AIRBUS CHECKS WHO IS LYING !!!

[N628AU]

bikingjw,

Nice to know you have landed upright, I agree, there is a life and work outside US Airways as I have found as well. My desire to see the airline thrive and survive has a lot more to do than just a opening for me to return should I choose. Being involved in the Charlotte business community, I am afraid of the hit the economy will take locally should this thing get out of control. I don't think this local area, nor the state could stand to lose two major employers (Pillowtex and US Airways) within a year without seeing a ripple effect through the entire economy here.

 

[LavMan]

628, with all due respect, I am not an AGC or a grievance committeeman, you need to pose those questions to them, because I was not involved with the arbitration nor the negotiations.

 

[delldude]

Remember the first bus S-Checks (aircraft 700-701-702) are due to be worked in 6-8 weeks. Something has to happen soon with either a third party contract awarded or the appropriate tooling and staffing will have to be put into place to get the work done.

If the company decides to farm it out, PineyBob is right. The company would every means necessary to delay and stall any potential ruling one way or the other, and with appeals it would likely drag on for years, most likely taking enough time to get the majority of the S-Checks done outside the company. I am sure if the company loses an initial ruling, they would appeal and find a judge to issue an injunction barring a "self-help" action until the matter is fully adjudicated.

While saying that, I think there will be a resolution somewhere in the middle between the work being done in house and farmed out. There is too much to lose for each side for them to not come to an agreement somewhere.

hows about an injunction to stop the contract violation??it can be done until the court makes a decision.....U has to ground these planes(and i'm sure they'll love that).....and the tooling thing? everything we do as for on going 'c' chks and daily maintenence makes it a no brainer as far as i see it...we have all the tooling to perform all the rigging and maintenence that should pop up any time any where.. i just don't see any special tooling being needed that we don't already have.s chk can't be too far off a 'q' chk....technology may be improved but it can't be that far removed....as for the cowl dolly problem....there is one cfm-5 dolly in pit that i'm aware of...it mainly stays in the pit engine shop.when pit line does a cfm-5 they use good old fashioned gymnasium matting and gingerly set the cowl on these 3" blue mats with the appropriate sling...result = no problem here.screw the expensive dolly.

 

[to much time to quit]

everything we do as for on going 'c' chks and daily maintenence makes it a no brainer as far as i see it...we have all the tooling to perform all the rigging and maintenence that should pop up any time any where.. i just don't see any special tooling being needed that we don't already have.s chk can't be too far off a 'q' chk....technology may be improved but it can't be that far removed....as for the cowl dolly problem....there is one cfm-5 dolly in pit that i'm aware of...it mainly stays in the pit engine shop.when pit line does a cfm-5 they use good old fashioned gymnasium matting and gingerly set the cowl on these 3" blue mats with the appropriate sling...result = no problem here.screw the expensive dolly.

Dude, think about what your saying, heavy check is 100% different than daily maintenance and c-check. Thats why it has so much down time, theres alot more work that needs to be done, thats never been accomplished before. Regardless of the tooling issue, we've had the planes for years and the company knew when the checks were due, so they need to pick the station to do the work and move on. If they want to further alienate the work force and start the war, I know several thousand that will play that game very well, although once again that is not the preferred method. And on your jury-rig nose cowl methods in PIT all I can say if its allowed to be done that way as an alternate method in the maintenance manuals then fine, but if not, SHAME on you guys for not forcing the company to buy the equipment when it was needed. If the proper tooling is not available and a broken airplane sits and no heros are willing to risk therselves, the company tends to move quicker to get the proper equipment. Thats a perfect example of instances were employees put their necks out for this company and they still get screwed year after year after year after year. One of these days people are going to wise up, although it may be to late. One last point on dollys and other equpment. We have an in house welder in CLT that if given one to duplicate could make as many dollys and other equipmnet as the company needed at a fraction of the cost. But of course he doesn't have an accounting degree or the free time for the power point presentation to prove to the company the tremendous cost savings.

 

[delldude]

. And on your jury-rig nose cowl methods in PIT all I can say if its allowed to be done that way as an alternate method in the maintenance manuals then fine, but if not, SHAME on you guys for not forcing the company to buy the equipment when it was needed. If the proper tooling is not available and a broken airplane sits and no heros are willing to risk therselves, the company tends to move quicker to get the proper equipment. Thats a perfect example of instances were employees put their necks out for this company and they still get screwed year after year after year after year.

so i guess it would be best then to leave an airplane grounded and lose revenue?i wonder what a midnite lead,say in TPA would do if faced with a similar circumstance......yes there are also welders in PIT that can and do and have made all types of equipment and stands and the like for everything from tail dock fixtures to shops tooling.
as to the 'heavy' check issue,other than opening up an aircraft for inspection and time changes and re-rigging and corrosion repair.....'s' chks are that radically different than a 'q'?

