AA employees get 4% raises

[MetalMover]

 
If it takes years, that will be our collective decision. Now wouldn't it.

It is not OUR collective decision until we VOTE.
So when the TWU and IAM bicker who has the better contract,,,,,keep in mind the TWU outnumbers the IAM at least twofold were an unacceptable contract be brought for a vote.

 

[MetalMover]

Maybe as INSANE as you might think this sounds, they're trying to make peace with us? Then why not give the 4% to all workers?
 
Yes this is a business though and business still has to be factored in. Good business absolutely means having a happy and invested workforce. When I hired on it did seem like people were happier and we joked around a lot more and because of that I think we cared more also.  It's kind of hard to be happy having suffered major concessions such as paycuts, loss of vacation, loss of sick days, loss of holidays....well you know the rest!

WE have to understand that we are not going to get back everything we want in one fell swoop. We also have to hope that we elected people to represent and negotiate for us that also understand this. If they start rattling off about the past and 2003 again you might as well through up your hands, put on your hat and go take a long walk cause then it really will take forever. You do realize that every concession we gave will have become a bargaining chip all over again? We will never get back EVERYTHING we loss whether it be one fell swoop or many minute swoops. Throwing cash at us is always cheaper than the benefits to a company. That is why $$ is being given in the form of raises. When contractile comes, try getting back two weeks vacation and double time and 5 holidays and 7 sick days.....

I just wonder when we stop being angry and screaming at the world for our lot in life. That just takes way too much energy for me personally. All workgroups took concessions, but no group has taken the hit as much as maintenance. The anger will not dissipate anytime soon.

 

[NYer]

It is not OUR collective decision until we VOTE.
So when the TWU and IAM bicker who has the better contract,,,,,keep in mind the TWU outnumbers the IAM at least twofold were an unacceptable contract be brought for a vote.

 
You don't need the IAM to vote no. The TWU has been very good at that, regardless of the situation.

 

[MetalMover]

 
You don't need the IAM to vote no. The TWU has been very good at that, regardless of the situation.

Keep in mind that there are IAM members who do not want this alliance. But what they are hoping the NMB does is give ONLY a choice of ALLIANCE or NO UNION.

 

[NYer]

Keep in mind that there are IAM members who do not want this alliance. But what they are hoping the NMB does is give ONLY a choice of ALLIANCE or NO UNION.

 
There may be a few, but I don't believe most that have seniority will take a chance to disrupt their pension accrual and the medical benefits loss.

 

[MetalMover]

 
There may be a few, but I don't believe most that have seniority will take a chance to disrupt their pension accrual and the medical benefits loss.

You mean their IAMPNF? Supposedly it is untouchable.

 

[700UW]

If they are no longer IAM members at the New AA the wont be getting any contributions to their IAMNPF, this has been covered over and over.

 

[toroshark]

If it takes years, that will be our collective decision. Now wouldn't it.

Actually no it wont be as cut and dry our collective decision! If the jcba brought back to the Membership by the Alliance forces us into the IAMPF and/or a host of other changes that are collectively seen as bad for the MEMBERSHIP but good for the Alliance and their struggle to glean as much dues as possible, it will be the failure of the Alliance! But you dont care do you Nyer? As long as your dues collecting corporations masquerading as a union is satiated then you will be happy. Its not too late to do the right thing! Dump this alliance! Whomever gets the most votes takes all! Then we can start to address the issues with AA. Now go back like the lackey you appear to be and tell it to your masters. Its people like you selling everybody and everyone out that screwed my union up in the first place.

 

[MetalMover]

If they are no longer IAM members at the New AA the wont be getting any contributions to their IAMNPF, this has been covered over and over.

In the event the alliance gets shot down, they can kiss that goodbye if an election was only between the IAM and TWU....shear numbers would be in TWUs favor, As much as I dislike the TWU, I would not vote for the IAM just to prove a point. 
Maybe the company will throw in another 4% in if we agree to give up OUR pension and join the IAMPNF.

