AA employees get 4% raises

[Overspeed]

Did Parker say it was %4 in addition to whatever the TWU negotiates? What if the 591 dream team gets us WN plus 10% top rate? Will Parker kick in with the 4% then?
 
"For groups who have not yet reached ratified joint contracts, they will now see larger increases when those joint ratified contracts are achieved." D. Parker

 

[WeAAsles]

Did Parker say it was %4 in addition to whatever the TWU negotiates? What if the 591 dream team gets us WN plus 10% top rate? Will Parker kick in with the 4% then?
 
"For groups who have not yet reached ratified joint contracts, they will now see larger increases when those joint ratified contracts are achieved." D. Parker

The aim and enemy is Delta. I really believe that Parker is out for blood on Anderson after they dismissed his overture and mocked him all those years ago. This is personal almost as much as it's about business.

He also by doling out all these raises and citing Delta constantly may help to achieve the one thing they hate the most. ORGANIZE Delta Airlines. He's far from stupid.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Did Parker say it was %4 in addition to whatever the TWU negotiates? What if the 591 dream team gets us WN plus 10% top rate? Will Parker kick in with the 4% then?
 
"For groups who have not yet reached ratified joint contracts, they will now see larger increases when those joint ratified contracts are achieved." D. Parker

We'll see what Parker considers "Larger increases".  Of course not any time soon.

 

[NYer]

Funny thing....AA once had 12000+ mechanics....Now' we're down to mid 7000's.....
But NYer likes to keep repeating only AMFA's loss of jobs.

 
Not "only," just "and"

 

[NYer]

I am going to ask this again and again......What if negotiations take years?  Will it be retro.
All I keep hearing from you, NYer and WeAAsles is that we are going to get ours......What if it takes years? Will you still be content waiting?

 
If it takes years, that will be our collective decision. Now wouldn't it.

 

[NYer]

You said ALL YOU WHINERS replying to my post. Sounded like the STFU was for me....
Anyways.Why I keep harping on the fact that negotiations could take years and the 4% that has a few people here giggly and giddy is because no one is considering the complexity of negotiations. The few people here hope the TWU "expedites" negotiations so they can get it on the 4% sooner rather than later. What they have not considered is the fact that if this BS alliance goes through, the TWU and IAM have different contracts. They each are going want to keep what they have. That is impossible. The bickering and in-fighting will drag this out. 
If it does drag out. all the 4%ers are not going to be happy campers.

 
What's could really drag it out is the fact that the sides haven't even been meeting to get their issues addressed now rather than when the window to negotiations start. It already looks like it will be a drawn out process for some title groups.
 
Other groups were already in the negotiations since they don't have to deal with the NMB issues but the TWU told them to stop.

 

[NYer]

You don't see that unfairness of this all? The raise was given to SOME because a successful 2014. Why are those who do not have a ratified JCBA being excluded?
If negotiations go on for any extended length of time and there is NO retro, then we will have been treated unfairly. No where in the company letters regarding this raise does it say RETRO.

 
Their being excluded because it is a voluntary move outside of collective bargaining and they set the process by which they want to pay it.
 
They took the SK day accruals from the non-union folks in 2015, is it unfair they didn't take ours too? Should we stand in solidarity with the others that lost that and either protest their loss or should we sacrifice our accrual. I mean it isn't fair they lost theirs and we kept ours, right?

 

[dfw gen]

Nyer weasel and overspend how much is the twu paying you guys to spin this crap? Or is it the company paying you?

 

[dfw gen]

What really ironic is that years ago Jim little admitted that the twu used maintenance to advance everyone. The old "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone" .he put us in the position that we have to leave. I'm pretty sure that if there is a vote the majority of maintenance would vote against the twu. That would be unfortunate for fleet service because you would be easy pickings for the company. Once you guys are contracted out it will be maintenance's turn. The only groups they care about are the pilots and flight attendants because they are necessary. That's ok though. Ill be long gone and living happily. I've prepared for it. Hope you have also. Its inevitable the twu has done it to itself.

 

[Bob Owens]

What's ironic is that maintenance brought the twu on the property in the 40's.

No Stores did. And the only Stores thats better paid is WN.
 
They went into negotiations with seven stores clerks, I sat with them as much as I could during Regular negotiations but they didn't have the complications we had in Maintenance, they never split the stores into three groups and played one against the other and they didn't have Fleet Service sitting in and voting which ever way Videtich told them to on the content of the Maintenance contract. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Have some fun here my Brother. Look at each airline and look at how many In House employees they have for each aircraft. That will solve the puzzle for you.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Employees&Productivity.html

Get those numbers down and you can catch up to those other airlines if that's what you want.

Sad when people who claim to be pro-union don't consider employees to be Assets and instead look at them as liabilities. 
 
