Airbus "s" Checks

[delldude]

Is it true that the AMFA analysis of the IAM contract, AMFA stated the company has the right to farm out the work under the IAM contract? Its been floating around PHL and just curious if its an urban legend.

if what you say is true,how can a group of you line up to sell your butt out the door?you're telling me then if AMFA agrees this work is legal to farm out its ok then?
i think you better get AMFA'S tune on the 737 work to before you make any rash decisions.if thats what AMFA is relaying then you guys are *DELETED BY MODERATOR* :down: :down:

 

[LavMan]

I guess a320av8r must have been one of the pilots who flew over our picket lines in 92 or got paid to sit at home and not fly.

It is call trade unionism, and your contract gives you the right to honor any picket line against us airways and not face any discipline.

It is called solidarity, was losing your pension not enough?

First Dave and his gang of thieves says it is ok to farmout the bus work next he will make a call to his buddy John O at Mesa and have Mesa pilots fly YOUR planes at $30,000 a year.

It is time to draw the line in the sand.

 

[MrAeroMan]

Let me ask a question here. What if it is determined by the courts/arbitrator or whomever that the Airbus checks are not covered under the IAM agreement. What happens then?

 

[LavMan]

That won't happen all heavy maintenance overhaul is IAM work and covered in our contract, for the past 54 years of history on our side. We have overhauled every single type of plane we fly, there is no exceptions to the scope langauge.

 

[MrAeroMan]

That won't happen all heavy maintenance overhaul is IAM work and covered in our contract, for the past 54 years of history on our side. We have overhauled every single type of plane we fly, there is no exceptions to the scope langauge.

Well you can't say that it won't happen for sure so what if by chance it DOES happen? What then? Management and especially Glass has seen something in the contract that gives them an out and they feel the overhaul isn't covered. Therefore they have begun to plan for a farm out of the work. You can't just sit there and say it won't happen and hope by some miracle it in fact won't happen. What is the backup plan if it goes to a judge or arbitrator and you lose? You can sit under a falling tree and say it's not going to fall on your head but commensense will make you move before it hits you on the knoggin. Your comment is very troublesome in a lot of respects because it shows there isn't a backup plan and you haven't prepared for all the eventualities that could happen.

 

[LavMan]

Remember one thing, the company has nothing to lose if they try and force the issue, plans are in place from the IAM for whatever happens, there is no out in our contract otherwise you would have seen all the fleet types all ready farmed out.

Glass, Siegel and McKeen are not smarter then any of the teams of executives that have run this company, they are just trying to steal whatever they can, and we won't let them.

 

[Dilligas]

[PineyBob,Sep 13 2003, 12:38 PM]

"Well Dilligas if what you say is correct then let's all throw the place under the bus!!!!! I'm serious! If that's their goal and no one has come on this board to refute the allegattion. Then let's short circuit the process so no one cashes out and the suffering is equally distributed!"

----------------------------------------

Piney Bob... The deck is marked and stacked in this poker game. There will be much more suffering, but no equal distribution. I don't know if you read the UAL boards, but last week I posted the scenario reproduced below under the topic discussing UAL's low cost carrier, which was announced to take shape in spring 2004. Do you have an opinion on this scenario?

(The part about Jerry Glass is somewhat tongue in cheek, it was an attempt at gallows humor). I doubt Mr. Glass has the intention to give up his lucrative legal career to become a career airline executive. The systematic destruction of an entrenched organized labor workforce at U will be a powerful reference for future consultant fees, wouldn't it?

On another thread, you commented about management plotting their moves well in advance, I concur. This is unfolding, as we have screamed about each new outrage, they are systematically taking the steps they have scripted well in advance. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a contingency plan in place, so that if the IAM walks out, (in my mind a reasonably high probability), events will unfold that will "shock and awe" the employees and the industry. We are the laboratory for a new fierce anti labor formula.

Thanks for your support of the U employees and your long time business.

Posted on UAL Board last week:
----------------------------------------

Posted: Sep 8 2003, 11:51 PM


Could it be...

October 2003 --

1-US Airways announces contracts with third party maintenance vendors in Alabama for Airbus Heavy Maintenance

2-IAM seeks "self-help" on this major dispute, walks off the job.

3-U responds immediately by more massive layoffs, stating the IAM has crippled the company, closes PIT hub.

November 2003 --

U announces it will be forced to re-enter chapter 11 bankruptcy, with a possible Chapter 7 Liquidation a very real possibility. Dave says "This time, it will not be a "labor friendly" re-organization."

U asks for relief from existing labor contracts to avoid chapter 7. Relief granted.

December 2003 --

The long rumored "unique corporate transaction" is announced, the remaining assets of U will be merged into UAL, without most of the U employees... financing courtesy of the Retirement System of Alabama.

"Too much capacity"; "Consolidation must occur"... no antitrust concerns due to the "ramping down" of the U system the past two years.

Spring 2004 --

The former assets of U converted into the new UAL low cost carrier. Furloughed UAL employees offered callback to LCC with greatly reduced wages and benefits.


