AFA Labor Relations Thread 12/30-

[Onestep2flt]

Mike did what WE wanted. He didn't start this, but boy he finished it and did what we wanted. Thanks Mike!

I still believe that is one of the roots of your problem. Mr. Flores only does things that help his own cause. He only seems to listen when it is in his favor. I do not believe that his motives are for the good of ALL the flight attendants.

You guys still have Carol that was removed from the MEC by being recalled a few years back. It was said by a friend of mine that at the local union meeting in Philly that there was an overwhelming majority of people that would like to have her recalled from your negotiations committee. Yet there is no word on the status of this. Mr. Flores and his inner circle have kept you guys focused on all the wrong things. Don't get me wrong, Getting Jeff removed was the right thing to do but now it seems the right time to remove Mr. Flores, Carol and the gang to also step away from the table. I do not understand how someone who has not flown in years and was recalled from your MEC is negotiating your contract. This just makes the argument for professional negotiators all that more feasible. If someone like Carol who for all appearances seems to be out of touch with what is going on, it would seem that a professional negotiator would have no problem reading in to what flight attendants do and negotiate a fair contract for ALL flight attendants. It is as though Mr. Flores and Carol have a select group they are negotiating for.

 

[ebwgs]

I still believe that is one of the roots of your problem. Mr. Flores only does things that help his own cause. He only seems to listen when it is in his favor. I do not believe that his motives are for the good of ALL the flight attendants.

You guys still have Carol that was removed from the MEC by being recalled a few years back. It was said by a friend of mine that at the local union meeting in Philly that there was an overwhelming majority of people that would like to have her recalled from your negotiations committee. Yet there is no word on the status of this. Mr. Flores and his inner circle have kept you guys focused on all the wrong things. Don't get me wrong, Getting Jeff removed was the right thing to do but now it seems the right time to remove Mr. Flores, Carol and the gang to also step away from the table. I do not understand how someone who has not flown in years and was recalled from your MEC is negotiating your contract. This just makes the argument for professional negotiators all that more feasible. If someone like Carol who for all appearances seems to be out of touch with what is going on, it would seem that a professional negotiator would have no problem reading in to what flight attendants do and negotiate a fair contract for ALL flight attendants. It is as though Mr. Flores and Carol have a select group they are negotiating for.

Very interesting post.

 

[Travelpro72]

I also agree. I want to know what the status of Carol's recall. I was at the last local 70 meeting and the room certainly did vote for the majority to get her out of there. While Carol is crafty at her wording contractual language how easy does it make many intricate instances? The company is able to twist the current language to their advantage constantly due to "her wording". She was recalled and should be gone.

 

[VAflyGal]

I also agree. I want to know what the status of Carol's recall. I was at the last local 70 meeting and the room certainly did vote for the majority to get her out of there. While Carol is crafty at her wording contractual language how easy does it make many intricate instances? The company is able to twist the current language to their advantage constantly due to "her wording". She was recalled and should be gone.

John brought the motion forward at the MEC meeting and it was voted down by the LECP's.

They casted a few votes to recall her but certainly not all that were needed to get it moving.

She and her number two pencil lives on.

Can we talk about this ridiculous out of base OPR fiasco? 13 hour duty day for 2 dh's and 3.30 - which, in my opinion, the whole out of base opr is viloating the contract anyway...

Hello, Paul Kinsey? Are you there? Earth to the Sandcastle - can you guys please get the staffing model right? Many a sickation is gonna result from this abuse if it keeps up.

 

[Onestep2flt]

John brought the motion forward at the MEC meeting and it was voted down by the LECP's.

They casted a few votes to recall her but certainly not all that were needed to get it moving.

She and her number two pencil lives on.

