Company Lies Again

[jimntx]

I never really hear of other businesses or industry asking for concessions like we do. I know of several people who work with Dupont, GE, Shell Chemical and they may have wage freezes for a period of time, but not pay cuts. Does anyone know any differently????

It's not so much industries as job types today. For instance, a young man I know just graduated from college this month with a degree in Computer Science. At the time I left Texaco (1995) that degree and a good interview could get you $45k to start with a firm offer of employment 6 months prior to graduation. Because of the overseas outsourcing going on in Information Technology and the number of experienced people out of work, the young man is "hoping" to get $38k to start, but it hasn't happened yet.

Even connections don't help. The young man's father is a manager with IBM, and he couldn't even get an interview with them for reasons I won't go into here.

 

[ClueByFour]

Given your stance on this issue, you wouldn't mind if Mesa pilots flew your 1st leg in the morning would you...??

You won't get an answer to that queston. THe comparison in question is raised every time this "pain" stuff is brought about by a certain poster, and the question is never directly answered.

 

[ktflyhome]

Jimntx: Thanks for the reply. It seems too many people on here just want to argue with "you know who".

 

[E-TRONS]

"Oh captain, my captain....."

I thought you sent yourself to the cornfield for good?? I regret to inform you this fact.....YOU sir are the biggest sucker of them all .

Make all the deals you want because one way or another this turkey(UAIR) is going into bankruptcy #2. Probably after all the sheep climb aboard the bus to the slaughter house!! Then your willingful participation will be fine-tuned by the company weasels and endorsed, courtesy of the BK judge.

Never in all my 20 years in aviation have I experienced such a deceitful and undermining management as with the "Robber-Barrons" of UAIR :down:
New CEO or not.....they are indeed an abominable lot :angry:

Stand still long enough and you will fall thru a hole created by the dirt being dug out from under your feet!! Pitiful yet oh so true.

So, if selling your soul and your principles out to these habitual liars then knock yourself out. You will lose anyway and most likely be haunted by your failure to stand up for fairness in the workplace.

Hey Bronner: You can't kill us...we're dead already

IRON, LOSER, TMTTQ: Keep the faith my friends.....our mirrors won't explode when we look into them in the morning .

 

[robbedagain]

my question to usa320 is this: should uair enter ch11 a second time whos is going to protect the ones stuck already in a 13.01 an hr station such as srq or pwm or avp or dtw or abe etc etc? we have not only given up on the fact that we only have 1 airbus 319 a day but we are leaving PAX and BAGS behind daily with today at least some 13 or so people of flts duiring my shift. and that is on top of the fact that the iam sold us down the river and failed to put the life preservers in place all the whil the pilots of mainline want to steal the express jobs. i guess it is only th e pilots that think for themselves and could give rats a$$ about anyone else

 

[BillLumbergh]

I thought the topic was about planes going to MAE, not about Chapter 11 predictions....

We're drifting.

 

[mweiss]

what other industry enjoys wages based on 1990's standards..???

Retail, for one.

 

[mweiss]

At the time I left Texaco (1995) that degree and a good interview could get you $45k to start with a firm offer of employment 6 months prior to graduation.

True, but I think KT was referring to paycuts for existing employees. The thing is, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison to compare union employees to nonunion in this area. What you noted, Jim, is that new hires are getting paid less than before. This is harder to do in unions (though B-scale sort of did this), so the fluctuations one sees among flight attendants apply across the board, in the form of raises and paycuts.

Incidentally, in 1992 that same degree would get $33k without firm offers as far in advance as six months.

 

[jimntx]

True, but I think KT was referring to paycuts for existing employees. The thing is, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison to compare union employees to nonunion in this area. What you noted, Jim, is that new hires are getting paid less than before. This is harder to do in unions (though B-scale sort of did this), so the fluctuations one sees among flight attendants apply across the board, in the form of raises and paycuts.

