AWA ALPA Thread 10/12 to 10/18

[EastUS]

Did you ever play team sports?

Did you ever lose a game?

Did you believe it was everyone else's fault but yours?

1) For longer than you've been alive.

2) Yes. Attempts to steal from others doesn't constitue any "game" in my mind in any case.

3) Hardly. In the case of Alpo...it's an issue of small, and generally isolated cliques of but few whom I properly feel to be at fault. The inherent structure of the "union" isn't compatible with ready access for the membership to any decision making process. WTF's your "point"?

PS: "Once again though you are now fighting fellow pilots..." See 2) above. Any wishing to unjustly take from my day to day comrades aren't any "fellow" anything. That addresses both the Alpoid crowd and west folk who'd wish to do such. Paint a red star, Iraqi flag, or any historically appropriate national emblem on any given plane and said "fellow pilot" is instantly termed a "target" in the real world, whenever such is appropriate.

 

[Tiger 1050]

WTF's your "point"?

If you can't see my point then I suppose I'm wasting both of our time... Either way there is not much I can do but say hi if we ever meet. See ya around.

 

[767jetz]

Anyone on the West side have an update on the JNC?

It's been very quiet lately. Nothing but bickering back and forth between the usual suspects on the East ALPA thread.

 

[EastUS]

Anyone on the West side have an update on the JNC?

It's been very quiet lately. Nothing but bickering back and forth between the usual suspects on the East ALPA thread.

Hmmm. Never bashfull when always speaking for "the vast majority of pilots", an Alpo proponent of the first order, and you've held that you've Prater's ear as well....but zero clue here jetz?...None at all? Interesting.

Truly; A never ending source of amusement.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Anyone on the West side have an update on the JNC?

It's been very quiet lately. Nothing but bickering back and forth between the usual suspects on the East ALPA thread.

Well, one suspect has been sent to the company cornfield - permanently. They [the company] are already starting to take 'prisoners' to fill their house of cards for contract negtiations. Not only that, this 'company cornfield banishment' has solidified the East pilots even more. Things are about to get really interesting.

Later,
Eye

 

[700UW]

any update on CM?

 

[luvn737s]

What's truly ironic is that an in-house union would probably have bipartisan support if the main platform was not simply to screw the minority. If USAPA came out and said they would defend the Nicolau decision and eliminate all restrictions on membership and officer prequalifications (discrimination) and that they would immediately engage in joint negotiations and if anyone could believe them based on the east's previous track record with integrity, then there could be some shed of hope for USAPA.

Oh, and if the moon was in the 7th house and Jupiter aligned with Mars....

 

[AWA320]

any update on CM?

I have HEARD terminated but still trying to confirm. I wish to state right up front
even though I don't care for his politics this move by the company was not cool at all!!!

 

[ableoneable]

The latest rumor is that the company has approached the west group about section six discussions regarding wide body pay rates. It seems management is interested in the west pilot group flying wide bodies outside of a joint contract. It is possible that the only reason this is happening is that management does not see JNC talks going anywhere and they want to be able to start placing aircraft in bases of their choice.

I suspect that if the west starts flying new delivery wide bodes the east will go insane.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I have HEARD terminated but still trying to confirm. I wish to state right up front
even though I don't care for his politics this move by the company was not cool at all!!!

Yup. Letter was delivered. Very sad, and I agree, majorily "uncool." I don't agree with what happened one bit as do a lot of pilots on both sides. Company has started the reindeer games.

Later,
Eye

 

[N924PS]

Yup. Letter was delivered. Very sad, and I agree, majorily "uncool." I don't agree with what happened one bit as do a lot of pilots on both sides. Company has started the reindeer games.

Later,
Eye

What was the official reason for this action?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

What was the official reason for this action?

I really can't say. Hope you understand. I feel for the guy, I truly do. I wouldn't wish what's happening to him on my worst enemy.

Later,
Eye

 

[SkyRat]

Yup. Letter was delivered. Very sad, and I agree, majorily "uncool." I don't agree with what happened one bit as do a lot of pilots on both sides. Company has started the reindeer games.

Later,
Eye

Did CM violate company policy? On what grounds was the suspension/firing? Expressing you point of view is NOT against co. policy, as long as it's done properly. A good labor attorney should help...

I never agreed w/ CM (or U$A320) on one issue, NOT ONE, but if he was terminated wrongfully, I wish him the best of luck.

