AA employees get 4% raises

[NYer]

Our SK days are contractual. Non-union folks are essentially employees at will. Was the 4% given to the F/A's in their contract? NO! It was given because they have a RATIFIED agreement. It was given AFTER the fact. 
Oh btw, don't be too sure that when OUR turn comes, they won't ask for the sick time, ala the non-union folks. Because if you think the company is going to give us a "industry leading contract" WITHOUT giving anything up, I think you are sadly mistaken.

 
Giving up something like what?
 
Pay is also contractual, so in your view it is OK for them to give you something like pay rates, outside of collective bargaining, but it's not OK to take away anything because it is contractual?

 

[700UW]

You just don't get it an you never will because you have no education or a business degree. Less competition equals more profits because businesses aren't undercutting eachother for $$. ALL airlines will be turning profits from now on because the industry has consolidated. This was DP goal from the beginning.when the he merged Awa/US.

You dont get it at all.
 
I have plenty of education and experience, but I wont attack you like you have tried to attack me.
 
One war, one crash, one highjacking, one outbreak of a worldwide disease (SARS), remember that, OPEC all effect profits.
 
In the past 20 years, there have been more unprofitable years than profitable.
 
AA, US (twice) DL, NW, UA (in bankruptcy for years, ) CO, all have filed chapter 11, yep the industry is so solid.
 
Maybe you should educate yourself on the history of the industry, its cyclical, always has been and always will be, if it wasnt for chapter 11, you wouldnt even have any of these airlines left in business.
 
More airlines have failed in the past 20 years than have succeeded, and there will always be someone with cash to start an airline to take on the legacies.
 
Can you apply for a loan or a mortgage with the promise to the bank or lender that you will get profit sharing?
 
Nope, its all about cash in hand, and myself and others would rather have a guaranteed wage every week over a promise of profit sharing.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Well. That really doesn't change anything if No Alliance is picked. We'd be in the same pickle we are today.

Hardly.
If the IAM had done what they should have and backed away, and let the larger Union be the one, just like the FAs and Pilots, we would be much much farther down the road.

It's nothing but pure unadaulterated greed from both unions that have this BS alliance even being considered.

Nothing about the alliance is about furthering the betterment of the members and all about keeping the union dues flowing.

It's real simple, give us a ballot that says IAM or TWU or Alliance or no Union. Highest percentage of votes wins, we all know how that will end.

 

[700UW]

And you all complain about the TWU, and whine about your CBA now, what will change?
 
Nothing, you do know what the definition of insanity is right?
 
Doing the same behavior over and over an expecting different results.
 
Why are you treated as a second class citizen compared to Title 1?
 
At US there are no title one or two, everyone is a mechanic.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Last time I checked, US is a page in history.

 

[NYer]

Yes I do. 
 
How much is the TWU plan underfunded? 20%? 
 
Our plan may be underfunded based on the fact that we can retire at 60 with a full pension and only take a 3% hit for each year prior to 60, the IAM plan is retire at 65 and 4.8% reduction for each year prior to 65 and a prohibition on working and collecting a pension. All of the IAMNPF conditions lower the amount of funding required to meet their obligations, so if our pensions are transferred to the IAMNPF its very likely there is more than enough in our AA plan to cover the obligations through the IAMNPF  plan. --You have already accrued under your plan and that can't be changed after the fact. If the IAM takes over your pension they have to pay your accrual and since the plans are underfunded that means the IAM, not the airline, will have to fund the difference.
 
According to what I've read each year they roll back normal retirement saves the plan around 6.5%, so by rolling back normal retirement from 60 to 65 the plan would save roughly 35%, roughly because it doesn't reach100%. For instance when they rolled Social Security back to 67 from 65 those who fall under the 67 rule effectively lost 13% of their Social Security Pension.
 
So by sliding our pension into the IAMNPF the company could actually see their liability decrease by hundreds of millions of dollars. Of course we would all become stuck here till we die because we cant retire and work somewhere else to replace the retiree medical we lost but of course you know all that yet come here and still keep pushing the same lies claiming that the IAMNPF would not want the Hundreds of millions that are sitting in the AA pension plan because its underfunded.
 
The fact is that it was already agreed to that the Association will seek to have us all in the IAMNPF. --The fact is that the TWU agreed to support the IAM in their retention of the IAMPF, and to allow them to continue that plan even if the TWU Members are not participants.
 
They have not been clear as far as whether or not the intent is to have our AA pensions rolled into the IAMNPF but with the average age being around 55 we would see very little benefit with just 10 years in the plan vs the 5.5% match, with 20% OT, in a portable plan that would allow us to retire, collect our AA pension and work somewhere else with the ease of mind that goes with getting a pension check every month in addition to whatever we earn. --Aside from the conspiracy theorist on this blog, there has been absolutely no talk of the pensions rolling over into the IAM Plan. It makes good theater for those that don't support and rather do away with the Association, but like most of your other theories...this will also pass into the fantasy category.
 