Just FYI, American Eagle flight attendants are currently in negotiation for a new contract with AMR. In AMR's openers, they are asking for new hire flight attendants--including ones already on the the payroll--to take a pay cut from current rates. That's bad enough as it is, but the truth is that new hires at AE are currently starting at the 4-year step because the company couldn't get anybody to work for the actual first year contractual pay rate which was less than $13/hr. As it stands right now, a new hire works at the same rate of $17.64 (the actual cents may be different) for the first 4 years.

In addition the company is asking to build schedules which would have flight attendants on duty for up to 18 hours/day. This would not include the time needed to get ready for work and/or get to the airport. This would be from sign-in until end of last leg of the day.

 

[openview]

I never really hear of other businesses or industry asking for concessions like we do. I know of several people who work with Dupont, GE, Shell Chemical and they may have wage freezes for a period of time, but not pay cuts.

I kind of agree with the other poster. Apples to oranges. In some industries, technological advancements can increase sales and revenues. In the airline industry, tech. advancement ( the internet) is serving to lower prices for the masses, therefore lower revenue and profits.

Companies more white collar or less unionized, cut positions often, across the board, more quickly and often permanently in a downturn. Therefore, salaries for the most part rebound more quickly. Whereas highly unionized companies resist cuts or are slower to respond, and don't have the mechanisms to eliminate the inefficient areas or workers. Cuts are by seniority therefore always keeping the higher salaried employees. Which in turn effects the rebound of pay levels.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I thought that the injunction that was granted for the company to outsource this work only allowed the 10 aircraft. Does anyone have any more info on this?

 

[700UW]

The injunction was lifted by the appellate court and the grievance sent to arbitration, so the company was free to do what they want pending the decision, but go back and read the letter from Doug Mckeen and you will see what their word is worth


NOTHING

 

[RWerksman]

I kind of agree with the other poster. Apples to oranges. In some industries, technological advancements can increase sales and revenues. In the airline industry, tech. advancement ( the internet) is serving to lower prices for the masses, therefore lower revenue and profits.

What your quoting is only one end of it. The airline industry could leverage technology to it's advantage, but to date it hasnt.

Example One:

There is no reason for me to stand at a counter for 15 min while an agent clicks away changing my flight. Has anyone heard of drag-and-drop? Seriously, it is one of the very few industries I know that is still based on mainframe crap code. "No, you have to type backslash, L, R, 9er...." is not even close to effecient.


Example Two:

Unlimted In-Flight internet: $9.95. This really could be a selling point -- especially for business travelers (like me) and Gen-X/Yers that are really into the internet.


Example Three:

In U's case - a website... that made buying a ticket easy.



Im not even going to touch things like more effecient airplane designes, and better scheduling / boarding based upon computer modeling.

 

[openview]

What your quoting is only one end of it. The airline industry could leverage technology to it's advantage, but to date it hasnt.

All very true and good examples. But it takes money. Considerable money. And USAir doesn't have it at the moment. I say expenditures in IT areas, unless critical, cease.

 

[Tim Nelson]

700UW:

This is just the beginning of the "painful" experience. I understand it's going to get worse since the IAM will not participate in the "Transformation Plan."

Meanwhile, the IAM may still have a choice, then maybe not...

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

USA320Pilot,
if the mechanics suffer then the pilots are going to suffer, the flight attendants, the ticket agents, etc. Do you believe the IAM members are going to suffer while at the same time not affecting other groups or your company?

I mean, let's say the pilots settle for $400 million, so what if the company can not get additional financing because of an extremely unstable labor situation, what good is the pilot settlement then? I do not think Pilots, armed with a new 1113 letter, will be immune.

To put another way, metaphorically, consider your company as a body and it is made up of many parts, one of which is its mechanics. If one part of the body is suffering, then doesn't the rest suffer also?

Like it or not, your company will eventually have to settle with ALL of its labor. Difficult times indeed.

regards,