AWA ALPA Thread 10/12 to 10/18

[EastUS]

The more you post, the more rediculous and convoluted your "logic" appears, my friend.

I certainly appreciate your warm concern. I'll take my chances regardless. As per "my friend"?...I'm somewhat picky as to who's countable as any such.

Since you're assailing "logic", how about you try a response to "Why was date of hire perfectly good for the PSA merger via Alpo?..." This oughta' be fun

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why was date of hire perfectly good for the PSA merger via Alpo?

That's an answer you'd have to seek from a big enough sample of the PSA folks involved at the time to be representative. I personally haven't talked to that many about the subject.

but when it was Piedmont's turn...you found it necessary to have "fought the good fight", your words sir, for slotting and preferential treatment? It's clear that even then, Alpo was naught but a scattering of self interested "tribes" fighting amongst themselves for personal gain. It's also clear to me that during the Piedmont absorption that you were most certainly seeking nothing different from "a policy that says" (Piedmont) "pilots get what they want".

Proof positive that "fair and equitable" is entirely in the eye of the beholder and is never a "one size fits all" criteria. What you call "preferential treatment" and getting "what they want" is what we saw as "fair and equitable" - nothing more than what we brought to the table. So, yes, we did "fight the good fight" and lost. Unlike you and those like you, however, we were man or woman enough to shrug it off as the way the cookie crumbles and move forward.

Jim

PS - Since you've christened me an "ALPO warrior" and other such terms of infantile ridicule, perhaps I should stop taking calls from pilots with questions about their bids for whatever the latest bid happens to be. I've been retired for 11 months and according to you am only interested in screwing the line pilot for amusement. Maybe I should just live up to your ALPO devil stereotype and let them screw themselves because they were too busy polishing their Pitts to pay attention in Bidding 101 class. Heck, better yet I can give them bad info to insure that they get screwed. After all, I wouldn't want to disappoint you......

 

[Tiger 1050]

So, yes, we did "fight the good fight" and lost. Unlike you and those like you, however, we were man or woman enough to shrug it off as the way the cookie crumbles and move forward.

Jim

PS - Since you've christened me an "ALPO warrior" and other such terms of infantile ridicule, perhaps I should stop taking calls from pilots with questions about their bids for whatever the latest bid happens to be. I've been retired for 11 months and according to you am only interested in screwing the line pilot for amusement. Maybe I should just live up to your ALPO devil stereotype and let them screw themselves because they were too busy polishing their Pitts to pay attention in Bidding 101 class. Heck, better yet I can give them bad info to insure that they get screwed. After all, I wouldn't want to disappoint you......

EastUS what say you...?

Hold on, I'm getting my popcorn and a beverage....

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Does anyone on the east side or west who actually pays attention to union issues remember the last major proposed changes to the ALPA Merger Policy? It happened about 10 years ago. The regionals at the time wanted to change the policy to date of hire upon joining ALPA if I remember correctly. UAL, NWA, TWA, DAL and AAA did not want to see that proposed change implemented and further they did not want to see any changes to policy on merging two pilot groups.

To appease the regionals a special national merger committee was appointed by the president and the committee was chaired by a USAirways captain rep from Boston. The committee spent a year working out tweaks to the policy we have today. It was essentially written by the USAir contingent and agreed to by all of the major airlines. The regional DOH proposal was rejected by the committee and the issue sent to the BOD. The status reps from all ALPA airlines at the BOD meeting confirmed the work of the USAirways ALPA chaired committee by also rejecting the DOH proposal.


Bob

 

[EastUS]

PS - Since you've christened me an "ALPO warrior" and other such terms of infantile ridicule, perhaps I should stop taking calls from pilots with questions about their bids for whatever the latest bid happens to be. I've been retired for 11 months and according to you am only interested in screwing the line pilot for amusement. Maybe I should just live up to your ALPO devil stereotype and let them screw themselves because they were too busy polishing their Pitts to pay attention in Bidding 101 class. Heck, better yet I can give them bad info to insure that they get screwed. After all, I wouldn't want to disappoint you......

Knock yourself out. I don't have you on speed dial. If you're service to others is dependant upon hugs and kisses from all, that's your affair sir.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Does anyone on the east side or west who actually pays attention to union issues remember the last major proposed changes to the ALPA Merger Policy? It happened about 10 years ago. The regionals at the time wanted to change the policy to date of hire upon joining ALPA if I remember correctly. UAL, NWA, TWA, DAL and AAA did not want to see that proposed change implemented and further they did not want to see any changes to policy on merging two pilot groups.

To appease the regionals a special national merger committee was appointed by the president and the committee was chaired by a USAirways captain rep from Boston. The committee spent a year working out tweaks to the policy we have today. It was essentially written by the USAir contingent and agreed to by all of the major airlines. The regional DOH proposal was rejected by the committee and the issue sent to the BOD. The status reps from all ALPA airlines at the BOD meeting confirmed the work of the USAirways ALPA chaired committee by also rejecting the DOH proposal.
Bob

C'mon now!!! Stop it! You are exposing their hypocrisy!!!!!!

 

[EastUS]

C'mon now!!! Stop it! You are exposing their hypocrisy!!!!!!

