good, quick solution. Parker has twice now said that if there are further mergers that he would automatically pay the groups the more expensive of the two contracts. He told that to the Delta people, and aimed a similar comment at the UAL employees. So, I would vote yes in a heartbeat to take on the west contract, especially with the 3% raise. This even though it would mean little or no raise for me and my 757/767 colleagues, given that the west contract pays slightly less for the 757 than the east. Small price for a small group to pay for the opportunity to move forward.

 

[sharktooth]

But negotiations would have to be held with each group since they are under seperate CBAs even though they are the same craft.

Okay, say the east group and the company lobby the judge over a "plan" and the west group and the company lobby the same judge over a "plan". I can see the judge could impose different restrictions to the west group, even worse than the east ones.

Who would represent the east group and the west groups? USAPA? Could the west group hire ALPA?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Still no email response from Bradford. I'am concerned about who pays for the west lawsuit against us. It will come soon enough, I know. Less than half of the airline has joined usapa. Are we , the half going to pay for the assessments? This is turning out to be an expensive nightmare. I want a new contract, I need the money. We really screwed the pooch , I think with this usapa thing. I'am convinced the 1800 out west will never join, can you honestly blame them? Would you join if you were them? I know I wouldn't. We turned down $30,000 to over $40,000 a year pay raises. For what Bradford? To impose LOA 93 on the west for spite? How does that put my kids through college? I apologize to the west. This was an emotional outburst called usapa. See you guys in the broke furlough line.

How convenient. A newbie shows up with a deceptive member name and starts spouting west propaganda.

Tell me, newbie, just what charges will be filed with this impending lawsuit? You say it's coming soon enough. What has USAPA done to merit a lawsuit? The very fact of their existence over the objections of a non-participatory, non-dues-paying minority is not sufficient grounds to ask a judge for relief.

 

[prechilill]

Core economic numbers are crashing, inflation is roaring and commodities are going throught the roof (disclaimer" I am long four gold contracts at $852). So, now that oil is well into triple digits and the rest of the world is finding out what Delta knew about us last year with our heavy debt load and precarious financial position, Parker will have to make some difficult decisions pretty soon. The airline is running out of their borrowed cash and we could see a quick bankruptcy al la Frontier if the credit card companies or some creditor get spooked. It will be sad to see the piloting profession's most experienced right seaters go back on furlough (again). What a career!

 

[commuter]

USAPA is compelled to negotiate the contract for the west pilots regardless of their membership status in USAPA. Now, the west pilots wouldn't be able to vote on that contract until they joined USAPA, but that's a separate matter. USAPA inherited ALL of the provisions of the west contract and is obligated to defend all of them or face a DFR lawsuit. If they choose to negotiate an identical joint contract, that is there perogative, but it doesn't relieve them of their responsibility as "winners" in the NMB vote.

USAPA is not going to place itself into a situation that could be construed as a violation of DFR. That's not to say there won't be someone that will bring forth a DFR suit, only that it will have no basis. USAPA is a pilots union, all it is concerned with is representing US Airways pilots, regardless of whether they are east or west.

USAPA will negotiate the integration agreement that will combine both east and west pilot groups under one contract, provided we do not merge with UAUA. Whether west pilots will decide to become members of USAPA so that they have a voice in the direction their union takes is completely their choice. No one can or will force them to become a member. Regardless of their choice, they will be represented by USAPA.

A few weeks ago there was much discussion about who was going to pay dues and questioning how the company would enforce dues payment, that issue should now be resolved, I would hope. Hemmingway was very clear and I think it was NYCBUSDRIVER that surmised how it would go down, looking back, he was right on. I don't think its going to take more than a handful of discharges to get people current on their dues, unless a pilot believes it is worth losing his/her career over. So I think we can assume all 5200 pilots will become current in short order.

 

[autofixer]

Core economic numbers are crashing, inflation is roaring and commodities are going throught the roof (disclaimer" I am long four gold contracts at $852). So, now that oil is well into triple digits and the rest of the world is finding out what Delta knew about us last year with our heavy debt load and precarious financial position, Parker will have to make some difficult decisions pretty soon. The airline is running out of their borrowed cash and we could see a quick bankruptcy al la Frontier if the credit card companies or some creditor get spooked. It will be sad to see the piloting profession's most experienced right seaters go back on furlough (again). What a career!

Well at least we will get to the new job before you and maybe do the hiring or interviewing after this place finally shuts down. One thing about this career field, it is amazing how small of a world it really is. You will realize that after you have been around a while.