Net effect:

-UAL aquires the long desired U east coast operation for no cash.
-Thousands more of the U employees are S-O-L on the street, with no recall rights, easing UAL employee concerns about seniority.
-Dave Siegel retires to Caribbean with obscene amounts of money
-Jerry Glass becomes VP Labor Relations of UAL (BOHICA)
-Laid off UAL employees are offered work (although at a fraction of former standard of living).
-RSA has recouped and profited from their short term investment in U by transforming that into a larger stake in a healthier, more robust UAL
-All Airbus Heavy Maintenance farmed out... to Alabama!

Disclaimer: This is not what I wish to happen, but I think its possible. What do you think?


Good luck to all at UAL and U. (Heaven knows we need it!)

 

[PITbull]

Dilligas states: We are the laboratory for a new fierce anti labor formula.

Dilligas,

Thank you for being on these boards and showing true support of the employees of U and recognizing true human suffering in todays work place. i have been waiting for you for a very long, long time on these boards. You and I are of the same "mind set" along with mrplanes. It is the bigger picture, the bigger assult that is unfolding...IT IS THE BUSINESS PLAN!

It is exactly as you say, and will be played out...

When it occurs, personally, I will not lift one finger to assist this mangement to bluncheon the rest of the employees at U in their most comfortable insedious , demoralizing manner for the sake of profits for this mangement or some benign threat of "liquidation" to save Bronner's investment.

Management has not shown 1 sign of respect towards our collective bargaining agreements and the employees.

Presently, there is an IAM member who is gravely ill. I will not devulge his name, but he is in desparate need of a surgery that USAirways medical Summary Description has "capped". The surgery is over $50,000 and U capps the surgery at $15,000 and after appeals U benefits told the member to go out and negotiate with hospitals and doctors. Since when have we ever had to beg mangement to cover procedures in U history....and we pay more now than ever with such reduced wages and out of pocket expenses, that we can not even afford to access helath care coverage to save our lives.

Managment is being approached one last time to please help this 30 year IAM member to save his life. If they do not, I will come out against U with such vengence like none ever seen...

No more on our backs!

 

[Smartest Loser]

Here's the way I think it's gonna play out....

1. USAirways WILL try to send a Airbus out to 3rd. party.

2. IAM files court papers...

3. Judge hears case...puts hold on any future Airbuses going out.

4. USAirways tells the judge... You make us do this and we will be forced to shut the doors. We have no money for this kind of investment.

5. Judge orders both parties to meet.

6. USAirways tells IAM to hold a vote with members...AGAIN..!!

7. IAM tells members..Vote NO to send work out and USAirways files for
Chapter 7..Vote YES to send work out and USAirways will keep as many as they can...( I bet )

8. Vote held.....

9. IAM thrown off property...Airbus checks gone..

10. Employees suffer more and more and more

 

[USA320Pilot]

Dilligas & PineyBob:

Dilligas said: “However it becomes more obvious with each new assault on the employees (and passengers - customers ), that this is not the business plan. There is no marketing plan for a reason. What is our identity and product? What we are witnessing and living is the systematic controlled demolition of US Airways until the small remnants left can be liquidated to allow the Dave's to take their profits and run.â€￾

PineyBob said: “Well Dilligas if what you say is correct then let's all throw the place under the bus!!!!! I'm serious! If that's their goal and no one has come on this board to refute the allegattion. Then let's short circuit the process so no one cashes out and the suffering is equally distributed!.â€￾

Chiip comments: Apparently the ATSB, GECAS, Bank of America, RSA, Goldman Sachs, Aviation Acquisition, L.L.C, and OCM Principal Opportunities Fund do not agree with Dilligas' comments, who all are putting their money where their mouth is by investing in US Airways, because the investors believe US Airways has a viable business plan.

I believe the core issue is industry fundamentals are permanently changing due to LCC expansion. Rising fuel prices, the Iraqi War, & SARS were all temporary problems, but the LCC threat is a permanent structural shift in the airline business model.

The employee challenge is none of us like what’s occurring to legacy carriers, but to survive US Airways and the other network airlines must continue to cut costs just like American Airlines CEO Don Carty said in his interview in Friday’s USA Today. See column below:

Carty: Airlines must cut costs

Separately, by comparison, if United Airlines is so strong, why has nobody offered to invest in the Chicago-based airline and US Airways has eight long-term investors, all of whom are leading investment firms?

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[LavMan]

Chip, let Siegel call Orenstien and outsource all aircraft flying to Mesa and see how fast the pilots react.

 

[Dilligas]

Apparently the ATSB, GECAS, Bank of America, RSA, Goldman Sachs, Aviation Acquisition, L.L.C, and OCM Principal Opportunities Fund do not agree with Dilligas' comments, who all are putting their money where their mouth is by investing in US Airways, because the investors believe US Airways has a viable business plan.

Ya think? Well, doggone! I must be onto something then.

