Not so sure about that. US was the first in BK, and 11 years later they are still at the bottom right next to us. They have not done a good Job at US. Yes their work rules and benefits are better but the pay sucks. UA mechs have made a better recovery than mechs at US or AA. Lets see how they do over the next six months, we should support them any way we can as far as a release and possible strike because a failure for any mechanic group is a failure for the profession regardless of what union they have. The only ones who stand to gain from the failure of any mechanic group are the Airlines and the false business unionists who have taken over much of the labor movement who tell us its better to give everything away than fight for anything as they keep their six figure salaries and benefits paid for with our dues.
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AA hires lawyer in bed with TWU
- Thread starter chellow
- Start date
Not so sure about that. US was the first in BK, and 11 years later they are still at the bottom right next to us. They have not done a good Job at US. Yes their work rules and benefits are better but the pay sucks. UA mechs have made a better recovery than mechs at US or AA. Lets see how they do over the next six months, we should support them any way we can as far as a release and possible strike because a failure for any mechanic group is a failure for the profession regardless of what union they have. The only ones who stand to gain from the failure of any mechanic group are the Airlines and the false business unionists who have taken over much of the labor movement who tell us its better to give everything away than fight for anything as they keep their six figure salaries and benefits paid for with our dues.
Are you saying that in 2002 you agreed to a 10 year deal? Excuses are no substitute for results, and the results at US are not good. Better than AA, but not good.
Its the first Section six negotiations since 2002, but somewhere along the way you agreed to extend what you had till now. Thats my concern with the upcoming "harmonization" negotiations, that we could end up with yet another extension dragging what we have beyond 2018. Call it what you want its still a sell out where you guys suffered for a very long time, like us, you could have said NO and went to section 6 prior to this. UAL went through BK, a merger, three Unions and still they are doing a lot better than either US or AA and have been doing better for several years.
- Banned
- #34
In 2002 we didnt agree to anything, we were in concessionary bargaining and in bankruptcy, we voted down the offer the company threw at us and voted it in later.
The company threatened to shut down in November and each union came to concessions again.
In 2004 US filed bankruptcy again and we never reached an agreement and our CBA was abrogated and the judge made us vote on the final offer and it was ratified.
After the merger there was a transition agreement to merge the East and West, it came with some improvements.
You do realize US filed bankruptcy in 2002 and again in 2004 and there hasnt been normal section 6 negotiations since 1995, which resulted in an agreement in 1999.
This is the first Section 6 since both bankruptcy case.
Nothing was agreed to extend any chapter 11 CBA.
The company threatened to shut down in November and each union came to concessions again.
In 2004 US filed bankruptcy again and we never reached an agreement and our CBA was abrogated and the judge made us vote on the final offer and it was ratified.
After the merger there was a transition agreement to merge the East and West, it came with some improvements.
You do realize US filed bankruptcy in 2002 and again in 2004 and there hasnt been normal section 6 negotiations since 1995, which resulted in an agreement in 1999.
This is the first Section 6 since both bankruptcy case.
Nothing was agreed to extend any chapter 11 CBA.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Bob
I am in agreement with you when it comes to supporting the mechanics at another carrier. I also walked with the NWA guys during their negotiations as well as when they were on strike. We got Money due to their sacrifices
If the IAM walks we should support them even though they did NOT support the AMFA members at NWA. THE IAM SCABBED. The other unions on the NWA property did as well. So I am not just talking about the IAM.
When I compaired the IAM to the TWU and IBT the IAM is better. I was IAM at one time with Eastern.
We all know how bad the TWU is and with the IBT it's more dues for less representation with lies and corruption.
IAM is the lesser of the three evils. (industrial unions)
AMFA at AA in 2013
What is the difference between "voted it in" "Ratified" and "agreed to"?
You "voted in" -accepted, the concessions in 2002.
You "ratified" -accepted, more concessions in 2004.
You voted in a merger transition agreement as well right?
Did the transition agreement extend the terms of the 2004 agreement? So for minor improvements you extended the bulk of the concessions to the present, now 11 years.
You had the option to vote NO at least three times but every time either voted it in or ratified the offer, in other words you accepted it. You could have let the judge abrogate and then assert your rights as Union workers back in 2002. At that point striking was still not ruled on, in fact the pilots at Continental had already set precedence back in 1983. I'll admit that more so than any other carrier there was a real risk that US would have liquidated, if you guys had chosen that route, and management would have been stunned and the carnage would have stopped then and there, but once management smelled blood in the water and how weak the labor movement was it became a frenzy across the industry that we still have not recovered from.
- Banned
- #37
Section 1113 did not exist in 1983, there is no precedent set.
