AFA Labor Thread Aug 27- Union Issues Here

[safety stud]

JetBlue is non-union and their FAs fly transcon turns.

A... We ARE UNION...
B... We Aren't JETBLUE...
C... What's your point?

 

[safety stud]

With respect to everyone...

Let's ponder the real questions. Do we sit here and wait to see what the pilots and FAA have to say about OUR duty rigs, SKED rules, etc... or do we negotiate something better than what we have now. The theory that divided we fall is only in your mind. You see, we can no longer sit idol and let others make choices for us.

For years on the east, there have been many a union meeting with only a handfull attending, yet if you judge what is being said on this board, you would think the voices are strong and loud. They are not... They are meek and afraid.... Afraid to make difficult decisions... Afraid to change... How many people have said they voted NO on the last contract you have talked to? Did many people say YES?... The proof is in the CBA we have now...

Look around you... Look in your own neighborhood and look at what America is dealing with. These are difficult times. And with difficult times come difficult decisions... The climate of business has changed... You can see it since 9/11... And much more so since the basis of our CBA was negotiated more than 30 years ago. 30 years folks.... Are you really ready to do more of the same, wait and see, sit and do nothing for yourself?

Stand on your own two feet. Stand proud. Have ONE voice...
I don't know about you...(and I hate to use this phrase)... "I AM MAD AS HELL, AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE"...

Change is the ONLY way meaningful improvments in our quality of life will occur. Remember, you vote with your consciencce. It is not a north or south thing, It is not an east west thing... It is reality. It is your livelyhood. It is your ability to make your mortgage and car payments, send your kid to school, plan for your retirement... Don't let others make your decisions for you...

Just my opionion...

 

[hp_fa]

I can't speak factually from an East perspective, but I suspect that it is similar to my West perspective which hasn't changed since I left the airline.

The problem is that the reserve issues generally involve only a minority of the voting members. The block holders are not going to support a plan that puts them on reserve. It is sad, but it is true. They have theirs and they don't want any part of being on reserve and they will vote accordingly, whether it is a CBA or for elected reps who will maintain the status quo concerning who is and isn't subject to being on reserve.

 

[flybynite]

I am going to jump in here and say that at the former AWA we generally made sure that all the women, pilots and FA's, were safely in their rooms before the men entered theirs. We simply thought of it as good manners. If other airlines do differently it isn't a function of their contracts per se, but other issues.

Duty rigs can, and are, worked into contracts. Take a look at the West contract and you will see that they have duty rigs, despite not usually being paired with the pilots for the whole trip.

The west f/a's duty rig is 1 for 4. Pretty pitiful if you ask me. What's the west pilot's duty rig?

 

[hp_fa]

The west f/a's duty rig is 1 for 4. Pretty pitiful if you ask me. What's the west pilot's duty rig?

For FA's the trip pays the greater of:
1. The actual block time;
2. The total trip duty time divided by 2; or,
3. The total time away-from-base divided by 4.

 

[flybynite]

What I meant to say was the wording will be critical. Is this 12 hours from block to block or check in to check out? Or from the time you get to your hotel on an overnight? I mean the term duty vs block is huge. That's what I meant about "how deep" it will go...no one knows.

The wording is very critical. I agree wholeheartedly.

But what is even more critical is the FAA has deemed it finally necessary to rewrite the regulations for the pilots but apparently not for the f/a's. Why??

Am I chopped liver hanging out on a jumpseat?? The pilot's get appropriate rest but I don't?? Who the hell is doing the evac?? Who the hell is doing the CPR??

Is AFA National involved with the rewriting of these rules? Are we included??

 

[beachboy]

No. Why ask why? Didn't you get the memo. AFA is now a dictatorship.

 

[HP2USFA]

Our negotiating teams on both sides are quite adept.

But even the best negotiating team on Earth can't squeeze anything out of a company that refuses to negotiate in good faith or even at all.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Our negotiating teams on both sides are quite adept.

Don't you mean INEPT? :unsure:

 

[N965VJ]

Don't you mean INEPT? :unsure:

They could care less.

 

[galley princess]

Sigh.

BANKRUPTCY CONTRACT.

LIQUIDATION THREATENED.

NOT AMENDABLE UNTIL 2011, ACTUALLY 2012 FOR ANY TYPE OF LEVERAGE.

MERGER WITH ULTRA LOW COST CARRIER WITH ULTRA LOW COST EMPLOYEES.

Whole new attitude, no longer customer focused, dollar focused. When you have a company concerned only with squeezing every last penny from both customers and employees they're not going to be easy to negotiate with. Add that to DP's read that he has the least paid employees in the air, what's the incentive to negotiate?

Answer: NONE.

AFA can't get blood from a stone. That's not being inept, that's reality. I've said it before, put your house in order because the only way to get a decent contract from this bunch is to take them to the wall. They inherited LTO and they're not going to give it up on the cheap. We're going to have to inflict a good amount of pain first.