I don't know if they do agree with me or not, I haven't been privy to those deals or conversations. I make no illusions about having connections to the rich and powerful or discussing corporate strategy with them. They may agree with my forecast but have seen an opportunity to exploit for financial gain. Have them give me a call or drop me an email and I'll enlighten 'em.

How is it that you ARE knowledgeable as to what they believe? I've made many investments in companys that I didn't believe had a viable business plan, but there was a market opportunity to turn some quick coin. And if my investment was secured by some aircraft, capital equipment, or engines, maybe I would get out the checkbook too.

Do you think Glass wants to be a day to day airline exec ? I don't. I think we are the guinea pigs and poster children for "How I broke one off in Labor, big time ,and had a great time doing it". Oh lawdy, the consultant fees in the future make my head spin!

Do you think Sweet Home Alabama Dave woke up last year and wanted to be an airline CEO? I don't. I think as a professional investor he saw an opportunity and had the means and the cajones to pull it off. He isn't going to play the game unless he knows ahead of time who the winner is.

I wouldn't put a lot of credence into those named entities having "faith in the US business plan" because I believe some have something to secure their investment. What happened to the last group of investors that had "faith in the US Business plan"? Hmm, if I remember they got nada for their stock. If it becomes available (big if) for purchase, I'm not putting the doggie treat money into this outfit. There ain't enough lipstick for this pig.

In my opinion, RSA will parlay this investment in U into a stake in a reorganized UAL. I think thats one of the reasons why Dutta is here. Thats just my take on it. I never said UAL was healthier now, but I believe when the dust shakes out, perhaps by next summer, UAL will be. They have a huge pension problem to resolve and I don't think the legislative relief will materialize. Here's a shocker you won't read on this board much... I may be 100% wrong!

I agree there has been a paradigm shift in this industry, but not with your placement of U. U is now at best a second tier carrier, we don't belong in the same thinking as the UAL's and AMR's, etc. That's what "super regional" means to me. We just don't "fit" anywhere, I remember some tall guy named Stephen said that a few years back, and I agree. We are a starving dinosaur, and the asteroid is approaching at high speed.

Lowering costs is only a part of the solution. IF so, lets quit buying fuel, its quite an expense... lets stop changing tires and brakes, heck, let's park them planes, they cost too much to operate. So then we'd be in high cotton because we cut our costs, right ?

It's also the REVENUE. Many big companies have whole departments, called Marketing, that seek ways to boost a company's revenue. They do strange things, like advertise, listen to their customers needs and address those needs. They treat their customers with respect and strive to earn their business and respect. What a concept! Whats the thinnest book in the library of business? "Marketing Practices at US Airways".

Labor gave Wolf the tools he said he needed. Labor has given, and given, and given. Dave has the tools, but he has blown it. IMHO, he has offered no leadership and lacks integrity. But then, I don't chat with him daily or email him. Wouldn't do it either, because I don't respect what he's done.

Wishful thinking and progaganda don't change the harsh realities. I want the good and decent people that have given the best part of their working lives to this company to wake up, say NO MORE, get us someone in management that wants to operate an airline and we will do our jobs, or shut this thing down now and lets move on with our lives. This east coast franchise should have been a license to print money but greed and mismanagement has put us on very thin ice.

 

[PITbull]

Chip,

Thanks for your post above. Just validates my thinking all the more that this was all a "union busting " scheme and USAirways was the testing ground for all other carriers to thereaten the same plan, same time, same station.

"Domino affect" in full gear. Just ask mangement about that. They know all too well what that means.

I knew back in the winter that there would be NO LIQUIDATION! I believe you knew it as well chippy, but took another overt view, cause you were hoping to veer anagement OFF the pension arena.

YOu didn' succeed there unfortunately. Perhaps you should have focused more energy on the known truth back in the winter and convinced your collegues the real truth of what this mangement is and represents to the workers at U. You may have had a chance to save the pension way back then.

Now all you can look forward to is your shares of stock, and hope for the best on that end. It will never cover your pension or come close. But, may give you a "feel good" situation to just be a "part" of a winning team. Small minds need to think small.

 

[diogenes]

Dilligas,

Well said!


Don't pay any attention to Chip; he can't wait to throw the rest of us under the bus to stay left seat mainline.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PITBull:

I agree with almost all of your comments above and in my opinion the "Real Story behind US Airways' Restructuring" is union busting and dramatically lowering labor expense, across-the-board, towards LCC expenses. Although it was possible, I did not believe US Airways would end up liquidating, however, I did believe the US Airways ALPA pension plan would likely have to be terminated for the company to emerge.

Although nobody truly knows for sure, the NPC Credit Card agreement, RSA, GECAS, BOA, ATSB, IRS, & PBGC requirements could have forced a Chapter 7 liquidation, at least in Judge Mitchell's eyes.

In regard to the ALPA pension issue, I knew the pension was going to be terminated and my posts did have an "ulterior" motive, but it was different from what you suggested, which is something I do not want to publicly discuss.

Respectfully,

Chip