 

[to much time to quit]

so i guess it would be best then to leave an airplane grounded and lose revenue?i wonder what a midnite lead,say in TPA would do if faced with a similar circumstance......yes there are also welders in PIT that can and do and have made all types of equipment and stands and the like for everything from tail dock fixtures to shops tooling.
as to the 'heavy' check issue,other than opening up an aircraft for inspection and time changes and re-rigging and corrosion repair.....'s' chks are that radically different than a 'q'?

If thats what it takes then YES. And who cares what a midnight lead in TPA would do?? Many people need to stand up for whats right and QUIT rolling over for the company like a bunch of LAPDOGS! They can see the weakness in your eyes. You cannot get in trouble for following the proper paperwork, but you can get in plenty of trouble for taking shortcuts. If an accident happens on the job and you or someone else gets hurt the first thing the company will do is see if you were following procedures. But NO we were trying to help because you don't have the proper equipment, will be the WRONG answer. They will punish to the max 9 out of 10 times. I would hate to have you as a lead. Probably putting your guys in harms way daily to benefit the company for not having the right equipment. What we don't need is leaders like that. Also if you can concentrate when you read I wasn't comparing S-checks to Q=checks, but S-checks to overnight maintenance and C-checks like you stated first. Your losing touch with reality just like the company. I'm disappointed. You seem to be one of the weak links!! :down:

 

[delldude]

point is my dear freind...if we can do the overnight maintenence and 'c' chks...we've got the tooling.why don't you think before you post.
BTW...if you make it to PIT in october...i'll make sure i'm your lead. :blink:

 

[N628AU]

Delldude,

The point is, the tooling is not necessarily there. A lot of stuff that comes up on the line in terms of rigging is accomplished due to a top notch set of mechanics, and about 12 unsung people in a forgotten department in CLT that work 24/7/365 to beg/barter/and steal to get what the mechanics need. I cannot count how many times someone at NW has let us borrow what we needed to get something done when we did not have the tooling, although it may be assigned a tool number in Merlin.

 

[Smartest Loser]

OK now tell us how many you won since Jerry Glass has been on the property.

I have it....PineyBob is really Jerry Glass...!!! LOL

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Delldude,

The point is, the tooling is not necessarily there. A lot of stuff that comes up on the line in terms of rigging is accomplished due to a top notch set of mechanics, and about 12 unsung people in a forgotten department in CLT that work 24/7/365 to beg/barter/and steal to get what the mechanics need. I cannot count how many times someone at NW has let us borrow what we needed to get something done when we did not have the tooling, although it may be assigned a tool number in Merlin.

N628AU,

Lets step back on this subject for a bit. We know the deal on this stuff..because we have lived it on a daily basis for years. The rest just like to argue or debate....and in saying that , I agree that the company has positioned itself logistically short , for just the battle we all are about to face.

Trying to introduce logic..least of all fact to people whom see stuff like what we are speaking of every blue moon is pointless. They only see the circumstance in front of them.

This is where folks like you and I whom have and do support the entire U system have a unique insight as to where we make it ..or break it.

Debating circumstances and issues with people that only see or know about things that are only in their own back yards (PIT for example) , is again pointless....it's all they see unless they luck into an overtime roadtrip.

Don't worry...Dell or Lavman will be back to tell us how to handle it all when a B767 or A330 breaks in FCO or CDG...and I welcome that , My French and Italian need some work anyway(LOL)

I wish I had a dollar for every time an Airbus Check station came to a work stoppage over a tooling issue..or a "NASI" part. Should I reap those dollars all at once? I'd tell this company to go pack sand...and venture off into my own business in a heartbeat.

To continue on the Airbus debacle...should Parts become an issue in a court arguement? A copy of the "Rob Data Base" for the last few years would clearly spell out how poorly the Airbus Fleet has been supported , both internally and from the Vendor/ Manufacturers perspective. Some may wonder who's fault this is? Honestly , there is enough blame to go around for all parties involved.

During the past week I have spoken with our counterparts at UA , NW , HP and B6..and all share a common bond. To a person , we all dread and shudder when the call is regarding an Airbus of any kind. The newest players in the Ulcer sweepstakes has become Frontier and UPS. In regards to Delta...ask any DL AOG coordinator what was the best day of thier career?...and they will say to a man , "The day we retired our last Airbus"....you will not hear the same regarding the L-1011 by the way.