Anyone who expects a contract before CHAOS is dreaming. They want cheap employees as long as they can have them.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Anyone who expects a contract before CHAOS is dreaming. They want cheap employees as long as they can have them.

God forbid we rock the boat.....

"I have PUJ next month on the 190 and the time I save NOT doing pre-departure beverages I can spend more time $$$$ hawking cash cow"

"It really doesn't affect me, but Mike F said he is going to get us 10 hour turns and we will be able to get our time in 10 days or fly 200 hours a month"

"It's OK anyway.....I heard from a friend who knows someone and it's official: we are merging with AA in January"

Dream on - but please clean out the current LEC and MEC and negotiating committee. AFA needs someone in the union that actually negotiates from recent experience ......not memories of their time on the line 30 years ago. Hold the Tempe tools accountable.....and when it's blatantly evident that they have no interest in seriously negotiating....

Then the Chaos will begin


"But then again I have MON-THUR STT and my son is playing football, daughter has ballet, and I am too busy to volunteer. I'll let the junior people fight that fight since it doesn't affect me..... I just work here to get away from my kids and husband......."

Or then again maybe not..... the brain trust out west knows this ........

TLV going to the RSVs yet as predicted???

The Pilots and F/As are predictable - just look at our track record.

Time to stand up instead of bending over - only time will tell if this group is serious :angry:

 

[Dorf]

With respect to everyone...

Let's ponder the real questions. Do we sit here and wait to see what the pilots and FAA have to say about OUR duty rigs, SKED rules, etc... or do we negotiate something better than what we have now. The theory that divided we fall is only in your mind. You see, we can no longer sit idol and let others make choices for us.

But what if your "improvement" turns out to be less than what you could have gotten if you waited for the new rest rules from the FAA? Not that it matters anyway, with the (mis)management team in Tempe, you won't get an agreement with them before the new rules come out anyway. The only problem, like someone else posted earlier, what if the company agrees to your "improvement" before the rules come out and then refuse to re-visit them when the new rules (FAA) would be better for you?

From what I have read/seen from your management and the federal government(FAA), I don't have confidence in anyone getting much more than lip service instead of actual needed rest/safety improvements.

Dorf

 

[FlightChic]

Here is another concern of mine. I am so sick of junior people with very little transatlantic experience being juniored into the CSD position! I remember when I was in PHL talking to reserves who would be forced to be the CSD and D on a trip while all the senior f/as worked in the back or where they would make the junior f/a be the CSD yet the senior f/as wouldn't help out and would be very mean or try to boss the CSD around and try to tell him/her what to do! How can someone deliver the best service that envoy pax deserve when f/as are being juniored into an unfamiliar position and don't know what to do and have little support from the crew? I sincerely believe Mike needs to implement a purser/CSD program where you have to go through special training and only those f/as can work envoy or be the purser. I'm sure someone will say that goes against seniority or will never work but trust me it is a problem and it isn't just happening to junior reserves I have seen it happen to blockholders are perhaps have 25 years whereas the rest have 40. It's not right! I have worked with flight attendants in the past who were CSDs who really should not have been because of how rude they are. I wish they would only let flight attendants with a good track record be in the program so they rude and bitter ones who just want the extra money or who are on a power trip can't be a CSD. I mean, imagine being a passenger and spending all that extra money for an envoy ticket and having to put up with a surly flight attendant who doesn't care. OK I know I am just dreaming.

 

[ebwgs]

Here is another concern of mine. I am so sick of junior people with very little transatlantic experience being juniored into the CSD position! I remember when I was in PHL talking to reserves who would be forced to be the CSD and D on a trip while all the senior f/as worked in the back or where they would make the junior f/a be the CSD yet the senior f/as wouldn't help out and would be very mean or try to boss the CSD around and try to tell him/her what to do! How can someone deliver the best service that envoy pax deserve when f/as are being juniored into an unfamiliar position and don't know what to do and have little support from the crew? I sincerely believe Mike needs to implement a purser/CSD program where you have to go through special training and only those f/as can work envoy or be the purser. I'm sure someone will say that goes against seniority or will never work but trust me it is a problem and it isn't just happening to junior reserves I have seen it happen to blockholders are perhaps have 25 years whereas the rest have 40. It's not right! I have worked with flight attendants in the past who were CSDs who really should not have been because of how rude they are. I wish they would only let flight attendants with a good track record be in the program so they rude and bitter ones who just want the extra money or who are on a power trip can't be a CSD. I mean, imagine being a passenger and spending all that extra money for an envoy ticket and having to put up with a surly flight attendant who doesn't care. OK I know I am just dreaming.

"OK I know I am just dreaming. "

Honey you're not just dreaming you're rambling.