 
Sad when so called pro-union people agree and repeat the companies lies that if they choose to run their business by controlling the quality of their product in-house they should get a discount for volume from the workers who perform that work and deliver that quality.
 
What the figures you cite lack is specificity, counted among the number of mechanics are positions that the TWU helped AA put in place that are not staffed by A&Ps or similarly High Skilled workers but rather workers that are paid much less than even many of the Domestic MRO's.  
 
For a long time we have seen Overspeed , NYer and other pretenders cite this same lie now we see FSC's citing it as well. The fact is that if we look at line operations we are likely understaffed compared to our peers in the industry, even WN and UPS. Donnelley tried to spin out the UPS numbers by including airacraft that never operated in the US and were subcontractors around the world that UPS hired. I contacted the Pilots Union to get an accurate number of actual UPS Aircraft and the ratio was much closer than the numbers that Donnelly spun out. (Donnelley now works for WN management, so basically he stopped working for AA management and now works for WN management). 
 
Another thing that you guys leave out is quality. Sure Delta, WN and United outsource a lot of Overhaul, and on paper save money, but what MIT misses is the rework and associated costs that are driving up OT and headcount in the line at those carriers, UAL built a new line maintenance Hangar in EWR to help handle the extra work. As Overspeed finally admitted there are no perfect comparators, AA still had higher maintenance costs because AA operated an older fleet, but on the flip side their cost for Aircraft would be lower since they weren't paying off new aircraft. 
 
Our in house Overhaul put out a quality product which meant less breakdowns when they returned to service. 
 
So you come here and say that quality means nothing, and insinuate that if we want the pay of other carriers we should shed headcount, in other words you are saying we are a liability to the company and should discount our labor. What kind of Union man would say that? 
 
You should be ashamed of yourself. 

 

[Bob Owens]

, it's up to our Union leadership to expedite any negotiations. 

In other words its someone else's fault that you aren't getting what you want while you still give the company everything they want. 
 
The only leverage the Union Leadership has the actions of their members. 
 
There are things you can do that are legal. Follow IAW, refuse OT every now and then, and don't go above and beyond for below and behind. Give them what they give you, exercise discretionary effort, the least amount possible. 
 
Its so much easier to say what "The Union Leadership" needs to do while you sit back and criticize, complain and lick the bosses boots day in and day out. 

 

[Bob Owens]

And Metal where did you see ME cheering for a raise I haven't gotten yet? Congratulations to those who have though. I have nothing against anyone accepting it and enjoying it.

So you have nothing against parker using Union Busting tactics? Some Unions get it while others don't? When did Parker announce that this was coming out? Before or after the Unions agreed to support the merger? There is a concept called "notice", that you don't set something in place after the fact and penalize people for something that occurred before notice was given. Parker stated that this was for all employees starting Jan 2015, then stated that only Union employees with a JCBA would get it. Its disingenuous for him to claim he is being fair because he knew when he made this decision that it would be impossible for many Unionized workers to meet that criteria. In our case we have the NMB which has been sitting on this decision for an unheard of long time. 
 
So if the company walked into your break room and picked out two coworkers and decided to pay them more would you be OK with that? If not then why not? 

 

[Bob Owens]

Personally I do not see any reason for the company to get a deal sewn up.  See you in 2018 means no extra raise except for what's contractual.
And since profit sharing has been removed, it appears it would be a win for the company.

And as long as we have people like Bigjets blaming "the Union" in the abstract instead of something he is supposed to be part of, instead of blaming Parker because he wants "the Union" to fight for him while he sits back and says to management "Don't blame me its 'the Union', here will you sign my CS? "Parker wins even more.  

 

[Bob Owens]

Maybe as INSANE as you might think this sounds, they're trying to make peace with us? Yes this is a business though and business still has to be factored in. Good business absolutely means having a happy and invested workforce. When I hired on it did seem like people were happier and we joked around a lot more and because of that I think we cared more also.

WE have to understand that we are not going to get back everything we want in one fell swoop. We also have to hope that we elected people to represent and negotiate for us that also understand this. If they start rattling off about the past and 2003 again you might as well through up your hands, put on your hat and go take a long walk cause then it really will take forever.

I just wonder when we stop being angry and screaming at the world for our lot in life. That just takes way too much energy for me personally. 

Then why the hard line against Profit Sharing? 
 
So you are saying thats its reasonable to give everything up in one fell swoop but not reasonable to get it back in one fell swoop when the Airline is making Billions in profits? And if its give and take then doesn't that in reality mean zero sum? The problem is once again you look at our labor as a liability, like the company simply pays us for showing up and our labor doesn't add value to the operation. Go back to your MIT sheets and look at how revenue per employee has performed over the last ten years, we already gave, we don't have to give more in negotiations.