ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[oldiebutgoody]

That would be a major dispute, you cant change the status quo, especially since the West is in Section 6.

I don't think the West is in section 6 negotiations. Especially since there isn't a "West" anymore, per the NMB.

All this talk of "DFR" is nonsense. There is no East or West anymore as far as the company or NMB is concerned, except fot the transition agreements. USAPA has to represent both, and majority rules.

 

[700UW]

There is still a west as they are under a seperate CBA and your not intergrated yet.

Why does West not fly East Metal and vice versa?

Why is there not seniority intergration yet?

Shall I continue?

The judge just cant impose a CBA, you have to follow the steps in Bankruptcy Code Section 1113.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There is still a west as they are under a seperate CBA and your not intergrated yet.

Why does West not fly East Metal and vice versa?

Why is there not seniority intergration yet?

Shall I continue?

The judge just cant impose a CBA, you have to follow the steps in Bankruptcy Code Section 1113.

The East and West ARE ONE CARRIER, WITH ONE REPRESENTATIVE ASSOCIATION per the NMB. Shall I continue?

There is NO ONE, other than USAPA, that represents them. Shall I continue?

Both sides are functioning under transition agreements. The company has said that they will not negotiate until AFTER some kind of consolidation. Shall I continue?

I'm not even talking chapter 11 yet. We all know from experience that the company can do pretty much as they please if that happens.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If/when "cuts" arrive how would the order of furlough be determined?

Right now, they'd have to furlough East guys if east flying is cut, or West guys if west flying is cut, since both are still operating separately. Furloughs would be handled in accordance with the transition agreements, which would be in accordance with the CBAs from each side.

After a new contract is signed, it will be in accordance with that.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Because the subsequent DFR would kill USAPA.

No it wouldn't. The next contract will be a joint voted on by the membership.

 

[700UW]

The East and West ARE ONE CARRIER, WITH ONE REPRESENTATIVE ASSOCIATION per the NMB. Shall I continue?

There is NO ONE, other than USAPA, that represents them. Shall I continue?

Both sides are functioning under transition agreements. The company has said that they will not negotiate until AFTER some kind of consolidation. Shall I continue?

I'm not even talking chapter 11 yet. We all know from experience that the company can do pretty much as they please if that happens.

You still don't get it, do you?

The West and East are still separate pilot groups, working under two separate CBAs, with different work rules and pay rates.

Just as it was before, instead of ALPA representing them, USAPA is, which by law, has to administer each CBA seperataly as they are not under one CBA yet.

And my chapter 11 reply was to sharktooth.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I think that this entire issue of east vs west, ALPA vs USAPA, is rapidly becoming the trees that are obstructing everyone's view of the forest. We're all focusing on the dead fish litering the beach while a tsunami is approaching.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Not only that, but USAPA may decide it needs to help the company in this time of crisis and give tacit approval to the November, 2005, Hemenway letter. The company already thinks it can use LOA 93 for the entire pilot group (per that Hemenway letter.) Without objection from the union, why not? For the east it would simply be business as usual. And think how much money the company would save in this time of need.

The easties have been demanding equal pay for equal work. Maybe USAPA and the company will finally agree on how to accomplish it in the short term.

(N.B. - Only members in good standing get to vote. Keep that dues money in your pocket. Have you heard the term: "Pissing into the wind"?)

Didn't you already say we don't really matter? What's the point in joining your association just to pay dues so you can tell us how it's going to be?

Honest question- Does the TA exist or not. You refer to minimum fleet size yet say the Section 6 rights went poof. Either it does or it doesn't, which is it?

Frankly the credibility of your entire group is suspect, after all integrity does matter.

 

[fr8tmastr]

Frankly the credibility of your entire group is suspect, after all integrity does matter.

Yes it does, which is funny considering the group that tried to officially have 105 pilots fired and removed from the seniority list, for no reason other than they felt they could. Nice. And we wont even talk about pay parody.
So yes you are correct integrity does matter

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You still don't get it, do you?

The West and East are still separate pilot groups, working under two separate CBAs, with different work rules and pay rates.

Just as it was before, instead of ALPA representing them, USAPA is, which by law, has to administer each CBA seperataly as they are not under one CBA yet.

And my chapter 11 reply was to sharktooth.

NO, YOU don't get it. There IS NO separate section 6 for the West. That's the way it is. Get used to it.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I think that this entire issue of east vs west, ALPA vs USAPA, is rapidly becoming the trees that are obstructing everyone's view of the forest. We're all focusing on the dead fish litering the beach while a tsunami is approaching.

Hopefully this will not be a case of winning the battle but losing the war (a hollow victory indeed).

 

[700UW]

Tempe-based US Airways Group (NYSE: LCC) received notification Friday from America West pilots requesting separate contract negotiations.

Also Friday, America West pilots began separate negotiations with US Airways management on future Airbus A330-200 widebody flying.

"Since the America West-US Airways merger was consummated, more than 400 (former US Air) pilots have been able to upgrade to captain positions, yet less than 40 (former America West) pilots have been offered the same opportunity," said John McIlvenna, chairman of the union leadership group representing the America West pilots, in a prepared statement. "It's long past time for management to make this merger right for the hard-working pilots out west."

The America West pilots' contract became amendable December 2006, with provisions that allowed for the parties to open negotiations in June 2006. The US Airways pilots' contract is not amendable until December 2009.

The America West pilots are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association International, the world's largest pilot union.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Is that what misled you? Check the date on that. The AW guys agreed to the same pay as the US guys on the 330-200s a few weeks before the USAPA vote. That article is probably a couple of months old. Who would the company negotiate a new contract with? ALPA is gone, and no one from the West will join USAPA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Well, since the west contract is already amendable, why not just try for the 3% raise that Doug offered (probably no longer available, but we'd have to ask) and tell the east guys to read the west book because that is the new law of the land. Pay particular attention to how seniority is determined in Section 22.

Westies get to keep their contract, and the easties simply sign on to it. (Thanks for negotiating those 330 pay rates, BTW.)

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA is compelled to negotiate the contract for the west pilots regardless of their membership status in USAPA. Now, the west pilots wouldn't be able to vote on that contract until they joined USAPA, but that's a separate matter. USAPA inherited ALL of the provisions of the west contract and is obligated to defend all of them or face a DFR lawsuit. If they choose to negotiate an identical joint contract, that is there perogative, but it doesn't relieve them of their responsibility as "winners" in the NMB vote.

I would think that there must be some levelheaded leader among the east pilots who is sick and tired of the amature-hour that has been the Bradford administration and is prepared to offer the USAirways pilots true leadership. Someone who sees the futility of clinging to the anchor of DOH and is ready to unite east and west. Bradford has continued to delude the east pilots into believing that he can deliver on his promises and that DOH is a viable option. He has embraced the concept of whipsaw and has tried to convince his supporters that it only cuts one way. Perhaps that's how he earned his spot on Parker's speed dial.