GL

 

[SkyRat]

October 19, 2007

Captain John H. McIlvenna, Chairman
America West Master Executive Council

Captain Jack Stephan, Chairman
US Airways Master Executive Council

RE: US Airways and America West Joint Negotiating Committee Meeting

Dear John and Jack:

With all the controversy since early May, it’s easy to lose sight of our simple objective: to negotiate a new contract that both pilot groups will approve. As the Executive Council determined last month, the new agreement will include the Nicolau award. But the Executive Council also said that the new agreement must include terms for career protection and that parity and parity plus are a top priority.

In other words, it’s all about putting together a negotiated single agreement that will reverse years of bankruptcy and ATSB concessions and get all US Airways pilots the pay, job security, benefits, work rules, and career protection they deserve. No one is trying to “buy†seniority. ALPA is trying to ensure that both career advancement and economic gains are protected and that families who have suffered under the current contracts can recover from bankruptcy and ATSB hell.

ALPA Merger Policy was discussed, debated, and enacted by pilots like us. When there are problems negotiating a merged collective bargaining agreement, Merger Policy provides for the President to call a meeting of the Joint Negotiating Committee. There plainly are such problems, and I am calling that meeting.

These problems will be solved by ALPA leaders from both pilot groups meeting and talking directly with each other. The two groups have and will continue to have the support of my office and any other ALPA resource necessary. You have used the outside counsel of three labor law and merger firms, the Wilson Center for Public Research, ALPA’s general counsel, and other ALPA negotiating, economic and financial, legal, retirement, and communication experts. Current and retired pilot leaders with vast experience at other airlines and with similar problems have also participated. These resources will continue to be available. With them, there is no reason that we can’t solve these problems if both pilot groups commit to doing so.

To this end, I am convening an expedited internal meeting of the Joint Negotiating Committee in Washington, DC, commencing on October 29, 2007, and concluding on November 6, 2007, or earlier if the work is done. However, I won’t call this a meeting of a blue ribbon panel, or the Rice Committee, or any other special name. It is simply the Joint Negotiating Committee meeting that is provided for in Merger Policy. I expect this committee to roll up its sleeves and get to work on both contract and career protection issues and to do so without asserting positions, demanding sequential treatment of issues, finger-pointing, or threats. No one is prejudiced when all the issues are discussed at the same time. Let’s quit fighting with each other and prepare to do battle with the real enemy across the bargaining table. Each MEC is free to send, and I expect each of you to add, other committee experts to assist with this critically important work. I will appoint facilitators and staff to assist, as necessary, and will use my authority to appoint a JNC chairman should the committee require one to complete its work by November 6.

I will also call the two MECs to meetings at a location to be determined on November 8–9. The purpose of these meetings will be to consider and act on recommendations from the Joint Negotiating Committee and review our preparation for JNC negotiations scheduled for the week of November 12. I expect that we will be prepared for and enter into good-faith bargaining with management that week. Our members deserve and expect that from us.

The Executive Council has directed that the Nicolau award be submitted and defended. While input from both MECs is welcome, the office of the President will comply with the Executive Council’s determinations and submit the award in a way that is consistent with the negotiating timeline outlined and in accordance with ALPA’s past practice. The President’s office will also determine the timing for assuming defense of outstanding litigation in light of the procedural issues now being addressed in the courts. I will not allow ALPA policy and individual rights to be prejudiced by delay in these matters.

After five hours with the AAA MEC last Friday, I detailed two courses of action. I most fervently support ALPA representatives from both pilot groups creating solutions that lead to one strong US Airways ALPA leadership and pilot group.

Finally, let me repeat something that I’ve said several times lately. This is one union. You and your MEC members are elected officers and elected representatives of that union. It’s time for all of us to stand up for our union—the one that built our profession. I fully expect those elected and appointed ALPA representatives and committee members to honor and fulfill their obligations to this union or to step aside.

It’s time to get the job done. You have the financial and fraternal backing of your fellow 55,000 ALPA brothers and sisters from each of our 39 other airlines. I am proud to speak on their behalf and promise you their continued support.

In solidarity,

Captain John H. Prater
President
cc: AAA MEC
AWA MEC
Board of Directors
Executive Board
Executive Council

 

[AWA320]

Did CM violate company policy? On what grounds was the suspension/firing? Expressing you point of view is NOT against co. policy, as long as it's done properly. A good labor attorney should help...

I never agreed w/ CM (or U$A320) on one issue, NOT ONE, but if he was terminated wrongfully, I wish him the best of luck.

GL

In a way he did, however he holds NO OFFICIAL position thus can not and should not be held accountable for what was only his opinion. Scape goat if you asks me. Like I said could not stand his politics but his being terminated for this BS?? He's got me on his side for that...