AAA ALPA Thread 10/12 to 10/18

[AAA73Pilot]

You mean this? No apologies needed

 

[luvthe9]

http://unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers...9&year=2006 ALPA needs your help. Don't decertify them they won't be able to keep this kind of payroll up :angry:

 

[exB717Flyer]

Just heard this over the weekend. Is it true that save Dave quit and went to FedEx? If true, great for him!! So who is the next in line above Colello?

This rumor seems to resurface every couple of months. Last time, USA320pilot accused me of being in management because I was able to access Dave's line and verify that he hasn't quit. All West pilots have access to this information unless the pilot restricts his/her line. To answer your question this time: no, Dave has not quit. I'm sure I'll be checking again the next time this rumor comes around.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

This rumor seems to resurface every couple of months.

Thanks for checking. If I hear it again this weekend will try to stop it. Amazing isn't it?

 

[twoturnin]

Ive been hearing rumblings about side letters to the N award---as one way to fix the mess between pilot groups--would seem like a good time to come in with a list of side letters for all to look and see if anything is for real-----from out of the magic hat comes a big white WABBIT----I hear tell the"maybe" bad news is National could become involved as SS storm troopers and really ram this thing down our throats if the MEC tell's National to drop dead over the issue---who knows :blink:

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ive been hearing rumblings about side letters to the N award---as one way to fix the mess between pilot groups--would seem like a good time to come in with a list of side letters for all to look and see if anything is for real-----from out of the magic hat comes a big white WABBIT----I hear tell the"maybe" bad news is National could become involved as SS storm troopers and really ram this thing down our throats if the MEC tell's National to drop dead over the issue---who knows :blink:

Is that good cop bad cop? Side letters and storm troopers. Prater already said his intention was to put the MEC into trusteeship. So he thinks side letters will do the trick huh? Got news for him, Letters or not, an election is coming. Looking forward to watching the good ole boys explain their way out of a lot of issues. It's going to be a good show.

Got called by the Wilson people again. Slanted questions to see if we could be bought. This time though, there were more questions about USAPA. Especially about our supposed "Raid". I think they are beginning to get the picture, this is not a "Raid".

 

[Cactus737]

"

AWARD

The date of hire method of seniority integration proposed by the U.S. Airways Dispatchers is awarded.

RICHARD I. BLOCH, ESQ. April 26, 2007


[9]. This is not to say one could not construct some sort of mid-ground that would attempt to incorporate a methodology utilizing both a mechanical and a date of hire approach. Several factors militate against this. First, these are relatively small units. The West group is comprised of 37 individuals. The East local has 120 active employees with 32 currently on furlough (as of the date of the hearing.) It is logistically difficult to mold a hybrid list, given this small a unit. Moreover, unlike pilot mergers, which often involve companion considerations including aircraft types, differing status and categories and a variety of additional distinctions, the instant case is considerably more basic. These employees, on the other hand, perform the same functions, in essentially the same manner and will operate under a combined agreement that features no fence or any of the other arcane elements peculiar to pilot cases."

Cactus,
Read the award a couple times. I find it refreshingly simple and fair. I do not see in above quote your reference of arb Bloch infering DOH/LOS would not work in pilot cases. The whole post seems to back up what the East (pilots) have been arguing.
Thanks for the post.
FA

I highlighted it in bold so you won't miss it this time.

Also don't forget the part about East dispatchers making alot more money than the West dispatchers.

 

[AAA#6]

To the AAA guys,

I understand the feelings, the history, and Nic award etc. Why the raw emotion? Do you always dictate your future on raw emotion? How can USAPA really serve us (AAA and AWA) better? What is it they offer? Show us the benefits? How is it more economical? How is it more secure when all our competitors are pretty much ALPA? How will this union work if 1900 pilots out West aren't part of the effort? It's pure madness and nothing more than hot emotions running.

We all know USAPA is nothing more than a transparent attempt to try and change the Nic award, there is absolutely no game plan as to what else they offer.

Gordon Bethune once said he loves to negotiate with airline pilots because they are so emotional, instead of being rational and business like. That is the problem with most pilots (not just AAA), instead of having some business sense, they get tied up in "what is owed to them", " I have been here 30 years", " We built this airline". CEO's don't care, they only care about the bottom line. If you don't do the job, they will get someone else. If you threaten to quit, they will show you the door. In fact they'd love to get a 10-20 year employee off the payscale. Life will go on with or without you. So while it feels good to run on emotion (I agree, it's easy to do), we all need to recognize that most bad decisions are based of nothing else than raw emotion. We as pilots must think of ourselves like a business, like a vendor that deserves to get market rates and terms. T

The AAA guys deserve parity and would most likely get it pretty soon if we negotiate a joint contract, but with USAPA it won't happen. Changing over to USAPA is equivilent to the blue screen of death on windows, get ready to reboot all the time. It's a bad program not thought out. A virus!

If say USAPA were to get voted in (which I don't think it will) here is what going to happen:

1. Seniority Award being will not be overturned. It can't, because it is a binding agreement between two parties (AAA pilots and AWA pilots).
Doug won't do anything, because the first letter written by him and Lakefield talked of no employee groups getting a windfall over another. ALPA merger policy was followed and the AAA union acknowledge no wrong doing, it was a fair process, and that Nic was fair and sane. So USAPA will not get any help from Doug, and would most likely get a lawsuit from the West if they go after the Nic award.