 

[to much time to quit]

BTW...if you make it to PIT in october...i'll make sure i'm your lead. :blink:

I'm sure you can make that happen, since you seem to be pretty TIGHT with management. A yes man that will do whatever he's asked without question.You seem to be one of those will make it work whatever it takes kinda guys, right,wrong or indifferent. It'll be great like having a foreman and lead in one body. Your work will be cut out though, no sitting around doing crosswords, I'll keep you alot busier than what you expect. Although this guy won't be making that PIT trip anytime soon.But I doubt there will be much left of PIT in Oct. Your true colors are beginning to show.And YELLOW is coming to mind. You are the weakest link. GOODBYE

 

[Todd B]

Your true colors are beginning to show.And YELLOW is coming to mind. You are the weakest link. GOODBYE

Lets get back on the topic. ff:

 

[delldude]

Delldude,

The point is, the tooling is not necessarily there. A lot of stuff that comes up on the line in terms of rigging is accomplished due to a top notch set of mechanics, and about 12 unsung people in a forgotten department in CLT that work 24/7/365 to beg/barter/and steal to get what the mechanics need. I cannot count how many times someone at NW has let us borrow what we needed to get something done when we did not have the tooling, although it may be assigned a tool number in Merlin.

so you are trying to tell me when you rig flap angles or aileron travel,you use a ruler?let this be seen on this board where customers view.....duh....you don't do any flight control rigging wthout the MANUFACTURERS APPROVED TOOLING AND METHODS,now do you????
and you may soon see your top notch set of mechanics jury rigging flight controls AS PER THE CLOWN WHO SENT A RJ INTO YOUR CLT HANGAR....SPENDING THEIR DAYS IN SING SING.
so we don't need airbus tooling then to accomplish these checks?we have wizards who know the spec's called for by the manufacturer without tooling and paperwork?seems i read about these types of "maintenence" in the newspaper....

 

[delldude]

I'm sure you can make that happen, since you seem to be pretty TIGHT with management. A yes man that will do whatever he's asked without question.You seem to be one of those will make it work whatever it takes kinda guys, right,wrong or indifferent. It'll be great like having a foreman and lead in one body. Your work will be cut out though, no sitting around doing crosswords, I'll keep you alot busier than what you expect. Although this guy won't be making that PIT trip anytime soon.But I doubt there will be much left of PIT in Oct. Your true colors are beginning to show.And YELLOW is coming to mind. You are the weakest link. GOODBYE

i'll be watching the bid boards with enthusiasm ,mikey. i'll be in TPA this weekend....hows about we do a brew?

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Delldude,

The point is, the tooling is not necessarily there. A lot of stuff that comes up on the line in terms of rigging is accomplished due to a top notch set of mechanics, and about 12 unsung people in a forgotten department in CLT that work 24/7/365 to beg/barter/and steal to get what the mechanics need. I cannot count how many times someone at NW has let us borrow what we needed to get something done when we did not have the tooling, although it may be assigned a tool number in Merlin.

so you are trying to tell me when you rig flap angles or aileron travel,you use a ruler?let this be seen on this board where customers view.....duh....you don't do any flight control rigging wthout the MANUFACTURERS APPROVED TOOLING AND METHODS,now do you????
and you may soon see your top notch set of mechanics jury rigging flight controls AS PER THE CLOWN WHO SENT A RJ INTO YOUR CLT HANGAR....SPENDING THEIR DAYS IN SING SING.
so we don't need airbus tooling then to accomplish these checks?we have wizards who know the spec's called for by the manufacturer without tooling and paperwork?seems i read about these types of "maintenence" in the newspaper....

Delldude,

I think you need to do a re-read. N628AU clearly spelled out that "We" have to beg , borrow and steal at times...what U doesn't actually own. No carrier I've ever encountered has everything..least of all everywhere it might be needed? We all work togther in these times of need...and yes we even help those set on destroying us too. This is indeed a two-way street when it comes to logistics

To link this to asking mechanics to perform less than stellar maintenance on our Acft couldn't be any further from the truth if you tried.

My point...and N628AU's point is plainly this. WE do not have or own everything we need at present...and Yes I believe the company has held back on purchasing many of the supporting items and kits to perfrom the up-coming S-Checks. This I believe is a feeble attempt to better thier supposed position in a legal battle.

The whole thing will boil down to this from the companies side. We don't have everything required...and by going out and buying it , U will position itself in more dire financial shape by honoring the contract to the letter. This is just my opinion..but based on all the other "Shinanigans" this leadership group has pulled on all of us at one point or another....how far off would you say I am?

I realize that you and I may not see eye to eye on the merits of how the IAM has done this or that...and I futher realize that brininging in yet another union in mid-stream of a hell of a up-coming fight is not the answer either.

I just want you to take heed of this fact. We don't have all the tooling required....and we certainly don't have all the parts needed either....but when it comes down to what we are doing at present...We will find a way to cover all the bases when it's required. Trying to link our practices to that of Raytheon and it's outsourced nightmare...is plainly foolish and just confirms your lack of insight on this subject....and love of arguement , for arguements sake only.