This is where you guys must get the word out. The local leaders are suppose to represent you! You must call them daily and tell them this is not acceptable and that she must go and why you feel that way. Make sure that others are doing this as well. I have been told that Mr. Flores likes to try to say things like this is the first time he has heard anything about this. Don't allow him to say this. Make sure that others are saying it too. Now is a good time to be looking at what your constitution and bylaws say about proper steps to make sure that that procedure is followed not only by you but your Representatives. Another thing that a friend of mine said that goes on is they like to say that you did not follow proper procedure. Of course you are not told of this until you ask why there is no follow up months latter. Make sure you don't let them use any excuses.

I wish I could be of help. I really feel for your situation. I really encourage you to make it your mission to talk with anyone that will listen as to why you feel she is not representing you as a whole group. Many have pointed out that just venting your frustration on this board does not get the change needed for a new contract. While this is true, It is a great place to get the message out. It should be taken to the next level though.

This so called joint contract that you guys are trying to get has been going on for over four years now. There of course is a lot of posturing on both sides that drags things out, but four years is a long time and it appears that your management wants to play ball with someone else now. Can you imagine how many more years it will drag out with three carriers in the fold. I think a new contract sooner rather than later is a better approach. Of course with the present negotiations team I am not sure that is all that advisable either.

I have heard that many ideas are presented to Mr. Flores that get shot down almost immediately. He might have valid reason for some but due hold him to the flames and have him give thorough reasons for why it would not be feasible. Don't just take anything that any union rep says at face value. Remember, YOU are the union and they have been put in these positions to represent the views of ALL flight attendants. There are going to be times where they have to make decisions that you don't necessarily agree upon. Just make sure it is because it is to protect ALL flight attendants. I don't believe your current negotiating committee is doing that based on what I have witnessed with my friends who have to live under the current contract.

A good example is that there seems to be no effort to hold your management to the contract that is in place right now. A new contract is only as good as the enforcement of the contract you have in place now. However, there is responsibility on your part to make it known of a violation. The thing you sited about OPR. Look it up and read what it says. If you find language to your cause then bring it up to your local leaders. Be able to give the specific language that backs you up. Remember, even the union reps don't have every word of your contract memorized. However, if you have a section that backs your assumption up, they at the very least must clarify for you what it actually says or investigate further. If you are not satisfied with their answer then ask the next person in the food chain. You can't just call and say that you think that they are violating your contract and hope they will do something about it.

I hope you guys get a contract soon, but I also hope it is something that represents your WHOLE group and that everyone benefits from it and not a select few.

 

[Travelpro72]

FYI if you do OPR out of base your OPR starts when your plane LANDS...not when scheduling tell you. FACT! ! ! ! Don't let them get you to CLT and sit for an hour or so before your OPR shift starts. NO and demand a supervisor on the phone if this happens. Seems to be the norm lately. Ya know, I will NOT allow my contract to be violated and will probably land in the supervisors office cause next time? I'm hanging up. I'm so to the point of over their crap.

 

[BajaBabe]

where did they get this idea? seems like it has to do with collusion.Looks like the folks you THOUGHT would advocate for Reserves forgot what it was like in the trenches........................

 

[flybynite]

I know I'm a little late in this discussion, but why did they want to recall Carol?

 

[BajaBabe]

I do not know or rather do not feel that I am able to speak for the 90% who did vote to have her recalled. My issue is that no one can be so busy and never have to fly. Carol has not engaged the line for quite some time. She is afforded benefits that none of us have. Carol will not be able to present a Contract because they will be distracted by her aghast attitude towards the flight attendants.I wish her the best but will never defend the perks and isolation garnered by her position .

 

[VAflyGal]

I know I'm a little late in this discussion, but why did they want to recall Carol?

We feel that she is not representing all flight attendants fairly in negotiations. She hasn't flown in years, she doesn't communicate with us on a regular basis, she doesn't include the mec reserve chair in the process anymore, and the RIDICULOUS rsv proposal that we have is a joke. Over four years at the table and it's abhorrant.
She's out of touch in a lot of ways and there is not one reserve on the jnc. We got tired of being stonewalled by those who supposedly have our best interests in mind.