By "their hypocrisy" I assume you mean Alpo's?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Knock yourself out. I don't have you on speed dial. If you're service to others is dependant upon hugs and kisses from all, that's your affair sir.

Wow! Look at that! I guess I got the original quote... Cool.

C'mon East... That's all your going to say? I find you to be, shall we say... verbose, ...usually.

 

[Tiger 1050]

That's an answer you'd have to seek from a big enough sample of the PSA folks involved at the time to be representative. I personally haven't talked to that many about the subject.
Proof positive that "fair and equitable" is entirely in the eye of the beholder and is never a "one size fits all" criteria. What you call "preferential treatment" and getting "what they want" is what we saw as "fair and equitable" - nothing more than what we brought to the table. So, yes, we did "fight the good fight" and lost. Unlike you and those like you, however, we were man or woman enough to shrug it off as the way the cookie crumbles and move forward.

Jim

Jim,
Thanks for all of the insight... I applaud your honesty and sensibility. It seems though that you still find yourself wrapped up in the dog-eat-dog world that is AAA east...

 

[P51Pilot]

PS - Since you've christened me an "ALPO warrior" and other such terms of infantile ridicule, perhaps I should stop taking calls from pilots with questions about their bids for whatever the latest bid happens to be. I've been retired for 11 months and according to you am only interested in screwing the line pilot for amusement. Maybe I should just live up to your ALPO devil stereotype and let them screw themselves because they were too busy polishing their Pitts to pay attention in Bidding 101 class. Heck, better yet I can give them bad info to insure that they get screwed. After all, I wouldn't want to disappoint you......

In anything, peoples motivations to do things are different. For some people a desire to be of service and make things better for the next group or generation is a form of self actualization. There are others who seek the spotlight because they need the self affirmation of a pat on the back, or the "atta boy" comment. There was almost a little USA320 in the above comment.

 

[P51Pilot]

EastUS what say you...?

Hold on, I'm getting my popcorn and a beverage....

Losing, was going to bed at night knowing that the person in front of you on the seniority list was hired before you. Real travesty there. wanting more but ending up with DOH.

 

[P51Pilot]

It seems though that you still find yourself wrapped up in the dog-eat-dog world that is AAA east...

Dog-eat-dog is what ALPA has created and is perpetuating. Wait to see what happens the first time ALPA bluffs a work action. My bet is management will call it, and ALPA will not be willing to go through with it. When you have been corrupt, gutless, and pissed members off by the thousands, there would be no way to predict the results or guarantee unity. Boys and girls, labor has already lost. The only thing John Praeter and ALPA are worried about it, is holding it together and the dues continuing to roll in. Praeter is 56, or 57 and only needs to keep things together for another 3 years to have collected his 1.7 million in salary from ALPA, his pension and Continental which didn't get terminated and hes done. If anyone thinks he is interested in looking any further down the road than 3 years and where the profession is going to end up, people are fooling themselves. And the ALPA attorneys, staffers, secretaries, could give a rats a$$ what the life of pilot is like anymore. All they care about is cash flow, and they will try to make up dues in headcount, with what has been lost by ALPA's piss poor stewardship of the welfare of its members.

 

[Tiger 1050]

By "their hypocrisy" I assume you mean Alpo's?

Did you ever play team sports?

Did you ever lose a game?

Did you believe it was everyone else's fault but yours?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Dog-eat-dog is what ALPA has created and is perpetuating. Wait to see what happens the first time ALPA bluffs a work action. My bet is management will call it, and ALPA will not be willing to go through with it. When you have been corrupt, gutless, and pissed members off by the thousands, there would be no way to predict the results or guarantee unity. Boys and girls, labor has already lost. The only thing John Praeter and ALPA are worried about it, is holding it together and the dues continuing to roll in. Praeter is 56, or 57 and only needs to keep things together for another 3 years to have collected his 1.7 million in salary from ALPA, his pension and Continental which didn't get terminated and hes done. If anyone thinks he is interested in looking any further down the road than 3 years and where the profession is going to end up, people are fooling themselves. And the ALPA attorneys, staffers, secretaries, could give a rats a$$ what the life of pilot is like anymore. All they care about is cash flow, and they will try to make up dues in headcount, with what has been lost by ALPA's piss poor stewardship of the welfare of its members.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on these points. However I find it rather convenient to blame ALPA now that the Nic has come about. My comments regarding a dog-eat-dog world is centered on the fact that you (AAA east) have been fight with someone in your own ranks for decades!!! Pretty sad really. Of course now you seem to be united (in your minds) over the Nic. Once again though you are now fighting fellow pilots...

USAPA could be a great thing! But you will never succeed in making it great when you alienate a large portion of those you wish to represent. Believe me the west is no loyal ALPA adherent as a whole... Unfortunately it seems as though the Nic is a deal breaker for both sides...

BTW I ran into a few crews at the Holiday Inn at Logan in the "crew room." I have to admit I did not take any measures to strike up a conversation but it did seem rather chilly in there. Should I have taken the time to say hello? Am I or we really that shallow...?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

To appease the regionals....................

If USAirways should pull out of ALPA. The balance of power will shift and I bet the regionals will get what they tried back then. I see a domino effect for Prater and national if ALPA becomes RALPA. The Regional Air line Pilots Association. Sounds too good to be true.