2. The AAA guys will have to pay assessments for mounting lawsuits. While there is a lawsuit over the seniority award, West will probably try to get an injuction on a changeover based on the transparency of the USAPA movement.

3. AWA pilots won't pay USAPA dues, and if they were to be ordered by the court to pay, many would press for hardship and reduced payments. Thus stressing the finances of USAPA. AWA pilots won't pull their effort, because USAPA was not created for their interest.

4. Nobody gets a new contract for probably 4-5 years. Everyone is in limbo, and we will be a beautiful takeover target since we have no solid representation. Fact is if US mergers with another ALPA carrier, we all go to the bottom, and still live in limbo with crappy contracts. Yes guys, other than AAL, everyone else is ALPA, and WE (AWA and AAA) will have NO MERGER POLICY to back us up! And if this should happen, the AAA guys would be the ones to blame, because decisions were made on emotion instead of the real interests at heart.

Even though the AWA guys are the minority, they are still a force to be reckoned with. If you are going to have another union it would be wise to have 1900 on your side. Otherwise USAPA will fail. Anything USAPA tries to do will be met with....what is it.................oh yeah.............EMOTION!, from the AWA side.

So you see USAPA will never work. Because it's movement is bent on the Nic award and that's it. There is no betterment for the AWA pilot. There is no UNITY in the equation.

It's time to be rational...not emotional, and really think about securing your FUTURE interests. If you are in your 50's and an AAA pilot, I hope you think twice.

 

[N924PS]

AAA#6,


Hit your foxhole now. INCOMING! INCOMING!

 

[AAA#6]

AAA#6,
Hit your foxhole now. INCOMING! INCOMING!

Is that the propaganda they are dropping over my head. All I need is another organization that loves to print stickers, and make pins!

 

[CV580ETOPS]

Your sense of self-righteousness is really clouding your reading comprehension skills. Hopefully you do a better job reading approach charts.

Please show me where I claimed to speak for anyone else.

I post based on my observations, just as you claim to do. But go ahead, keep on building up this strawman that I claimed to be speaking for others.

Meanwhile, we are all noticing you are dodging the question: What other pilot groups think East is doing the right thing?

<The sound of crickets chirping>


CV580ETOPS

 

[aquagreen73s]

I suspect there are a lot of AAA#6s on the East side, far more than what the USAPA stalwarts care to admit. The only thing I'll add to AAA's post is that there are actually three groups on the property: (1) the East, (2) the West, and (3) the newhires who sure as heck don't want to be dragged into a war that's not theirs. Nearly 500 newhires will be coming onto the property over the next twelve months and they are the ones who are most vulnerable to an economic downturn and/or a merger. I can't imagine that any of them are willing to expose themselves to additional risk by supporting USAPA when USAPA simply cannot do anything for them except screw them. Stop and think for a minute...USAPA preaches DOH yet what's the DOH for all the newhires? Throw in the fact that USAPA would be negotiating against the goliath of United, DAL or NWA, and it doesn't take a giant leap in logic to understand that USAPA is one heck of a giant step backwards for the newhires. Bottom line, it's the USAPA radicals who are the minority and that is clearly evidenced by Prater's threats and actions lately. ALPA National has a handle on the picture and their roadmap is clear. There will be a cramdown, the cramdown will arrive prior to Christmas, and the cramdown will be somewhere between the East/West differences . Although anything other than a pure and unadulterated implementation of Nic is what should happen, the reality is otherwise. The East has already benefitted magnificently over the last few months in terms of pilot upgrades and movement on the seniority list and that will continue for the next several months. Surely the delays piss the West off to no end, but National knows that they can get away with just a "tiny bit of breaching." The whole purpose is to designed to placate enough of the East radicals (older F/Os) and stave off a decertification. The bright side for the West is that there will be a full implementation of Nic sometime in the early Spring.

 

[Phoenix]

To the AAA guys,

How can USAPA really serve us (AAA and AWA) better? What is it they offer? Show us the benefits?

If "us" is looking at it from #6... nothing before "we" retire.

 

[EastUS]

, and WE (AWA and AAA) will have NO MERGER POLICY to back us up!

Whew!...That's a great point, in that the Alpo "merger policy" will/would definately "protect" us all I'd honestly guess that a better chance for list stapling/tossing all AWA/US under the bus, would come from Alpo than anywhere else.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Whew!...That's a great point, in that the Alpo "merger policy" will/would definately "protect" us all I'd honestly guess that a better chance for list stapling/tossing all AWA/US under the bus, would come from Alpo than anywhere else.

You do realise that the ALPA merger policy only applies when there are two pilot groups who are merging and both groups are ALPA, don't you? For a stapling to occur in that case, then it can only come at the hands of a professional arbitrator because when two ALPA pilot groups merge, they go to arbitration. Remove yourself from ALPA and merge with a much larger pilot group and then see what happens. You think you were mistreated by an arbitrator, well just wait and see what would happen when the larger pilot group cuts a deal with your CEO. Remember how "generous" the APA was with a different union? Suddenly an arbitrator wouldn't look so bad.