 

[flybynite]

We feel that she is not representing all flight attendants fairly in negotiations. She hasn't flown in years, she doesn't communicate with us on a regular basis, she doesn't include the mec reserve chair in the process anymore, and the RIDICULOUS rsv proposal that we have is a joke. Over four years at the table and it's abhorrant.
She's out of touch in a lot of ways and there is not one reserve on the jnc. We got tired of being stonewalled by those who supposedly have our best interests in mind.

I thought Mike was the head or I guess team leader of the JNC for the east. And he's the one who communicates for the JNC east.
I know she's on the team but how can you hold her responsible the slow progress of the negotiations? It's the company that's been dragging their feet.

I'm playing devil's advocate here so don't pounce.

As for they're not being a rsv on the JNC, I not sure it's possible given the type of meeting schedule the JNC has. I wouldn't know if the MEC RSV chair is being included in proposals or not. Has she said she's been locked out of discussions?
And which rsv proposal is ridiculous? I know there are several that the company has agreed to that sounded decent to me. Like the RAPs.

And who's stonewalling you?

Just questions. Not trying to start an argument.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Who's Carol???

I was displaced from LGA in February and as of mid-May I STILL (as do probably all former LGA FAs) do not have an AFA mailbox? Y'all know her but being a "new hire" I would LUV to get some mail!

 

[Onestep2flt]

Who's Carol???

I was displaced from LGA in February and as of mid-May I STILL (as do probably all former LGA FAs) do not have an AFA mailbox? Y'all know her but being a "new hire" I would LUV to get some mail!

Don't worry, I think there are people that have been with your company forever that do not know her. It might be they just forgot. She was recalled several years back from your MEC. Carol is one of the negotiators for your contract. I have no clue how that came to be as I am an outsider with friends at US that only give me the bits that they know. Also Mr. Flores is your MEC president and is also negotiating your contract. Of course that is just one more problem you guys have. This is not intended to offend, but nobody has a clue who has their futures in their hands. I know if I had to live under a contract for the next few years I would make every effort to get to know who these people were like yesterday. I hope you will get involved because it is going to be too late before you know it.

Carol negotiated the contract you have now! To be fair it was done in Bankruptcy. That being said I believe she gave up far more than the company could have ever dreamed. There also seems to be poorly written language that has too many outs for the company to utilize. Also would appear that not all flight attendants were represented at the table. Big disparity with the language and protections for reserves. One thing that was just pointed out to me was in your constitution and by laws. I will have to check this one out further as I don't have access so I can only go on what I was told. It was said that it states that one of the main principles for the union was to negotiate for the flight attendants based on seniority. It would seem your entire reserve situation certainly falls outside of these principles with things like the LTO system you have in place. (Again, I have not read for myself so would hope someone in the know could verify the exact language.)

I am just thinking out loud right now. The only point I was trying to make is that I hope you will get to know a little about who is negotiating your contract.

 

[beachboy]

She is the great Wizard of AFA OZ! Pay no attention to the gal behind the curtain!!!! h34r:
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Really, you are the first person I have met that does not know much about Carol. That said, she has never been successfully recalled. The woman is smart and has carved herself out to be the gate keeper. If she leaves there is a great void that will need to be filled. Both AFA and the company are fine keeping the status quo.

While I respect Carol on one level, I loath her the next. She has NEVER worked under the last contract she negotiated! She has never picked up trash. She has never sold drinks or BOB. She is just out of touch! You need to understand your members issues before you negotiate anything. Carol, it's time someone brought you down to Earth. You are a horrible communicator and you ramble on with "Carol-ism's" aka examples that make you want to slam back a Tequila shot. My wish for you is that you walked among the people your represent.

 

[VAflyGal]

And which rsv proposal is ridiculous? I know there are several that the company has agreed to that sounded decent to me. Like the RAPs.

And who's stonewalling you?

Just questions. Not trying to start an argument.

No pouncing. I will address this tomorrow. I'm exhausted at the moment.

Standby...