AAA thread 11/2-11/8

[700UW]

No the company agreed to negotiate a new cba for the combined groups, if you were under section 6 negotiations one side or the other would have filed for mediation under the NMB jurisdiction.

And then the steps of the RLA would be in place, which they are not as you do not have the right to strike as you on the East and the transition agreement does not fall under Section 6 Negotiations.

The West does have that right to request a mediator assigned to there negotiations when and if they ever take place.

CBAs under the RLA do not expire, they become amendable, that is why the status quo language exsists.

 

[end_of_alpa]

No the company agreed to negotiate a new cba for the combined groups, if you were under section 6 negotiations one side or the other would have filed for mediation under the NMB jurisdiction.

And then the steps of the RLA would be in place, which they are not as you do not have the right to strike as you on the East and the transition agreement does not fall under Section 6 Negotiations.

The West does have that right to request a mediator assigned to there negotiations when and if they ever take place.

CBAs under the RLA do not expire, they become amendable, that is why the status quo language exsists.

Look, I know you are trying to somehow "poke me in the eye" and an "in your chest" finger. Don't worry, I understand.

Let me "refraise".

The East is under LOA 93 until 2010.

The West is able to enter Section 6.

The company, for the purposes of the transition agreement, has agreed to negotiate with BOTH sides to form a new contract. (It takes Both parties to a CBA to agree to open early if they BOTH choose)

The company has offered both sides parity for the East + 3 percent equivalent to 122 mil. per year.

Self help is ultimately availible for the West if and when they choose.

Self help for the East will not be until basically 2010.

I hope that will somehow mollify you. Somehow, I don't think it will. I know that you have worked hard to be respected and I can understand your frustration and inferiority complex is working ovetime. I hope this helps. Thanks for the "correction".

 

[700UW]

Nope, no poke in the eye or chest nor a inferiority complex, just posting the facts.

 

[BoeingBoy]

700US,

In a sense, you're really talking semantics. Your examples all cite a single employee group at a single airline that changed bargaining agents. Of course their existing CBA remained in effect despite the change in bargaining agent.

At US, unlike those examples you cited, you have members of the same employee groups (pilots, F/A's, mechanics, etc) at the two pre-merger carriers working under different CBA's (and some having had two different bargaining agents). Per agreements with the company, the two pre-merger operations can't be completely consolidated until a single CBA is negotiated for certain employee groups. So while the negotiations don't constitute section 6, they are for all intents and purposes the same since most sections of the two CBA's each of these groups work under is different. The only major difference from section 6 negotiations is that there is no provision for a cooling off period followed by self-help.

This is far from uncharted territory - it happens during many, if not most, airline mergers where unionized groups are involved. And while not section 6 negotiations, it is negotiating a contract.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Jim,

You failed to realize I meant if there is a change in representation on the East side.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You failed to realize I meant if there is a change in representation on the East side.

The same still applies - the current CBA's remain in effect until changed via joint contract negotiations. If that doesn't happen, they remain until section 6 - at least in theory.

However, even if only the East pilots change bargaining agent, how long will it be before a SBU ruling is sought (and the result is obvious). If USAPA is successful, they'll be the bargaining agent for both sides long before the amendable date of LOA93. So the effect will be the same - the bargaining agent (whoever it is) will almost certainly negotiate a new contract for both groups. If that proves impossible, the situation remains basically as it is now - two groups operating under separate contracts with the West contract amendable now.

Basically, all I'm saying is that you're technically right - changing unions doesn't automatically result in section 6 negotiations. But the merger is the mechanism for the contracts to be renegotiated, just outside section 6. After all, East is a textbook case of contracts being renegotiated outside of section 6......

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yeah we all have seen your little picture on the site of the usapa plaque and the cards..........

I had to come back to this comment. As I said earlier, you must not "read too well and comprehend even less".

The "plaque" you so want to reference is in fact a hand made box in which to carry the cards in. Instead of looking at the picture, try reading the rest of the story. It keeps things in perspective.

 

[Bear96]

You are stating that you are or were never an F/A for United?

I have stated my work history with UA here many times. Your obsession with it is a bit creepy.

 

[AWA320]

I had to come back to this comment. As I said earlier, you must not "read too well and comprehend even less".

The "plaque" you so want to reference is in fact a hand made box in which to carry the cards in. Instead of looking at the picture, try reading the rest of the story. It keeps things in perspective.

It wasnt worth reading!! You organization is weak with no REAL money no REAL hope of survival and as usual in true AAA fashion no REAL plan!!

Short on cards as evidence by not filing and short on brains no explaination necessary

 

[end_of_alpa]

Nope, no poke in the eye or chest nor a inferiority complex, just posting the facts.

Thanks much, 700UW. I know you are and I appreciate that. Had to get up earlier than normal this morning. Hard to keep the facts straight with sleep still in your eyes. Keep helping us stay on course.

We're all RLA. Let's hope we all don't become SOL!!!! ;-)

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It wasnt worth reading!! You organization is weak with no REAL money no REAL hope of survival and as usual in true AAA fashion no REAL plan!!

Short on cards as evidence by not filing and short on brains no explaination necessary

Worth it or can't? Your entitled to your opinions. As I've always said to you, our timetable is not dictated by your rantings, challenges or goading. And yes we do have a plan. So you can rest easy and enjoy.

 

[end_of_alpa]

SkyWest Pilots Vote Against ALPA

Nothing on the ALPA website. I guess they need to keep it QUIET!

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071107/skywest_union.html?.v=1

 

[sharktooth]

If changing unions negates a seniority arbitration award, does that mean that if USAPA is successful the Shuttle arbitration award is null and void? The US/PI award?

Jim

I am pretty sure a vote by PI to change unions would have been unsuccessful, at that time.

US, with their overwhelming majority, should have changed unions to have the "first" nic award overturned, but, at the time, ALPA Natl was not seen as working to give away compensation and retirement, yet. The outsized majority of outspoken former Shuttle dudes working for "a deal, any deal" as well as the retirement "giveaway" should have been a giant red-flag that something was not as it seemed.

Is there a statute of limitations on such?

Odd for you to ask such an "apples and oranges" question.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Odd for you to ask such an "apples and oranges" question.

Not really, and not so apples and oranges.....

End of Alpa seemed to be initially saying that changing union representation nullified previous seniority awards, so I was asking if that meant nullifing all previous awards. Later posts, after my question, seem to say that the award isn't nullified but merely has no meaning since it can't take effect till there's a joint contract which East could vote down - the same solution that's been available the whole time.

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

A USAPA win would not invalidate any of the arbitrated awards at USAirways east.

Assuming USAPA becomes the bargaining agent AND when that happens there is not already a joint contract ratified and in place, then USAPA would become the contract administrator for TWO contracts (east and west) and TWO separate seniority lists. Both of these lists are already set in stone, and these are the lists with which USAPA will work.

If the joint contract is already in place, then the Nicolau list will automatically be set in place, also. If USAPA then wins as bargaining agent, it will administer the one contract and the Nicolau list. I believe this is acknowledged on the USAPA website, too. Once Nic becomes effective, that's it. And that is also why a new bargaining agent can't change the lists in effect when the election takes place.