 

[Real tired]

In the event the alliance gets shot down, they can kiss that goodbye if an election was only between the IAM and TWU....shear numbers would be in TWUs favor, As much as I dislike the TWU, I would not vote for the IAM just to prove a point. 
Maybe the company will throw in another 4% in if we agree to give up OUR pension and join the IAMPNF.

If that was the case, you wouldn't "give up" your pension to join the IAMNPF.
 
Most likely, only your 401k match money.

 

[NYer]

Actually no it wont be as cut and dry our collective decision! If the jcba brought back to the Membership by the Alliance forces us into the IAMPF and/or a host of other changes that are collectively seen as bad for the MEMBERSHIP but good for the Alliance and their struggle to glean as much dues as possible, it will be the failure of the Alliance! But you dont care do you Nyer? As long as your dues collecting corporations masquerading as a union is satiated then you will be happy. Its not too late to do the right thing! Dump this alliance! Whomever gets the most votes takes all! Then we can start to address the issues with AA. Now go back like the lackey you appear to be and tell it to your masters. Its people like you selling everybody and everyone out that screwed my union up in the first place.

 
I guess you haven't read the Association agreement or you wouldn't be concerned about being "forced" into the IAMPF. That's a covered topic in the agreement and forcing people is not one of the options.
 
But, if you insist you'll be forced into the IAMPF you can always vote no. There are some leaders that believe that's the best way to get leverage and force a good deal. So, yes, you have a choice it's just that other might not make the same choice as yourself.

 

[MetalMover]

If that was the case, you wouldn't "give up" your pension to join the IAMNPF.
 
Most likely, only your 401k match money.

thanks.. that is what i meant to say...that the 401k match might be offered up for sacrifice in exchange for a "raise"

 

[MetalMover]

 
I guess you haven't read the Association agreement or you wouldn't be concerned about being "forced" into the IAMPF. That's a covered topic in the agreement and forcing people is not one of the options.
 
But, if you insist you'll be forced into the IAMPF you can always vote no. There are some leaders that believe that's the best way to get leverage and force a good deal. So, yes, you have a choice it's just that other might not make the same choice as yourself.

true, no one will be "forced,"
but many of us have been burnt before with supposedly "ironclad" agreements in the past.
Another thing, the Q&A of the alliance states we will have a vote. But you can be damn sure that the TWU/IAM want the vote to be two choices and two choices only......ALLIANCE OR NO UNION...rather than ALLIANCE OR NO ALLIANCE.

 

[Zom JFK]

In other words its someone else's fault that you aren't getting what you want while you still give the company everything they want. 
 
The only leverage the Union Leadership has the actions of their members. 
 
There are things you can do that are legal. Follow IAW, refuse OT every now and then, and don't go above and beyond for below and behind. Give them what they give you, exercise discretionary effort, the least amount possible. 
 
Its so much easier to say what "The Union Leadership" needs to do while you sit back and criticize, complain and lick the bosses boots day in and day out. 

 
What an excellent post. No wonder these guys get so mad at you. The truth hurts.

 

[toroshark]

I guess you haven't read the Association agreement or you wouldn't be concerned about being "forced" into the IAMPF. That's a covered topic in the agreement and forcing people is not one of the options.
 
But, if you insist you'll be forced into the IAMPF you can always vote no. There are some leaders that believe that's the best way to get leverage and force a good deal. So, yes, you have a choice it's just that other might not make the same choice as yourself.

You guessed wrong. I have read the Alliance agreement. What guarantees that the Membership ever sees a Jcba that allows those with a matching 401k the ability to keep it? Where is it written that our frozen AA pensions cannot be thrown into the IAMPF as part of a negotiated Jcba. If the IAM chairs the Alliance for the first 2 years what makes you think the Membership will ever see a T/A that doesn't possess such provisions? With the strong armed tactics the TWU and IAM are utilizing to get this alliance through only a fool or a alliance spokesperson would believe these things could not happen.