Lorenzo didnt even have to negotiate with the unions in 1983, and he didnt every CBA and vendor contract was treated the same.
I have all ready explained this to you and if there was a precedent set then how come the NW FAs werent allowed to strike?
An agreement is different than a final offer and you know that.
Prior to Section 1113 being made into law, an airline did not have to negotiate with its unions for an abrogation.
Lorenzo didnt even have to negotiate with the unions in 1983, and he didnt every CBA and vendor contract was treated the same.
I have all ready explained this to you and if there was a precedent set then how come the NW FAs werent allowed to strike?
An agreement is different than a final offer and you know that.
Prior to Section 1113 being made into law, an airline did not have to negotiate with its unions for an abrogation.
What exactly does 1113 have to do with our right to strike? 1113 applies to all labor contracts and stipulates that the debtor has to try and make a deal, not just Airlines, and nobody else lost the right to strike.
The NWA FAs were not allowed to strike because the Judges F%$&$#d up and came up with an absurd ruling that not even EO or FWAAA can defend other than saying"Thats how they ruled". They did this because they knew they would get away with it because the labor movement was weak and would do nothing about it. We should have shut the country down. The ruling treats Airline workers as second class citizens and effectively allows the court to annul our contracts and say that we never had one, they did this to get around the language of the RLA which clearly allows us to strike if the company has our contract abrogated, and BK is the only way they could do that, even back when the RLA was written. It denies us the protections of the RLA and the freedoms and rights of the NLRA. Its an abomination that the labor movement has let stand unchallenged and is simply an invitation for more abuse from our corporate controlled judiciary.
- Banned
- #39
Actually the RLA section 1167 that addresses strikes and bankruptcy was written to only apply to railroads and not the airlines.
The NWA FAs did challenge it to the Federal Appeals court and lost it didnt go to SCOTUS as no one would know if they would hear it and they only take cases starting in October.
The NWA FAs did challenge it to the Federal Appeals court and lost it didnt go to SCOTUS as no one would know if they would hear it and they only take cases starting in October.
1167 is part of the BK code not the RLA. Once again a Judge determined that it only applied to Rails even though it clearly says Railway Labor act. Once again the Labor movement did nothing.Why would the law only apply to the rails, please explain the logic of that.
The NWA FA challenged the Injunction, not the ruling that made us second class citizens, the appeals court threw out the argument the Judge who rubber stamped the injunction used in giving it because it was even more ridiculous than the convoluted argument the appellate court came up with.
The NWA FAs should have gone to the Supreme Court and to get it on a fast track the Unions should have shut the country down until we were given equal protections under the law, pick one, either the RLA or the NLRA, not just the fanciful convoluted musings of obviously corrupt judges who no doubt have been rewarded for what they did.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,945
- 9,372
Not quite true... Even if you're just looking at the predecessor airlines in question here, the bar was already being set lower by the time US's 2002 bankruptcy rolled around.
PA and EA were in bankruptcy in 1991, HP was in bankruptcy from 1991 to 1994. TW was in bankrupcty in 1992-1993, and again in 1995, and finally, in 2001. US was in bankruptcy in 2002 and again in 2004.
http://www.thefreeli...ke.-a0125572458
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-©1997-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD
US Airways workers represented by the Communications Workers of America (CWA) union have voted in favour of allowing the union's president to call a strike if the airline voids the union's contract.
The CWA represents 6,000 ticket, reservation and gate agents at US Airways, the majority of whom voted to allow CWA President Morton Bahr to order a strike and select a strike date if US Airways cancels the union's contract through the bankruptcy courts.
CWA Board Clears the Way for Possible Strike By US Airways Passenger Service Agents
11/30/2004
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Communications Workers of America's national executive board voted unanimously to authorize strike action by 6,000 passenger service agents against US Airways, clearing the way for CWA's president to set a strike date.
The passenger agents earlier this month voted by 86 percent to authorize a strike against the airline in a membership referendum.
Meanwhile, CWA negotiators are continuing to meet this week with US Airways management in an attempt to reach a new labor settlement.
The airline has demanded devastating pay and benefit concessions from the agents and has petitioned the bankruptcy judge to throw out their union contract.
Abrogation of the contract would allow the agents to strike or engage in other job actions.
Management files to reject the contracts of passenger service, flight attendants, mechanics and ramp, and also files to terminate all pension plans...
11-13-04
30 minutes before meeting to receive a CWA proposal on Friday, management notified us that they have filed in bankruptcy court to reject our passenger service contract in its entirety, along with those of the flight attendants, rampers and mechanics. They also notified us that they are seeking to terminate our long-frozen pension plan, along with the pension plans of the flight attendants and the mechanics.