Some will claim that our pensions are protected. And technically they are, but early retirement is considered a perk and all the protections are based on the value of the pension at age 65. So it can be changed if you have not actually retired. If you retired at 55 before they changed the plan, then you are protected but if you are working and over 55 when they changed the plan then your ability to retire early is not protected. They can change the plan as long as the actuarial dollar value at age 65 does not change. --Well, at least you agree that they are protected, even though you'd only go as far as "technically."

 

[700UW]

Last time I checked, US is a page in history.

Funny, the FAA still has US as an active airline, PMUS planes fly under US' SOC, not PMAA, and PMUS planes are flown by PMUS pilots and all scheduled maintenance is done by PMUS mechanics, not PMAA.
 
Last time I checked Fleet, Maintenance, CSA, RES and US Pilots are still under their own CBAs, not a JCBA.
 
So US does exist, try again.
 
Care to find a real argument to debate with?

 

[CMH_GSE]

Look, I get it, you're advocating for the IAM.
They will have to be dragged kicking and screaming from the property, apparently.

Nobody wants the alliance, NOBODY.

The majority of the mechanics want NOTHING to do with the IAM.

If we ever get to vote on it, the IAM will take their rightful place in the history books.

 

[700UW]

Keep going off on tangents and things that have nothing to do with the thread.
 
Do you realize the GSE mechanics AT HP made $8 less an hour under the IBT than they did with the IAM?
 
No title 2 at US, GSE mechanics at HP at the time of the merger with US got an $8 an hour raise.
 
So you have polled all the mechanics at US and AA and tallied the results?
 
And yet you all moan and complain about the TWU and yet you would stay with them, lol.
 
Some mechanics will never be happy.

 

[NYer]

You just don't get it an you never will because you have no education or a business degree. Less competition equals more profits because businesses aren't undercutting eachother for $$. ALL airlines will be turning profits from now on because the industry has consolidated. This was DP goal from the beginning.when the he merged Awa/US.

 
Less competition doesn't equal more profits. Good grief.
 
Less costs equal more profits.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You dont get it at all.
 
I have plenty of education and experience, but I wont attack you like you have tried to attack me.
 
One war, one crash, one highjacking, one outbreak of a worldwide disease (SARS), remember that, OPEC all effect profits.
 
In the past 20 years, there have been more unprofitable years than profitable.
 
AA, US (twice) DL, NW, UA (in bankruptcy for years, ) CO, all have filed chapter 11, yep the industry is so solid.
 
Maybe you should educate yourself on the history of the industry, its cyclical, always has been and always will be, if it wasnt for chapter 11, you wouldnt even have any of these airlines left in business.
 
More airlines have failed in the past 20 years than have succeeded, and there will always be someone with cash to start an airline to take on the legacies.
 
Can you apply for a loan or a mortgage with the promise to the bank or lender that you will get profit sharing?
 
Nope, its all about cash in hand, and myself and others would rather have a guaranteed wage every week over a promise of profit sharing.

and yet you delight in fear mongering despite evidence that WN has been consistently profitable and has paid profit sharing longer than any US airline.

Instead of believing that the rest of the industry has used BK to change the basic structure and principles of the way airlines are run to ensure they can do what WN has achieved, you want to harp on the fear of losing money - despite the evidence that employees who have profit sharing make more than their peers who do not.

 

[700UW]

And WN doesnt use the same businsess model as legacies, now do they?
 
And they parked planes even new deliveries after 9/11 and offered early outs.
 
WN has had great management over the years with a great business plan.
 
Has DL, AA, US, UA, CO, NW or any other legacy posted profits for over 25 years straight?
 
The proof is in the facts, no legacy has and had to use Chapter 11 to remain in business.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
And WN is having its problems as you have stated time after time.
 
If you are going to be a liar you better have a good memory, and you dont.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Talk about going off on tangents, please, shut the front door.

Believe me, you're not making the case, it won't even be close once we vote.

TWU has its own share of issues, but for right now, if Vegas was handicapping , they would be the heavy favorite.

You might think it would be better your way, not nearly enough will be willing to try the beautiful new utopia of unionism.

I've already said elsewhere on these boards, TWU will likely be the chosen Union, buying them about a year, maybe less to get a contract that keeps the majority happy.
If they fail, they will likely be replaced.

You can hate the process, it is what it is.

 

[NYer]

Hardly.
If the IAM had done what they should have and backed away, and let the larger Union be the one, just like the FAs and Pilots, we would be much much farther down the road.

It's nothing but pure unadaulterated greed from both unions that have this BS alliance even being considered.

Nothing about the alliance is about furthering the betterment of the members and all about keeping the union dues flowing.

It's real simple, give us a ballot that says IAM or TWU or Alliance or no Union. Highest percentage of votes wins, we all know how that will end.

 
No, we don't know how that will end.

 

[dfw gen]

 
Well. That really doesn't change anything if No Alliance is picked. We'd be in the same pickle we are today.

actually worst because then I have the twu negotiationing for me again. Not sure I can afford that