At the meeting Friday management could not explain how our frozen plan (which they now claim is $270 million underfunded) could have deteriorated when it was fully funded at the time it was frozen.
CWA will meet with actuaries for the plan to try to get to the bottom of that question.
We continue to present proposals to management to try to reach a fair settlement. At the same time, we have made it clear that we do not agree to management demands to eliminate res and contract the work out.
CWA Local Officers and Staff
Strike authorization vote by US Airways Passenger Service employees passes overwhelmingly: 86% approve, 14% disapprove...
11-10-2004
CWA represented US Airways agents and reps have voted overwhelmingly to authorize a strike or other lawful job action in the event that management imposes concessions through the bankruptcy process without a vote of the employees. With strong showings from all locations and workgroups, the CWA Passenger Service local presidents counted the ballots today at CWA’s national headquarters in Washington, DC.
The final vote tally was 86% in favor of strike authorization and 14% opposed. Full details and explanation of the strike vote authorization process and procedures, including CWA strike benefits, is contained in the letter you received at your home address accompanying your strike authorization ballot.
The CWA local presidents immediately issued this statement: “Thank you, agents and reps, for giving us this show of strength and determination. We pledge to make every effort to reach a reasonable settlement with management – a settlement that can be ratified by a vote of the employees. Thank you for support.”
We must find a way to stop management's repeated raids on our paychecks. CWA local officers, staff, attorneys and analysts are planning our strategy for the immediate future. That strategy will not work without your participation. When you are contacted, please do your part to help save our passenger service careers.
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-©1997-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD
US Airways workers represented by the Communications Workers of America (CWA) union have voted in favour of allowing the union's president to call a strike if the airline voids the union's contract.
The CWA represents 6,000 ticket, reservation and gate agents at US Airways, the majority of whom voted to allow CWA President Morton Bahr to order a strike and select a strike date if US Airways cancels the union's contract through the bankruptcy courts.
CWA Board Clears the Way for Possible Strike By US Airways Passenger Service Agents
11/30/2004
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Communications Workers of America's national executive board voted unanimously to authorize strike action by 6,000 passenger service agents against US Airways, clearing the way for CWA's president to set a strike date.
The passenger agents earlier this month voted by 86 percent to authorize a strike against the airline in a membership referendum.
Meanwhile, CWA negotiators are continuing to meet this week with US Airways management in an attempt to reach a new labor settlement.
The airline has demanded devastating pay and benefit concessions from the agents and has petitioned the bankruptcy judge to throw out their union contract.
Abrogation of the contract would allow the agents to strike or engage in other job actions.
Management files to reject the contracts of passenger service, flight attendants, mechanics and ramp, and also files to terminate all pension plans...
11-13-04
30 minutes before meeting to receive a CWA proposal on Friday, management notified us that they have filed in bankruptcy court to reject our passenger service contract in its entirety, along with those of the flight attendants, rampers and mechanics. They also notified us that they are seeking to terminate our long-frozen pension plan, along with the pension plans of the flight attendants and the mechanics.
At the meeting Friday management could not explain how our frozen plan (which they now claim is $270 million underfunded) could have deteriorated when it was fully funded at the time it was frozen.
CWA will meet with actuaries for the plan to try to get to the bottom of that question.
We continue to present proposals to management to try to reach a fair settlement. At the same time, we have made it clear that we do not agree to management demands to eliminate res and contract the work out.
CWA Local Officers and Staff
Strike authorization vote by US Airways Passenger Service employees passes overwhelmingly: 86% approve, 14% disapprove...
11-10-2004
CWA represented US Airways agents and reps have voted overwhelmingly to authorize a strike or other lawful job action in the event that management imposes concessions through the bankruptcy process without a vote of the employees. With strong showings from all locations and workgroups, the CWA Passenger Service local presidents counted the ballots today at CWA’s national headquarters in Washington, DC.
The final vote tally was 86% in favor of strike authorization and 14% opposed. Full details and explanation of the strike vote authorization process and procedures, including CWA strike benefits, is contained in the letter you received at your home address accompanying your strike authorization ballot.
The CWA local presidents immediately issued this statement: “Thank you, agents and reps, for giving us this show of strength and determination. We pledge to make every effort to reach a reasonable settlement with management – a settlement that can be ratified by a vote of the employees. Thank you for support.”
We must find a way to stop management's repeated raids on our paychecks. CWA local officers, staff, attorneys and analysts are planning our strategy for the immediate future. That strategy will not work without your participation. When you are contacted, please do your part to help save our passenger service careers.
